Does your inner metronome ruin your appreciation of music?

lowdowner

lowdowner

Senior Member
Recently I've noticed two changes in my head - both since I've started to get better at 'hearing' that inner metronome that drummers seem to develop after a while learning.

The first is that I can sense the beat in the music without counting out loud - there's something weird in my head that anticipates the next beat, or the beginning of a new bar almost subconciously. It's weird, but it's really connecting with the music in a way that never happened before I started learning to play drums.

The second is that I've started noticing that some recorded music - live or studio - isn't always quite 'in time'. In some more extreme cases, and with music I've listened to for years and enjoyed, I've started to get irritated or put off by the lack of decent timing within the band and especially the vocals which are just out of time :(

I know that some - great - musicians can pull and push the pulse and I'm not referring to that. I love some players and singers and the way they can build anticipation or give the impression of laziness or cool. It's more straighforward rock tracks that are just 'off'.

So, is this is drummers' curse? Does it pass and will I relax and just enjoy the tracks timing warts and all? Or am I just getting more discerning.

What's your experience?
 
I have the opposite problem. I'm really sensitive to "perfect" machine time where a click is used, and it almost always sounds lifeless to me. I would much rather, and usually do listen to live stuff and recordings that are more worried about an amazing feel than perfect metronomic time.

What's an example of something that bothered you?
 
Can you give us an example? Perhaps it's just me, but most of the most of the music I listen to tends to be wonderfully in time, which brings the questionably timed stuff (Mangini...) to my attention even more. But, I can't say I've heard many pieces recorded with that bad timing.
 
I had a guy in the club the other night start doing the whole clapping way behind the beat thing and yelling out "too fast" as we were playing a tune. I mean, really guy? The tune felt good, the singer sang well, that's really all anyone needs to worry about.

Thank God he stopped because I was gonna really take him down a few pegs if he'd continued.
 
BillRayDrums said:
I had a guy in the club the other night start doing the whole clapping way behind the beat thing and yelling out "too fast" as we were playing a tune. I mean, really guy? The tune felt good, the singer sang well, that's really all anyone needs to worry about.

Thank God he stopped because I was gonna really take him down a few pegs if he'd continued.
Click to expand...

Holy crap. I don't think I would have acted so professional.
 
When your standards go up you see the flaws a bit more easily.

I'm battling the same kind of thing. I left a band over bad timing recently.

I don't think there's much we can do but accept that people aren't as anal about it as we are. I feel responsible for letting them know when it's a problem though. On the plus side - your heightened sensitivity will benefit your feel behind the kit, just aim to be a rock and hopefully that will sort your band members or at least put them in their place.
 
I listen to music as a whole, without over-analyzing or dissecting it. I'm aware of tempo fluctuations in recordings and live performance , but as long as the song feels good, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment. So hearing Keith Moon and Bonham pushing and pulling is no big deal, I still enjoy the music and their playing.

Bermuda
 
bermuda said:
I listen to music as a whole, without over-analyzing or dissecting it. I'm aware of tempo fluctuations in recordings and live performance , but as long as the song feels good, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment. So hearing Keith Moon and Bonham pushing and pulling is no big deal, I still enjoy the music and their playing.
Click to expand...

Same here, though you'd pick up more fluctuations than I do. The exception is:

Dr_Watso said:
I have the opposite problem. I'm really sensitive to "perfect" machine time where a click is used, and it almost always sounds lifeless to me. I would much rather, and usually do listen to live stuff and recordings that are more worried about an amazing feel than perfect metronomic time.
Click to expand...

Yep, something is missing there for me too. Ditto with extreme dynamic consistency. I have become more tolerant because I hear so much of my nephew's music but I'm a creature of my generation and prefer old school push and pull.
 
I don't differentiate between sequenced and live playing in terms of whether I enjoy it. If a song feels good, then I like it. Sequenced parts can be quite infectious and compelling. I don't automatically dislike a track just because they didn't use a live drummer, any more than I would automatically like a track just because they did. Music for me has merits beyond what the drums are doing.

Bermuda
 
My inner metronome doesn't bug me as much as my inner chromatic tuner does. :(

Music is like organic produce: it has spots and blemishes, and those spots and blemishes are how you know you're getting the real deal. Good musicians know how to minimize and.or hide these blemishes, but you can never get rid of them entirely. Not even with Pro Tools.
 
No.

I still think Live at Leeds is awesome.

Not all music is meant to be perfect.

But I'm with Bermuda. Some albums I love have sloppy time. Some albums I love are all done with machines.
 
I guess it goes both directions. You get more aware of issues in music that's still in its early stages but also your appreciation of the maestros and the level of what they do just grows.
 
I'm really intrigued to see an example of what you mean here?

i don't know of any recording that anyone would let be released that didn't sound good!
 
Diet Kirk said:
I'm really intrigued to see an example of what you mean here?

i don't know of any recording that anyone would let be released that didn't sound good!
Click to expand...

As we know, the term 'good' is very subjective. just because tempo fluctuates or fills push & pull, doesn't mean the song isn't good. Just because a song is played (or sequenced) in perfect tempo, doesn't mean a song is good.

But there are some real gaffs that exist, and I don't mean the relative charm of the Beatles singing a different lyric from one another ("Hold Me Tight" is classic, with the "so/now" overlap happening before each chorus.) The Stones' "Time Is On My Side" has the most out of time tambourine part in the history of recorded music! And "Wild Weekend" by the Rockin' Rebels has the drums completely flip the beat in the outro! Obviously the quality control became more stringent over the decades, those would be unacceptable now and would never be released.

If you're talking about songs that have tempo fluctuations, just listen to almost any pop/rock band tracks from the '60s or '70s. For something a little more recent, listen how Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (1991) speeds up almost immediately. But that didn't stop it from being a rockin' track. When Al parodied that, we recorded to a click, and it just wasn't the same (the choruses were later digitally sped up to help capture the Nirvana vibe.)

Bermuda
 
Emmylou Harris on her album Red Dirt Girl has a track 'My Antonia' which wonders all over the place... the drums and the vocals never synchronise and I'm convinced it's a mistake and not deliberate.
 
lowdowner said:
Emmylou Harris on her album Red Dirt Girl has a track 'My Antonia' which wonders all over the place... the drums and the vocals never synchronise and I'm convinced it's a mistake and not deliberate.
Click to expand...

bermuda said:
As we know, the term 'good' is very subjective. just because tempo fluctuates or fills push & pull, doesn't mean the song isn't good. Just because a song is played (or sequenced) in perfect tempo, doesn't mean a song is good.

But there are some real gaffs that exist, and I don't mean the relative charm of the Beatles singing a different lyric from one another ("Hold Me Tight" is classic, with the "so/now" overlap happening before each chorus.) The Stones' "Time Is On My Side" has the most out of time tambourine part in the history of recorded music! And "Wild Weekend" by the Rockin' Rebels has the drums completely flip the beat in the outro! Obviously the quality control became more stringent over the decades, those would be unacceptable now and would never be released.

If you're talking about songs that have tempo fluctuations, just listen to almost any pop/rock band tracks from the '60s or '70s. For something a little more recent, listen how Nirvana's "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (1991) speeds up almost immediately. But that didn't stop it from being a rockin' track. When Al parodied that, we recorded to a click, and it just wasn't the same (the choruses were later digitally sped up to help capture the Nirvana vibe.)

Bermuda
Click to expand...

By good, I meant enough to irritate like the OP suggests. I was thinking it would be unlikely to have recordings that were released where elements were not in time with other elements.

Obviously one of the joys of music is listening to a band that are tight together so that they can speed up on choruses and lay back in verses. But each element is still in time with each other. This is a great reason to watch live music as bands intuitively lock in with each other (those who don't use a click I'm talking here.)

That tambourine part is a real eye opener though! wow, thats just flat out painful to listen to! The nirvana track I think is an example of a great band tight with each other speeding up where they feel they should but doing it bang on together - ie = great!

That Emmylou Harris track though sounds great to me and doesn't sound out of time at all. The drums and vocals are just occupying different spaces and don't need to 'lock in'. To me the drums are just on the off beats, with the exception of that tambourine hit that is on the beat and provides the link to the vocals.
 
Diet Kirk said:
By good, I meant enough to irritate like the OP suggests. I was thinking it would be unlikely to have recordings that were released where elements were not in time with other elements.
Click to expand...

Normally such flawed recordings shouldn't have escaped at all, even in the hurried days of the early rock era with the rush to get songs on the radio, and limited studio time available to get 'better' takes. That's not to say everyone released a flawed track now and then, but the listening audience was less trained or sensitive to minor gaffs that would be unacceptable today.

There were all sorts problems that we just accept as charming or a sign of the times, I guess they were a little of both. Timing issues, tuning issues, playing mistakes, stray noises (check out the hi-hat intro on Donovan's "Mellow Yellow") and vocals coming in early - here's a partial list: : "Immigrant Song" (Led Zeppelin), "Gratitude" (Danny Elfman), "I'm Alright" (Kenny Loggins), "I Saw Her Again Last Night" (Mamas & Papas), "Battle Of The Bands" (Turtles), "Louie Louie" (Kingsmen), and I'm sure there are more.

There's even a cool drum hiccup on "Gangsters" by the Specials, the drummer starts a double time lick too early, and quickly bails, turning it into a cool little fittle fill at the topm of a section. It's one of those things I knew was a mistake the first time I heard it, but it was cool anyway.

But timing problems have to be fairly extreme for the casual listener to sense or care about it, and that's why there wasn't the pressure to have perfect tempos. Some producers were proactive and brought in session drummers, whose time (and style and sound) was more radio-friendly.

Bermuda
 
BillRayDrums said:
I had a guy in the club the other night start doing the whole clapping way behind the beat thing and yelling out "too fast" as we were playing a tune. I mean, really guy? The tune felt good, the singer sang well, that's really all anyone needs to worry about.

Thank God he stopped because I was gonna really take him down a few pegs if he'd
continued.
Click to expand...
wow! i'm glad that hasn't happened to me (that i know of). i don't know what i would have done, but i'd probably be in prison. sheesh. timing inconsistencies used to drive me nuts, but as i get older, if it grooves, i'm happy. still, if i hear a noticeable change in time, i don't like it. as far as my own playing, if i hear my bandmates having issues, i call them on it before it becomes a "battle for time", and i will call in the click if i have to (for practice only, so we can learn where we TEND to speed up or slow down- but only if i feel it detracts from the song). it's ok to let it breath. a little.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top