Stop ear damage!!

Foxxy66

Member
Ok so I was playing with my band last night, and as all gigs are, it was pretty noisy. After the set, my ears were ringing alooot. Blah blah more whining etc :p

So basically, i assume ear damage will happen if I carry on with this. So what is recommended? I've been considering the idea of In Ear Moniters, but I dunno.
Any ideas/recommendations?
 
I guess, but it makes everything quieter, so the drums would sound quieter too. It would just be everything but quieter
 
If you wear the foam-type earplugs, you get the best protection (you could do even better if you put "Mickey Mouse ears" over the top, like the guys on aircraft carrier flight decks), but the high frequencies get disproportionately attenuated. Best for your ears, not so great for how you're hearing the music.

The trade off, for me, is these:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Hearos-High-Fidelity-Series-Ear-Plugs-101338945-i1134130.gc
They don't attenuate as much but the cymbals, vocals, and guitars all still sound good.

Still going to go deaf, but hopefully I'll be dead before that happens!
 
Ok so I was playing with my band last night, and as all gigs are, it was pretty noisy. After the set, my ears were ringing alooot. Blah blah more whining etc :p

So basically, i assume ear damage will happen if I carry on with this. So what is recommended? I've been considering the idea of In Ear Moniters, but I dunno.
Any ideas/recommendations?

If you ears were ringing a lot, you've already done damage.
 
Any protection, even if it's rolled up toilet paper, is better than nothing.
 
Ok so I was playing with my band last night, and as all gigs are, it was pretty noisy. After the set, my ears were ringing alooot. Blah blah more whining etc :p

So basically, i assume ear damage will happen if I carry on with this. So what is recommended? I've been considering the idea of In Ear Moniters, but I dunno.
Any ideas/recommendations?

IEMs. Do it. Your hearing is the most important tool you have. They are worth the money. I regret every day I went without.
 
Guys there are earplugs specifically made for musicians. They reduce the volume and the damage but still allow you to hear all the important sounds. I can't give a brand because they vary from country to country. That ringing in the ears is called tinnitus. It's a sign that you are hurting yourself.

Recent research has shown that any sustained sounds over 85 dB will in the long term do permanent damage. This mostly applies to industry. Rock bands go to over 120 dB. Doesn't take much working out! Recently I read that symphony orchestra musicians are now being given earplugs to protect their hearing. With no hearing, you're out of a job.
Use the plugs.
 
Guys there are earplugs specifically made for musicians. They reduce the volume and the damage but still allow you to hear all the important sounds. I can't give a brand because they vary from country to country. That ringing in the ears is called tinnitus. It's a sign that you are hurting yourself.

Recent research has shown that any sustained sounds over 85 dB will in the long term do permanent damage. This mostly applies to industry. Rock bands go to over 120 dB. Doesn't take much working out! Recently I read that symphony orchestra musicians are now being given earplugs to protect their hearing. With no hearing, you're out of a job.
Use the plugs.

If you need to when using these, you might try putting an SM57 somewhere out in the room just to capture the sound that you will be missing. This weay you can controll the volume of the stage in your ears and have a little more natural sound.

Great topic and not talked about enough!

Mike

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you're lucky. my ears ring constantly. you know how your ears ring after playing loud without earplugs, or after seeing a loud concert? my ears ring like that all the time now.

now that my hearing is half ruined i've started using those hearos earplugs to prevent even more hearing damage, and i have to admit they work pretty well. they're a lot better than foam earplugs at least. they're more comfortable and they don't block the high frequencies as much.
 
I also use Etymotic Research products. I have a pair of the HF5's which are fantastic. They are not professional quality, but they are very high quality headphones compared to what you would ever buy at, say, Target or Best Buy.

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/hf5.html

I did not buy the custom fit, but I still get very, very good sound isolation. I can wear these on an airplane and - when I take the time to really insert them correctly and establish a seal - I can listen to my music at only about 5 or 10% higher volume than if I were sitting alone in my bedroom.

Realize that if you don't get the custom fitted tips, it's going to take you a few weeks to get used to wearing them. You can buy all different kinds of tips and see which you like best. Also realize that a lot of musicians would not recommend these headphones because they are single rather than dual driver.

For info on in-ear monitors and headphones in general, there is a great forum called head-fi.org.

-sheldon
 
Ok so I was playing with my band last night, and as all gigs are, it was pretty noisy. After the set, my ears were ringing alooot. Blah blah more whining etc :p

So basically, i assume ear damage will happen if I carry on with this. So what is recommended? I've been considering the idea of In Ear Moniters, but I dunno.
Any ideas/recommendations?

I had more than a few nights like that and after one particularly loud evening and ringing in my ears that persisted into the following morning, I decided to do something. I tried using Hearos, but I couldn't get used to muffled sound. Since then, I got a Shure PSM 400 wireless system with the P4M mixer. I also upgraded the earbuds to the Shure SCL5 dual driver model, and they're comfortable enough to wear for 3+ hours at a stretch. I've only used them in rehearsals and in the practice room so far, but my ears no longer ring after playing. The PSM 400 has limiter that keeps the volume at whatever threshold you set. In the band room, I have one Mic over the kit, 1 mic out front that aims toward the guitar amp and my kick, and I have a line in from the vocal monitor mix. The only thing I can't hear very well is myself when I'm speaking to others during rehearsal.
 
Tinitus is caused by stress on the nerves in the inner ear. A mild amount of stress and they recover. The ringing goes away. Most folks are familiar with this. Too much cumlative stress (or too great a shock at once) and they never recover. They just spontaneously trigger as if sound was coming in. You heard sound (typically high frequency ringing at one or more frequencies, but it could be anything including a crashing ocean or crackling sound) even when there is no sound outside. There is no known recovery for this. It is permanent. Although various folks have worked out ways to limit further aggravating it or minimizing the effect, science hasn't worked out a way to reverse it yet. Some folks, such as soundpeople from the 80s who climbed over PA stacks sticking their heads into each horn to make sure it was working, have it so bad that they have opted for surgery to cut the aural nerve bundle. Deafness being preferable to hearing a jet engine in your head 24/7. I am very lucky in that I learned what was happening while mine was still very mild and I only notice it in very quiet environments.

Now that I hopefully have your attention, for less money than a new snare drum, ride cymbal or pair of hats, you can protect your ears correctly. There's no earthly reason why every working musician shouldn't do this. Get yourself to an audiologist and get fitted for a set of ER molded plugs. The nearly neutral filters come in various levels. They are made by Etymotic at 9, 15 and 25 dB reductions. You pick the one that suits your circumstance. Quiet jazz gigs and such can get away with the 9 dB. Most folks would use the 15 and loud rockers should use the 25. Most of the molds will allow the inserts to be swapped out, so you could have the 15s for your gigs, but get a set of 25s to swap in if you go to a loud concert.

There are various folks who can make the molded plug that the ER15 insert fits into. I have highly recommended Sensaphonics in many threads. I've had plugs made by both Westone (though my medical insurance's audiologist) and Sensaphonics (which I paid out of my own pocket). And the comfort and fit of the Sensaphonics was well worth it. I can have them in all night and not notice it. Sometimes I wear them home just to reduce the car noise and give my ears a further rest. I couldn't do this with the stiffer Westones, I was pulling them out every break.

Whether you get IEMs or not, get a set of these molded ER plugs. You will wear them all the other times you are exposed to loud sound and that will go a long way toward saving your hearing.

Useable IEMs (not consumer ear buds) are the same basic molded plug but with drivers inside (or molded to accept standard OTS ear buds like the Shures). General purpose ear buds (even the higher end Ulitimate Ears or Shures) are NOT suitible for IEMs. They do not seal reliably and fall out constantly. Horrible for drummers who either have to finish the song with the bud hanging out (leaving the ear unprotected and not being able to hear that monitor feed) or fight to push it back in during the middle of playing the song. The same people who made your ER15 plugs can use that same mold to make IEMs if you need them. Those will stay in. And if molded correctly (there is an art to this that the Sensaphonics audioligists are all certified to) will not leak ambient sound in or lose bass response from losing the seal to your ear.

One more thing with IEMs. The isolation drives many people nuts. You really need to have a dedicated monitor mixer with separate mixes for each band member, which is unlikely unless you are a varsity outfit. I exchanged several messages with the sound tech for All Time Low on the pro sound forum on this subject and over three rebuilds, they ended up with what I was telling him. So a common thing musicians do it pull one IEM out so they can hear the stage with an open ear. This is doubly bad for your ears. You have one ear unprotected, and you need to blast the IEM sealed against your other ear to hear the monitor mix over the volume you are getting in the open ear. Here is where having that set of ER15 plugs comes in. If the IEMs are really driving you crazy and you absolutely need to pull one out, then put the ER15 back in that open ear. This will lower the level going into your head, protect your "open" ear, and let you use a reasonable level in the IEM ear.

Like eyeballs, you only get one set of ears.
 
always trust aeolian to cut through the fog and articulate every detail. foxxy i wanted to hear the band, plus i had to have a clik track...and i didn't like phones, so to make things absolutely horrific, i listened to the click in one ear with a little tiny ear bud for close to two yrs. i now have the kind of hearing loss where you have trouble hearing something specific if there's any background noise. but the important thing is that i was looking cool?
 
Aeolian, YES!!!! Thank you for driving the point home.

I wear my Etymotics every day for hours at a time with the 25db filters in. They're extremely comfortable and work really well. I recommend them to every musician who walks the face of this planet.
 
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