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  #1  
Old 02-26-2014, 02:50 AM
The Edge The Edge is offline
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Default Heuer Drums

Chris Heuer is making new kits for some guy named Vinnie. Vinnie has a link on his website now, replacing the Ludwig link. This was foreshadowed on another board.
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  #2  
Old 02-26-2014, 05:30 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Interesting:
http://www.vinniecolaiuta.com/Home/Links

But I can't imagine Vinnie is going to just endorse a small company that can't offer him back line support.
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  #3  
Old 02-26-2014, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I'm not sure how that will all work. He may just use what he wants, when he wants, but have the Heuer as his main kit.
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  #4  
Old 02-26-2014, 05:45 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Interesting that the address for Heuer Drums is on Keystone Way.
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  #5  
Old 02-26-2014, 08:11 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by lsits View Post
Interesting that the address for Heuer Drums is on Keystone Way.
Oh my. Astute observation.
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  #6  
Old 02-26-2014, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Chris is a known & regarded restorer of drums. Jon should be able to tell you more about him, but if Vinnie has opted for personal support of a guy who knows what he's doing, over the entanglement that can be a major deal, then I'm all for supporting that. I imagine any such decision would be based on Vinnie's experiences, & individual expertise can bring a personal touch that major companies will struggle to emulate. Effectively taking the role of personal drum tech several steps further?

Good luck to both of them I say. Very refreshing :)
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  #7  
Old 02-26-2014, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I don't know Vinnie's details regarding Heuer, I've kind of forgotten that he was ever with a major company. :) But he's had Chris do some work before, Vinnie didn't just discover him out of the blue. Chris has always been the go-to guy for a lot of pros.

Bermuda
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  #8  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I wonder if he'll use some other kits, too. I'll be surprised if he uses the H euers exclusively. But in the end, who cares? It's just gear, man. I'm sure the Heuers are great. They're being used for a reason.
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  #9  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I just heard Vinnie play the Heuers when he appeared in Vancouver with Paul Simon and Sting. I'm not a big fan of either artist- I have little interest in seeing old guys play their old hits,especially in arenas, but the tickets were free, so I went mainly to see Vinnie. Our seats allowed a great view of the man at work, and he was jaw-droppingly good, as I expected. I first saw him playing with Jeff Berlin at the Baked Potato in LA about 25 years ago. I guess the Heuers sounded good. I'm of the opinion that when you listen to a drum kit miced and processed through a big PA that any nuances in the tone of the drums is lost,especially in an arena. And visually, they were just a bunch of black drums under a canopy of cymbals. Vinnie was actually there as Stings drummer. Paul Simon's drummer was very good, but relatively understated compared to Vinnie. He played a small C&C kit with a second snare drum in place of the rack tom. He also played guitar on a couple songs while he played kick and hats with his feet.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2014, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

It seems these days that drums are drums are drums. Everyone is making great stuff and the lowest common denominator for artist is; what can you do for me? Every time I see an artist switch companies, they say "these are the best" or "I have finally found my home" only to leave a short time later. Can't get me what I need? See ya later!
In my time working for a company, I saw all shorts come through with all sorts of demands. It is a shallow business sometimes.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2014, 07:44 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by shotbreak View Post
Every time I see an artist switch companies, they say "these are the best" or "I have finally found my home" only to leave a short time later. Can't get me what I need? See ya later!
There are certainly artists like that, but let's not overlook the fact that sometimes a company changes their product - not always for the better - and there can be other logistical issues that hamper the relationship. Some of you may know that I waited two and a half years for my Keystones, while other artists and stores got theirs. Any artist would have been within their rights to leave, but I hung in there because I really liked the drums. Maybe that's part of why I'm considered a valued endorser.

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  #12  
Old 05-03-2014, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

You aren't kidding! I have seen guys leave over less. Take Tico Leaving Pearl for instance. I have seen good and bad in both area's. The artist demanding too much and the company not paying any attention to the artist.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2014, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I don't think I've ever bought a piece of gear because an artist endorsed it. I look for what I want to hear. Sabians and Ludwig Keystones are getting the job done for me. I like DW hardware and Atlas as well. No one is influencing my choices. Most times it comes down to what I hear in the store and make a decision based on that.

I have a feeling Vinnie will be just fine.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2014, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Is Heuer making their own shells or do they use Keller?
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2014, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I absolutely LOVE IT that Vinnie is supporting the "little guy". Good on him, he's using his "Vinnie Superpowers" to elevate someone like you and I. But not like BErmuda, who is a very large rock star and has the long limo and entourage of slinky girls who follow him around everywhere.

No wait that's Thomas Pridgen. ;)
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2014, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by Basswood View Post
Is Heuer making their own shells or do they use Keller?
As the site makes no statement about this, I can only assume Chris sources shells from multiple vendors as he sees fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
I absolutely LOVE IT that Vinnie is supporting the "little guy".
I couldn't agree more :)
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2014, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
As the site makes no statement about this, I can only assume Chris sources shells from multiple vendors as he sees fit.

I couldn't agree more :)
Here's something I'd love to see : Vinny Coliuda endorces and plays Guru Drums,"because they get it right":)

More OT,although I hated to see him leave Ludwig,going with a little guy who knows his stuff is refreshing,and validates the notion,that some drum builders are artists in their own right.

Steve B
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  #18  
Old 05-04-2014, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by BillRayDrums View Post
...and entourage of slinky girls who follow him around everywhere.
Thanks, but it's more like the slinky girls' moms. :(
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  #19  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Pat Leon with ZUSA (Led Zeppelin cover band) uses Heuer. I think they sound great. Here's a video I took of them live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gbfD...share&index=11
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by Blisco View Post
No one is influencing my choices.
We all like to think so. I know I certainly do. But the flip side is, that advertising isn't a multi-billion dollar industry for no reason. Clearly it works and it works very effectively or advertising budgets wouldn't be as high as they are.

Whether it's the swoosh on Tiger's golf shirt or the logo on Vinnie's bass drum head, it's there for a reason and is clearly having an effect. Just how much effect might surprise many of us, I reckon.
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2014, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Offcourse our choices are influenced.

I don't play Gretsch purely as a Vinnie fan, but the sound I've heard from him playing them is offcourse a big factor.

Considering that if I was to order a US Custom kit I'd probably ask for it to be sent by someone like Chris Heuer just to go over things before shipping it all the way here, if he can do a kit from scratch and get that sound. As long as it's within an acceptable price range, I'm intrigued.

As far as choices in general, though. I don't like Vinnie's Paiste sound. The Ludwigs sounded even worse on most occasions, but there might be different reasons for that. I loved his old stick with Zildjian, but can't stand the new VF one. Just awful.

I think the influences get us through the door, but most of us hopefully end up following our own hearts both with music and gear choices.

No need for drummers to go nuts in an upside-down strat sort of way.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2014, 12:15 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Considering that if I was to order a US Custom kit I'd probably ask for it to be sent by someone like Chris Heuer just to go over things before shipping it all the way here
In some cases, that would be great, based on some of the horrendous bearing edges I've seen on high end lines recently. Of course, not practical, as any deficiency should be taken up back through the retail route, & the moment someone like Chris touches a newly manufactured kit, the manufacturer will disown it immediately.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2014, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
We all like to think so. I know I certainly do. But the flip side is, that advertising isn't a multi-billion dollar industry for no reason. Clearly it works and it works very effectively or advertising budgets wouldn't be as high as they are.

Whether it's the swoosh on Tiger's golf shirt or the logo on Vinnie's bass drum head, it's there for a reason and is clearly having an effect. Just how much effect might surprise many of us, I reckon.
Oh, I agree with that. But I don't directly see Dave Weckl playing HHX Evo's and correlate his playing to mine and thinking I can channel him through those cymbals. I will give them a chance in the store and base a purchase on whether it fits my aesthetic.

I played DW for many, many years. First kit was in 1999. Kind of before they really exploded. I made my decision in the store because they sounded great and the short toms were really cool and fit my desire for low mounted toms. If that store didn't have that kit, I'd probably have a Pearl or Tama.

We all see the ads and watch NAMM with baited breath for new gear, but whether a famous person plays it or not has no bearing on my choices. I can say that honestly.
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  #24  
Old 05-04-2014, 04:52 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

It's all about visibility, profile, perception of success, & suggested professional acceptance. Coupled with frequency of exposure, it's a very powerful yet almost subliminal mix. It may not consciously affect your decision making directly, but the comfort of familiarity opens up a path with fewer barriers.
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Old 05-04-2014, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

I knew well before Vinnie was looking for a custom builder, I even had the opportunity to apply. I am kind of disappointed to learn Chris works or worked for Keller, and is simply a good assembler/tweaker. I am sure he is great at finishes and edges, but from what I can see, not a "true custom builder" in my book.
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  #26  
Old 05-04-2014, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by uniongoon View Post
I knew well before Vinnie was looking for a custom builder, I even had the opportunity to apply. I am kind of disappointed to learn Chris works or worked for Keller, and is simply a good assembler/tweaker. I am sure he is great at finishes and edges, but from what I can see, not a "true custom builder" in my book.
Agreed. They should go for "Custom Assembler+Lacquerer" instead.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Quote:
BillRayDrums .....But not like BErmuda, who is a very large rock star and has the long limo and entourage of slinky girls who follow him around everywhere.
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Bermuda.......Thanks, but it's more like the slinky girls' moms. :(

News just in...paparazzi catches picture of one of Bermudas groupies ....

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  #28  
Old 05-05-2014, 06:43 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

He said MOMS not grandmas. Just sayin'
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by uniongoon View Post
I knew well before Vinnie was looking for a custom builder, I even had the opportunity to apply. I am kind of disappointed to learn Chris works or worked for Keller, and is simply a good assembler/tweaker. I am sure he is great at finishes and edges, but from what I can see, not a "true custom builder" in my book.
Nonsense. Does he have to manufacture his own hardware and make the dyes for his paint to for it to count?
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:18 PM
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Nonsense. Does he have to manufacture his own hardware and make the dyes for his paint to for it to count?
My definition of a custom drum builder is anyone who offers a completely custom building service. That's a company/individual who offers to provide any size, finish, construction you ask for, c/w a choice of shell hardware etc. Within that definition, whether the builder makes their own shells, shell hardware, etc is irrelevant. This is not a quality statement or bar to reach, it's just a classification. For the record, I do not regard my company as a "custom builder" for the reasons stated above.

All that said, there's different levels of builder/manufacturer, some offering custom builds, some offering defined series of drums, & some offering a level of customisation of defined series drums.

Making your own shells is often used as a differentiator between those who buy parts in from others & assemble them, compared to those who craft their own shells. Even amongst those who make their own shells, there's very few who make their own shell hardware too. If you use outsourcing as a differentiator, that encompasses 99% of the business at one level or another.

Of course, ultimately, it's the finished result that matters. There's a ton of builders & large companies alike who give the impression they make everything themselves, or at least the key components, but the truth is very different. Does that automatically mean they produce a lesser product as a result? Usually, the answer is no. Outsourcing is a decision taken on a financial basis. The constant drive towards the lowest possible price. Ok, maybe that in itself tells you something about the companies concerned, but the ethos varies massively from company to company.

There is a school of thought that companies who make their own shells somehow have a better understanding of the instrument's design. Although not always directly the case IMO, there is some "hands on" truth to that. Only by working closely with design & production of the various elements, including shell hardware, do you get a full & close appreciation of what works & what doesn't. Again, not a quality observation, more of a human nature observation. Sometimes that very much feeds into the finished instrument, sometimes it doesn't.

Finally, the most important aspect of all - knowledge, & the design ethos of the company. A holistic approach to cohesive instrument design, backed up with an intimate knowledge of how design elements/choices interact to produce a focussed result is going to deliver a well performing instrument. Many drums are not the product of such a process, often, with other considerations entering the mix, but little of that has anything to do with levels of outsourcing.

The worst kind of "custom builder" is the individual or group of people who offer an assembly service with little - no real knowledge of how the instruments work. Essentially, "we'll build anything you want, no matter how crap the outcome may be, & irrespective of how it will sound/perform". Access to that market is low investment & immediate, & that's why many builders who really know their craft use making their own shells as a differentiator. Shell making can be easy in the case of ply shells (but requires investment), or difficult in the case of other forms (but requires skills to pull off convincingly). Either way, it's a barrier to entry. So, although making your own shells isn't necessarily an indication of instrument quality, it can be an indication of how seriously the business is taken, & that's likely to equate to a more focussed product range, & greater knowledge than someone armed with a work bench, spray gun, router, & a battery drill. Of course, there are notable exceptions too.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
It's all about visibility, profile, perception of success, & suggested professional acceptance. Coupled with frequency of exposure, it's a very powerful yet almost subliminal mix. It may not consciously affect your decision making directly, but the comfort of familiarity opens up a path with fewer barriers.
I'll tell you where my some of that comfort came from/into play. After playing my wonderful short stack for a few years, I began to notice a lot of top-tier acts having that obvious DW logo on stage. It seemed to be everyone on TV was playing DW. I went to measly little bar gig on Saturday night and felt a bit of pride flipping that DW bass drum up and onto its spurs. Although I know the average person pays no attention to logos on bass drum heads, for me it was a tiny bit of validation and smug pride knowing that I play what the pros play.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:13 PM
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I'll tell you where my some of that comfort came from/into play. After playing my wonderful short stack for a few years, I began to notice a lot of top-tier acts having that obvious DW logo on stage. It seemed to be everyone on TV was playing DW. I went to measly little bar gig on Saturday night and felt a bit of pride flipping that DW bass drum up and onto its spurs. Although I know the average person pays no attention to logos on bass drum heads, for me it was a tiny bit of validation and smug pride knowing that I play what the pros play.
There you go - you got it :) That comfort/familiarity/validation aura is exactly what I'm highlighting, & exactly why major companies put so much resource into marketing. The "pro" validation is a big part of that, even if you firmly believe you're not affected by it. Same deal with entry level kits to younger players. Validity & bragging rights. Little money is made on entry level stuff, but the marketers know players starting on brand X entry level drums are more likely to choose the same brand for their next kit than if they didn't use that brand to start with, if that makes sense.
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Old 05-05-2014, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Heuer Drums

Guess that means Gretsch isn'r a real builder either. Same goes probably for a lot of big names.

I personally just want a flawless product based on my own tonal estetique. That basically just means a traditional Gretsch type shell with diecast hoops. It's lot of money though, and there seems to have been a few issues with quality control in recent times.

I don't really care about the name. My main guitar is just a nice late 60's type strat, but it doesn't say Fender on the headstock.
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Old 05-05-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
My definition of a custom drum builder is anyone who offers a completely custom building service. That's a company/individual who offers to provide any size, finish, construction you ask for, c/w a choice of shell hardware etc. Within that definition, whether the builder makes their own shells, shell hardware, etc is irrelevant. This is not a quality statement or bar to reach, it's just a classification. For the record, I do not regard my company as a "custom builder" for the reasons stated above.

All that said, there's different levels of builder/manufacturer, some offering custom builds, some offering defined series of drums, & some offering a level of customisation of defined series drums.

Making your own shells is often used as a differentiator between those who buy parts in from others & assemble them, compared to those who craft their own shells. Even amongst those who make their own shells, there's very few who make their own shell hardware too. If you use outsourcing as a differentiator, that encompasses 99% of the business at one level or another.

Of course, ultimately, it's the finished result that matters. There's a ton of builders & large companies alike who give the impression they make everything themselves, or at least the key components, but the truth is very different. Does that automatically mean they produce a lesser product as a result? Usually, the answer is no. Outsourcing is a decision taken on a financial basis. The constant drive towards the lowest possible price. Ok, maybe that in itself tells you something about the companies concerned, but the ethos varies massively from company to company.

There is a school of thought that companies who make their own shells somehow have a better understanding of the instrument's design. Although not always directly the case IMO, there is some "hands on" truth to that. Only by working closely with design & production of the various elements, including shell hardware, do you get a full & close appreciation of what works & what doesn't. Again, not a quality observation, more of a human nature observation. Sometimes that very much feeds into the finished instrument, sometimes it doesn't.

Finally, the most important aspect of all - knowledge, & the design ethos of the company. A holistic approach to cohesive instrument design, backed up with an intimate knowledge of how design elements/choices interact to produce a focussed result is going to deliver a well performing instrument. Many drums are not the product of such a process, often, with other considerations entering the mix, but little of that has anything to do with levels of outsourcing.

The worst kind of "custom builder" is the individual or group of people who offer an assembly service with little - no real knowledge of how the instruments work. Essentially, "we'll build anything you want, no matter how crap the outcome may be, & irrespective of how it will sound/perform". Access to that market is low investment & immediate, & that's why many builders who really know their craft use making their own shells as a differentiator. Shell making can be easy in the case of ply shells (but requires investment), or difficult in the case of other forms (but requires skills to pull off convincingly). Either way, it's a barrier to entry. So, although making your own shells isn't necessarily an indication of instrument quality, it can be an indication of how seriously the business is taken, & that's likely to equate to a more focussed product range, & greater knowledge than someone armed with a work bench, spray gun, router, & a battery drill. Of course, there are notable exceptions too.
As one who runs the web for a custom drum co (http://stonecustomdrum.com) I can tell you this- offer too many choices and you confuse the crap outta the customer.

We offer a wide range of shells and finishes (we make our own shells, not dolling up Keller or Eames) but we tend to stick to one or two lug designs.

We can make drum shells, finish them to your liking and drill them for any lug pattern but as far as putting DW lugs on a "Stonerland"...probably won't be an option in the forseeable future. :D
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  #35  
Old 05-05-2014, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by keep it simple View Post
There you go - you got it :) That comfort/familiarity/validation aura is exactly what I'm highlighting, & exactly why major companies put so much resource into marketing. The "pro" validation is a big part of that, even if you firmly believe you're not affected by it. Same deal with entry level kits to younger players. Validity & bragging rights. Little money is made on entry level stuff, but the marketers know players starting on brand X entry level drums are more likely to choose the same brand for their next kit than if they didn't use that brand to start with, if that makes sense.
That no doubt is a huge effect. But that wasn't my feeling going into the purchase. It evolved. But it didn't last because I went Gretsch after that. Then Ayotte. Back in 99, there was a lacquered wood hoop Ayotte kit set up next to my Short Stack. I wanted that Ayotte. The price kept me from it. Twelve years later I got a chance for one and sold both my Gretsch's and more to swing the deal. That store impression never left me all that time.

So. I'm kind of proving my point too. I saw them, I heard them and I was affected deeply by them. So when the chance came, I was fully committed to making it happen. Then I joined a heavy gigging band and realized that they were too precious to take out every weekend. So what to do???

Since I was 12 years old and starting lessons, the blue sparkle Ludwig in the front window of the music store was the epitome of class. 31 years later I still had never had a Ludwig but could never forget that kit and how bad I wanted it then. Knowing I needed a tough, wrapped kit for gigs, I went looking at Ludwig and discovered the Keystone's. Found the Workhorse config ideal and the pewter glass finish perfect (they offered blue sparkle in the first year too-really struggled on getting that and fulfilling a dream) for my needs. No amount of advertising dollars went into this decision. It was a lifelong dream to own a 'real' Ludwig. Fantastic decision and 18 months later it is indeed a Workhorse.
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