Recording Customs Not Bop Drums?

The Pearl thin shelled Masters Premium are going to give you the closest sound to "vintage", because that's the way the shells are configured. Certainly, no one's gonna throw you "off the stage" if you show up with Yamaha RC's......fine drums.....but the thicker, straight shell equates to a more modern sound. More projection. Like the difference between pre/post 76 Ludwigs or pre/post 78 Rogers. If you're worried about re-sale value, buy "vintage" from the start. A new Pearl kit is almost guaranteed to de-value. A vintage kit has already done that, and is now going "up" in value. As far as hardware, "bop" kits usually have just 1 rack tom ? I'm a hardcore Yamaha hardware fan, so that 1 rack tom would be flying off a cymbal stand by way of a Yamaha tom mount/RIMS.
 
Artstar said:
Robert M. This is the classic "bop" tone coming from drums, in my opinion. The first is the Gretsch/Keller gum/maple shell cranked up big time.. Scroll to 1:41, and PLEASE don't use wimpy speakers or you won't hear schit.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcNvFc-rBjI&feature=PlayList&p=6F3848EC9494A300&playnext=1&index=2

The second is what DW copied Gretsch with in order to crank up the shells and not choke, which they admit, (Gumwood/Maple) VERY SIMILAR SOUND, EH? They could'nt do that with a regular maple shell and die cast. Scroll to :45

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki2sI7_qTvs&feature=PlayList&p=4A80610C4ED1B93B&playnext=1&index=23

The third is a Yamaha PHX. Yamaha could actually do this with the current, Classic Maple Custom with slightly thicker shells and gold lugs IMO, but this is the Phoenix, CRANKED. The tom is'nt tuned perfect to my ears, but the floor and kick are rockin.

3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBH1ajLNguY
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Don't forget how the Tama SC Bubinga sound--Walter Calloni playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFajByl0zPQ
 
Well, I think I may go with Oak Customs, actually. I've been comparing sounds quite a bit between the RCs and the Oaks and Maples, and my gut reaction tends to be:

- the RCs sound like "mud" from a distance (the tom sound is very "thuddy")
- the Oak Customs have a great open, bright, punchy sound that is reminiscent of maple

I'd love to own an RC kit some day, but I think the Oak Customs might fit jazz playing more.

Everyone seems to think that the Oaks are solely meant for loud rock playing, but I'm not so sure. Drums are loud, period. And with the right heads and right touch, a player can control a drum, right?

Just think the Oaks can provide some bright punch that would fit jazz, as to where the RCs have that muted "thud" that fits rock and funk but might be a stretch to fit bebop.

The Oak toms only come in 8x10 and 9x12. The standard jazz 12 tom is 8x12, so I hope the 9x12 doesn't screw things up?
 
aydee said:
Sure, any singing shell will do. Mahogany sings. Bubinga too, though it has a lower tone than maple. But to include Birch in this category is a stretch.

Birch has 'other' wonderful 'thuddy' qualities.

( Nice Slingy. )
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Thuddy??? :'O Does that make me a Thuddite?

Peace!
 
RobertM said:
the RCs sound like "mud" from a distance (the tom sound is very "thuddy")
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I had a set of RC's, some of the best drums made. I would say "thuddy" only if the cat playing them still had the factory Pinstripe heads on 'em. Yes...do yourself a favor and buy a set "someday".

RobertM said:
the Oak Customs have a great open, bright, punchy sound that is reminiscent of maple
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We took an Oak Custom kit and swapped out all the hardware for Ludwig hardware (in hot rod terminology we "built a sleeper"). What we got was the brightest, loudest Ludwig kit ever.
People could not believe their ears, or eyes. Or both. As far as the Oak Customs being "reminiscent of maple", certainly not any maple drums I've ever owned, or played. Now, if the Oak Customs are your "kit of choice" for a bop kit, I'm all for that! Be different. Follow the path less traveled. With the right heads, make it work. Any high end drum kit, with the right heads (tuner and player also important) can be a jazz kit one day, a rock kit the next. And the Oak Customs certainly are pro-level drums. Then, later down the road, get your RC's.....then of course, you'll need to have a set of Maple Customs. And then, you will have "the triad".
 
RobertM said:
Well, I think I may go with Oak Customs, actually. I've been comparing sounds quite a bit between the RCs and the Oaks and Maples, and my gut reaction tends to be:

- the RCs sound like "mud" from a distance (the tom sound is very "thuddy")
-
QUOTE]

AKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess... pinstripe heads on them right?

(shakes his head whilst looking at the ground with slumped shoulders)...

Whilst RC's will never get voted #1 for thin sounding shells, if they sound like mud whoever tuned em ought to be shot. and then set on fire if they had pinstripes on em.. (It was great for the 70's... maybe even the 80's, but we've moved on folks). LOL

I absolutely loathe muddy, choked sounding drums. I have owned and played everything from Tama to DW to Yammies to some I won't even mention.. and I have RC's. Hands-down the best.

Birch is a very rewarding wood to use if you will take the time to learn to work with it.. Tuning, head selection, shell size, and even how you play them are all factors to consider... but RC's are some of, if not the best birch drums ever made.

I love mine..

If you can, find an older set that has been kept in good nick... Birch only gets better as it ages.

Peace!
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Okay, I really painted a bull's eye on my back with my "thuddy" comment! Sorry!

Just indecisive about the kit. But I'm super glad to hear so many of you all vehemently opposed to my ear's interpretation. So, with, say, Aquarian Modern Vintage Coated heads (which I use for jazz)/Remo Coated Ambassadors heads on the RCs, they will sing a lot better? Just want to make sure the RCs can capture a bop sound--and it sounds like they can from what you all are saying.

I think Harry's and Dander's comments are the kick in the arse I needed. I really want to go with the RCs but was worried about the bop sound issue. If you RC players agree that the RCs are very versatile for any musical situation, then I think I'll go with my original plan and get the RCs.

Note: The RC kit I heard in person had Remo or Evans Clear Emperors/G2 heads on it, while the other "thuddy" sounding RCs I heard had what looked to be either Remo Coated Ambassadors or Emperors.
 
Harry: Out of curiosity, why did you sell your RCs? Did you have one of the cool polar white RCs by chance?
 
RobertM said:
Okay, I really painted a bull's eye on my back with my "thuddy" comment! Sorry!

Just indecisive about the kit. But I'm super glad to hear so many of you all vehemently opposed to my ear's interpretation. So, with, say, Aquarian Modern Vintage Coated heads (which I use for jazz)/Remo Coated Ambassadors heads on the RCs, they will sing a lot better? Just want to make sure the RCs can capture a bop sound--and it sounds like they can from what you all are saying.

I think Harry's and Dander's comments are the kick in the arse I needed. I really want to go with the RCs but was worried about the bop sound issue. If you RC players agree that the RCs are very versatile for any musical situation, then I think I'll go with my original plan and get the RCs.

Note: The RC kit I heard in person had Remo or Evans Clear Emperors/G2 heads on it, while the other "thuddy" sounding RCs I heard had what looked to be either Remo Coated Ambassadors or Emperors.
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Don't feel so bad. My local music store had a 12 year old RC for sale. It had Aquarian performance 2's on them, and they did thud...badly.
 
trkdrmr said:
Don't feel so bad. My local music store had a 12 year old RC for sale. It had Aquarian performance 2's on them, and they did thud...badly.
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RC's are not the easiest to get to shine and show their potential, IMO. The ones I've had in the past were sometimes like, WTF? However, I would get them in another room with different heads, etc... and I would be like, "O.K., I see what all the hype is about!".

The older ones definitely had a more dull bearing edge, and the toms were VERY difficult to get to speak, but that edge on the kick was MAGICAL. Those kicks are awesome with an Evans system and no hole on the front.
 
RobertM said:
Harry: Out of curiosity, why did you sell your RCs?
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When I decided to embrace "the darkside" of electronics, I had 3 acoustic kits. Selling 1 seemed the logical way to generate finances enough, and the Yamaha's were the logical choice to sell, being the easiest to replace. The sizes I had were 22, 13, 16, in a Tobacco fade.
 
harryconway said:
When I decided to embrace "the darkside" of electronics, I had 3 acoustic kits. Selling 1 seemed the logical way to generate finances enough, and the Yamaha's were the logical choice to sell, being the easiest to replace. The sizes I had were 22, 13, 16, in a Tobacco fade.
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What Harry has left unsaid is also the fact that he drew maximum value in terms of resale price from the RC, yes?
 
aydee said:
What Harry has left unsaid is also the fact that he drew maximum value in terms of resale price from the RC, yes?
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Yes, that's a very good point. However, since my sizes will most likely be 14x18, 14x14, 8x12, 7.5x10, I'm not sure that if I ever had to sell it in the future that it would fetch much attention because of the sizes. It seems that 22" or 24" or perhaps 20" bass drum setups would appeal to more people.

What do you think?

Harry: Ah! You had a rare anniversary kit, I guess? The Tobacco Fade finish--that's one of the finishes that was not standard, right? I think the turquoise/quartz, the blue, the tobacco were all anniversary or special edition kits, right?
 
RobertM said:
The Tobacco Fade finish--that's one of the finishes that was not standard, right? I think the turquoise/quartz, the blue, the tobacco were all anniversary or special edition kits, right?
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I know it was a "discontinued" finish, but it had no "special" badge attached. Just the standard Yamaha (looks like a stereo chassis badge....gawd) badge. Truth be told, I traded some clear Ludwig Vistalite drums for the Yammies. I had $250 invested in the Luddies (22, 12, 13, 16). When I sold the Yammies, I got $875 for them (22, 13, 16).
aydee said:
What Harry has left unsaid is also the fact that he drew maximum value in terms of resale price from the RC, yes?
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Partially true, but one of my "other kits" contained a factory Ludwig 26x14 natural maple virgin kick (6 ply), much harder to replace.
 
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