DW, the Scientology of drum companies?

What does "superior" mean? By what metric has Mr Good established his product as "superior"? As I've said before, if DW made the claim, "8 out of 10 players preferred DW Performance Series drums in blind testing", I'd accept that (with proper documentation). "Superior", however, is an empty claim without some sort of metric.


Professor Good doesn't need to establish the reason why he feels his process and design is superior, its just his opinion. What he has established tho is he does know drum making, he's established he has tons of experience experimenting hands on with making drums and drum shells.


A friend of mine in the musical instrument biz says he believes testimonials are a load of crap, you can pay ppl to say anything. John Good's opinions are based on some experience, he's not just some hired marketing guy gleaning off of printed info.


20% of the US population eats at McDonalds every day, what does that metric tell you? The metric that keeps Professor Good and DW going at the end of the day is sales numbers/profit.
 
Les Ismore;1354377} 20% of the US population eats at McDonalds every day said:
Tells one of the reasons obesity is on the rise, and will be the #1 health concern in coming years for the millenial generation.
 
dw combines fantastic marketing along with excellent products.
They function like a successful company should function.
I can't fault them for that. I own and like several of their products.
I also own and like numerous products from many other drum manufacturers.
I don't look at dw as a religion but I have respect for the dw team.
The world is a better place with dw in it that is for sure.
They keep every manufacturer on their toes. They keep the bar high.
Stiff competition between manufacturers is always a good thing for consumers.
Competition makes it necessary for all manufacturers to make better products.
 
My opinion is that all the higher end drums from the major companies are going to sound great with the right heads and tuning. it has been discussed here before that even mid-line kits from most manufacturers sound really good with heads/tuning.
What turns me off on DW is that they seem to have most of the top drummers, especially the more visible names, signed as endorsers. Please don't tell me that these star musicians choose the brand they think is the best. A lot of that has to do with the talent relations dept ( or whatever it is called), and the deal$$ that the endorser gets from the company.
I'm sure DW makes great drums, but I'm tired of the overexposure. Like one person said John Good has made 100's of videos. Every music show I see has DW on the bass drum.
What a treat to pull up a Stanton Moore vid and see Gretsch or go see Van Halen and see that Alex is still with Ludwig.
It's not that DW isn't a great drum- I'm just tired of seeing them everywhere.
 
John Good does seem genuinely interested in showing you what makes a DW drum. The other manufacturer's don't do any of that. You might be lucky to see a 5 minute factory tour video that really doesn't show you anything about what goes in to making a drum.
Ahem - it might be on a different level, but aside from hard earned proprietary stuff, I think you'll find we're very open & informative https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUV8NW8gqHs

As you rightly note, a ply drum is a ply drum. The differences are so miniscule as to be negligible.
I thank you for your kind words, but this is not something I've ever said. Yes, differences are diminished compared to differences found using other constructions, but there's still significant differences between different ply drums given that the drums are well designed in the first place. For example, IMHO, Kumu make by far the best ply birch drums on the planet, & by some margin. The reasons for that are many, but ply layup, quality of materials, & cohesion of design direction are at the top of the list.


As for "show & tell" videos, I'm just about to drop a video on you all that pushes a few buttons ;)
 
Everyone in the drum store using DW is sort of the same as wearing the right brand of jeans in school.

I like and use their pedals, but honestly I haven't tried too many other high end pedals except the old Yamaha ones.
 
It's not that DW isn't a great drum- I'm just tired of seeing them everywhere.

I wonder if people said that of Ludwig in the 60's and 70's. A lot of old concert films TV appearances with almost always Ludwig drums shown, just like DW today.

But I'm with you on the 'tired of seeing them thing'. I too like something different and stand out. Good to see folks on these media appearances with C&C or Q
 
Honestly, the whole "what brand of drums does drummer X play" is such a sidetrack to the main issue. I think that 85% of the chatter here is over gear. People think if they buy an expensive drum set that they will be great players. OK not really, but almost. Too much focus on stuff, not enough focus on the real meat and potatoes that is actually playing the drums.

I'm guilty too, but it really is out of balance, the amount of time spent discussing gear compared to the amount of time spent discussing actual drumming.
 
While its obvious Bob doesn't like DW's marketing[...]

Not entirely accurate. I don't like unsupported claims. It doesn't matter a bit to me where they come from.

No other builder will put together a 45 minute video showing you how a single ply of wood and its grain orientation play a roll in the shells construction and overall fundamental note.

Without any A/B comparison or reference or support for the claims, none of his claims are anything more than so much hot air. Okay, so John Good says changing the grain orientation of a ply makes a difference. Why should you and I believe that? Because he's been making drums for a while? Just because you've been doing something for a while doesn't mean your pronouncements are unquestionable.

That's why I have questions: How did he arrive at his conclusions? First, what metric did he establish for "better"? Second, what other approaches were attempted and discarded? Third, etc. etc. etc.

When you boil all the dog-and-pony off of the DW marketing materials, there's no content. In fact, there's no data at all other than "Here's [thingy], and it sounds awesome because I'm John Good and I say so." Forgive me for saying so, but for me that's utterly useless.

The best you get out of the other brands is some sales rep talking about a finished kit and how it sounds "warm and punchy".

True but irrelevant. That other makers don't give any detail at all does not give DW a pass to sell you what - for all you can tell from their marketing materials - is pure snake oil.

The thing is, John hasn't just made one of these videos. He has made hundreds of these videos. If DW crafts something new, JG is out there making a new video about it to show the public.

True but irrelevant. That's not evidence of excellence at drum-making. That's evidence of being very, very good at brand-building and marketing.

I'm not saying I'm drinking the DW Kool-Aid, but John Good does seem genuinely interested in showing you what makes a DW drum. The other manufacturers don't do any of that. You might be lucky to see a 5 minute factory tour video that really doesn't show you anything about what goes in to making a drum.

For that I applaud him. I'm going to be in a position to drop a nice spot of coin on a new kit in a couple of weeks, and DW is high on the list specifically because they innovate. I just want to know how they arrived at their conclusions.

Keep It Simple said:
I thank you for your kind words, but this is not something I've ever said.

My apologies. I must be misremembering. Perhaps I mistakenly read between the lines of some of your previous posts, or synthesized and attributed to you an opinion which clearly you don't have. In any case I was wrong to do that.

In my post you quoted, I was trying to make a point. Clearly I failed, so I'll try again: The difference between ply drums and ply drums - like, say, a PDP Concept Maple and PDP Concept Birch, or between a Concept Maple and a Catalina Maple - is nowhere near so dramatic as the difference between a ply drum with lots of dampening hardware on it and a ply drum with low-mass hardware. Extending the example, that difference, if any, is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between ply drums and solid drums like Guru Tours. And there's a detectable difference between Tours and Origin, because of things like Origin having very little resonance-killing hardware.

If all that's a given (and you'll correct me if it's not), then the difference between a 7-ply maple shell with the grain direction of the outer and inner plies being on the diagonal and a "traditional" 7-ply maple shell would be so minor that it would require instrumentation to detect it. If they really wanted to increase sustain and resonance, they'd get rid of those hideous and humongous Camco turret lugs.

Is that more accurate?

Also, a tangential question: I've heard it said that less glue = more wood = better. Is this true? In other words, is a ply shell made up of less and thicker plies going to be more resonant than otherwise?
 
Not entirely accurate. I don't like unsupported claims. It doesn't matter a bit to me where they come from.

Dear Sir,

Good day and compliments. This letter will definitely come to you as a huge surprise, but I implore you to take the time to go through it carefully as the decision you make will go off a long way to determine the future and continued existence of the entire members of my family.

Without any A/B comparison or reference or support for the claims, none of his claims are anything more than so much hot air. Okay, so John Good says changing the grain orientation of a ply makes a difference. Why should you and I believe that? Because he's been making drums for a while? Just because you've been doing something for a while doesn't mean your pronouncements are unquestionable.

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Dr. (Mrs.) Mariam Abacha, the wife of the late head of state and commander in chief of the armed forces of the federal republic of Nigeria who died on the 8th of June 1998.

That's why I have questions: How did he arrive at his conclusions? First, what metric did he establish for "better"? Second, what other approaches were attempted and discarded? Third, etc. etc. etc.

My ordeal started immediately after my husband's death on the morning of 8th June 1998, and the subsequent take over of government by the last administration. The present democratic government is determined to portray all the good work of my late husband in a bad light and have gone as far as confiscating all my late husband's assets, properties, freezing our accounts both within and outside Nigeria. As I am writing this letter to you, my son Mohammed Abacha is undergoing questioning with the government. All these measures taken by past/present government is just to gain international recognition.

When you boil all the dog-and-pony off of the DW marketing materials, there's no content. In fact, there's no data at all other than "Here's [thingy], and it sounds awesome because I'm John Good and I say so." Forgive me for saying so, but for me that's utterly useless.

I and the entire members of my family have been held incommunicado since the death of my husband, hence I seek your indulgence to assist us in securing these funds. We are not allowed to see or discuss with anybody. Few occasions I have tired traveling abroad through alternative means all failed.


True but irrelevant. That other makers don't give any detail at all does not give DW a pass to sell you what - for all you can tell from their marketing materials - is pure snake oil.




True but irrelevant. That's not evidence of excellence at drum-making. That's evidence of being very, very good at brand-building and marketing.



For that I applaud him. I'm going to be in a position to drop a nice spot of coin on a new kit in a couple of weeks, and DW is high on the list specifically because they innovate. I just want to know how they arrived at their conclusions.

It is in view of this I have mandated DR GALADIMA HASSAN, who has been assisting the family to run around on so many issues to act on behalf of the family concerning the substance of this letter. He has the full power of attorney to execute this transaction with you.

My apologies. I must be misremembering. Perhaps I mistakenly read between the lines of some of your previous posts, or synthesized and attributed to you an opinion which clearly you don't have. In any case I was wrong to do that.

In my post you quoted, I was trying to make a point. Clearly I failed, so I'll try again: The difference between ply drums and ply drums - like, say, a PDP Concept Maple and PDP Concept Birch, or between a Concept Maple and a Catalina Maple - is nowhere near so dramatic as the difference between a ply drum with lots of dampening hardware on it and a ply drum with low-mass hardware. Extending the example, that difference, if any, is nowhere near as dramatic as the difference between ply drums and solid drums like Guru Tours. And there's a detectable difference between Tours and Origin, because of things like Origin having very little resonance-killing hardware.

My late husband had/has Eighty Million USD ($80,000,000.00) specially preserved and well packed in trunk boxes of which only my husband and I knew about. It is packed in such a way to forestall just anybody having access to it. It is this sum that I seek your assistance to get out of Nigeria as soon as possible before the present civilian government finds out about it and confiscate it just like they have done to all our assets.

If all that's a given (and you'll correct me if it's not), then the difference between a 7-ply maple shell with the grain direction of the outer and inner plies being on the diagonal and a "traditional" 7-ply maple shell would be so minor that it would require instrumentation to detect it. If they really wanted to increase sustain and resonance, they'd get rid of those hideous and humongous Camco turret lugs.

Is that more accurate?

I implore you to please give consideration to my predicament and help a widow in need.

May Allah show you mercy as you do so?

Your faithfully,

Dr (Mrs.) Mariam Abacha (M.O.N)




Also, a tangential question: I've heard it said that less glue = more wood = better. Is this true? In other words, is a ply shell made up of less and thicker plies going to be more resonant than otherwise?

N/B: Please contact Dr Galadima Hassan on this e-mail address for further briefing and modalities
 
They make some nice drums. So do several other companies. That's all I know.
(I'll never be considered a wordsmith)
 
Is that true?!......

It's loosely based in truth.

I believe the stat was that the number pf prepared meals served each day(by all fast food restaurants in the US) was equivalent to 25% the US population. This was rehashed to the point where (in Supersize Me) that 20% of the population eats fast food every day. This was further obfuscated into 20% of people eat at McDonalds every day.

So the stat is wrong, it replaces each with every, and it replaces all fast restaurants (chipotle, apples, subway, fish fry, cafeterias) with McDonalds. It also discounts those that eat fast food more than once a day.

But yes, it is based on a real study that is likely on the web somewhere. I'd hit the "Supersize Me" site and see if they have the reference study linked.
 
It's loosely based in truth.

I believe the stat was that the number pf prepared meals served each day(by all fast food restaurants in the US) was equivalent to 25% the US population. This was rehashed to the point where (in Supersize Me) that 20% of the population eats fast food every day. This was further obfuscated into 20% of people eat at McDonalds every day.

So the stat is wrong, it replaces each with every, and it replaces all fast restaurants (chipotle, apples, subway, fish fry, cafeterias) with McDonalds. It also discounts those that eat fast food more than once a day.

But yes, it is based on a real study that is likely on the web somewhere. I'd hit the "Supersize Me" site and see if they have the reference study linked.


The 20% of the population eating at McDonalds stat was pulled from my memory of hearing about it the the 80's. Maybe not current as ppl are becoming more aware of what they compose their bodies of.

The correlation to drum gear is advertising works. McDonalds floods the ad market, DW also floods the ad market.
 
I eat mcdonalds for the preservatives. I don't want to start looking old just yet.
 
I eat mcdonalds for the preservatives. I don't want to start looking old just yet.

I've often wondered if preservatives had any effect, positive or negative, on human aging.

The chances of preservatives being good for you seems slim.
 
I have really tried to like D.W. drums. I want to support a local business like D.W., but I can't do it. Their drums sound horrible to me. H O R R I B L E. I've played many, many D.W. drums and I've always been not only unimpressed, but seriously disappointed. The best drums I've ever heard that were associated with them were the PDP drums.

Perhaps they just have a sound that doesn't appeal to me. I don't know about that. I've heard and played nice sounding drums from Pearl, Ludwig, Slingerland, Rogers, Tama, Gretsch, Milestone, and Yamaha. I'm currently playing Gretsch.

I honestly think I can make any brand of drums sound great, EXCEPT for D.W.

I wouldn't take all the D.W. drums in the world for FREE.










Have I mentioned that I really don't like D.W. drums? Well, it's true.

mr-yuck1-150x150.gif
 
Back
Top