Drummers vs. other musicians

rogue_drummer

Gold Member
Is is just me, or do all the other drummers out there have to constantly put up with other musicians, especially guitar players, telling us what to play and how to play?

What I've primarily noticed is that once a musician begins to learn an instrument, especially guitar players, they automatically think they know drumming and can tell drummers what to play, how to play, and begin to relate what other drummers they've seen have done, and we should do it also.

This absolutely drives me out of my head!! I don't tell these people what guitars to buy and how to play or tune their guitars.

I don't tell a horn player he needs to hear the way Al Hirt plays beause it sounds cool. Or maybe tell a sax player to play the way "Blue" Lou Marrini plays sax. Or tell a guitar player to tune their guitar the way Billy Gibbons of ZZ Top tunes his guitar, because "I think it sounds cool".

Why is it once someone learns an instrument, they automatically know everything there is to know about drumming?

I recently had a guitar player tell me that I should "pop" the snare drum because he thought it sounded cool. I told him if he'd wait until I finish hearing this particular song FOR THE FIRST TIME, I'd fit the snare part to the song. I had no music or charts to follow, so I had to make up the drum part. It was in standard 4/4, so I replied usually the snare is on 2 and 4 with variations off that to give the backbeat a unique sound. He gave me a blank look, which obviously gave away he didn't know what the hell I was talking about.

Is it just me being too sensitive, or does everyone else have this same problem? How did you handle it in a diplomatic way?
 
it usually doesn't bother me if someone i'm playing with has constructive criticism or suggestions, as long as they don't get too obnoxious or intrusive. i want everyone to be happy with what i'm doing and for my playing to serve the songwriter's vision of the song, so usually i'm happy to accommodate.
 
rogue_drummer, just wait until you work with a producer. It's even more fun to have someone tell you to do something differently after you've been reheasing it a certian way for over a year. There's a blow to the ego.

We must respect that songwriters hear ideas in thier heads, just the same as when we hear a riff, we think of a beat we can apply. Not everyone is going to have the same idea for the perfect beat.

They may not be drummers, but they are musicians who know what they like and don't. I have no problem vocalizing my opinion if I don't think a guitar part works, or if a vocal line (including lyrics) isn't working, if I want that level of input into what everyone else is doing, I should be able to take some in return.

I have found I do prefer to play with guys who give me more freedom when it comes to the creative control of my drum parts, but can't deny that when I was being "dictated" to (so to speak), the songs still turned out good. None-the-less, my diplomatic resolution to this problem was to leave the band.

They had no problem replacing me with someone who would play what they asked.
 
I don't mind too much if it seems they are hearing a good idea, I'll humor them. I also at times will dictate what I hear in my head regarding, guitars, etc. too.

Just remember the easier you are to work with and try ideas, the more you'll work. Unless they are trying to just be bossy, then you play what sounds good and make em think it was their idea..LOL
 
First of all, the post title caught my attention because we, as drummers, should never be at odds with the other musicians in the group. We should play as "Drummers with other musicians".

Second, it's not really a problem, exactly. Everyone has their say in music, and everyone has different ideas. When another musician crafts a song, they're doing so out of their own head and they hear the idea as they come up with it. If they mention that they hear the drum part a certain way, it's because that's what they're envisioning for the final piece of art that they are creating in their head. If it's more of a pre-established collaborative effort, this scenario would happen less. Communication is key. When you don't communicate, you misunderstand and possibly butt heads or have feelings like the OP is probably feeling now.

Third, I do have this happen, but the person suggesting the drum part is often the person writing the check at the end of the night/session, so it's my job to do what they want. I'm there to serve their musical vision and the song. We can establish a system where we each make suggestions and see which one sounds better to them, but in the end, it's their call. I have no qualms with this. Once I do, I'm not serving the song, only myself.

That's my point of view...
 
hmm... i guess i gota problem cuz i dont take kindly on ppl thrashn on my playn not many ppl do it anymore lol but ya i have noticed with other peopl and its a pain
 
Hmmm, I haven't had this problem. But I haven't had much experience working with other musicians. The closest I've had was earlier today whaen my (guitarist) friend and I were dicussing time signatures and he said "What? You can't have seven beats in a bar..." :p
 
Third, I do have this happen, but the person suggesting the drum part is often the person writing the check at the end of the night/session, so it's my job to do what they want. I'm there to serve their musical vision and the song. We can establish a system where we each make suggestions and see which one sounds better to them, but in the end, it's their call. I have no qualms with this. Once I do, I'm not serving the song, only myself.


Exactly. If its their band, do what they say. If its your band, do what you want. If its no one in particular's band, it probably won't last long because of "creative differences" (temper tantrums).
 
Hmmm, I haven't had this problem. But I haven't had much experience working with other musicians. The closest I've had was earlier today whaen my (guitarist) friend and I were dicussing time signatures and he said "What? You can't have seven beats in a bar..." :p

I once had a guitarist tell me about a 3/5th time signature he set his metronome to.
I have no idea what that would sound like. I reckon a lot like a 3/4?

To get back on topic though, I once had a bass player in a band for a one-off project who was also a good drummer tell me everything I needed to do. That was annoying. I can take criticism and I appreciate people's ideas but this bass player was really getting on my nerves.
 
All that I can say is that, hopefully, this isn't indicative of a real personality conflict, and is just musical differences. If it's real conflict, the music will suffer. Everything else should be able to be ironed out with some good communication. GOODLUCK!
 
If its no one in particular's band, it probably won't last long because of "creative differences" (temper tantrums).

It depends on the maturity level in the group. If everyone is willing to give and take a little, then there's no reason that everybody shouldn't be happy with the final result. Often times the process of writing or arranging tunes comes down to "what is best for the song"? It's when somebody in the group wants THEIR voice to be heard over everyone elses' most of/all the time that there is an obvious problem.
 
I was fortunate in that I never had that problem in the bands I was in. I am not a songwriter so I understood the person writing the song might have a particular drum part in mind and I had no problem with that. I've had beats and fills recommended to me and for the most part I was Ok with that. I was usually given the freedom to come up with my own licks and it seemed to work out just fine. Drum tuning and stuff like that was never suggested to me, as it shouldn't, that's personal.
 
This is where it's best to suck it up and try their ideas. Sometimes it works out to be better than you could have done on your own. It's what you have to do to be in a band. Do it with a great attitude. Yea you are being a little sensitive, and you have to get past that. No disrespect meant to you at all, we've all been there. Don't be closed minded to others ideas, or you won't hear them. Which way would you rather it be?
 
I once was asked to be in a band where the bandleader was a highly respected drummer in a fairly well known group. He wanted to front a band doing all his own originals and play guitar. Obviously he knew exactly what he wanted for each song, knew the snare and bass sound he wanted, and I had no problem. It was his band, his songs, his financing.
 
Everything Caddy said.......... + Respect.

As long as things are collaborative and said with mutual respect its cool. Other players do sometimes have a tendency to tell drummers to try and play what in 'their heads' as a drum part..I do the same to other musicians, so that's cool too

What I do have issue with is people who think drums are something that 'backs' the 'music'.
...As though rhythm, is not a part of the music. Sadly, some drummers think like this too.

..oh, the agony of it all.
 
What I do have issue with is people who think drums are something that 'backs' the 'music'.
...As though rhythm, is not a part of the music. Sadly, some drummers think like this too.

..oh, the agony of it all.

I second this. Some people see the drums as merely a metronome so they can keep time. I tell people who think this that they shouldn't play in a band if they can't keep time by themself. I do not operate a $2500 metronome.
 
The best way to neutralise this kind of character is to come to the table brimming with musical knowledge yourself. Know your theory and how that fits with bandcraft and songwriting. If your ideas are good, the band will have little choice but to allow you room to do your thing. Unfortunately, in rare cases, a guitarist's ego can be terminal. If it's truly going nowhere, know when to cut your losses.
 
I've received hints and instructions pertaining to my drum parts throughout my playing career, and I've grown to expect my band mates to give any criticism or suggestions they might have. The drum part should fit the song, and if they see a problem, I want them to point it out. And, if the songwriter is present, I'll strive to fulfill his vision to the best of my ability. On a no-rehearsal-no-sheet-music sub gig, nothing's more reassuring than a band mate who knows the songs by heart and is able to cue the changes and time feels.

Sometimes it takes several different perspectives to see or hear things in their true, full form. Many instrumentalists may get too obsessed with their own part that they completely forget the big picture: a drummer might drown out the lyrics with a big "cool" fill (guilty as charged!), a guitarist might play a "cool" phrase or a "cool" chord that happens to be way out of key; a vocalist might start singing his lines on "three" instead of "one" etc. It often takes an outsider to point out these flaws that seem perfectly right to the person who made the musical choices in the first place.

Healthy communication between all band members is vital for your growth as musicians and as a band. Remember that the discourse should flow both ways: if you find a flaw or, better yet, if you have an idea that'd make the music better, spit it out. Be respectful and be humble. Sometimes it's a good idea to ask your band members for ideas, and quite often they come up with stuff that's beyond your own imagination. After all, they have no clue how drums are supposed to be played, and their lack of preconceptions usually guarantees a more fresh approach.
 
I also agree with caddywumpus. The money guy dictates it any way he wants, to any instrumentalist he /she is paying, as does the musical director, as does the producer. And don't be so convinced that non drummers can't tell you things about percussion/ band interaction that aren't entirely correct. After all, that's why someone is paying them to direct. But you do draw the line when they try to correct your technique, because that's an internal issue, unless that director is also your teacher.

Again, I think what we're talking about here is the leaderless communal so called equal say band. And for the life of me I don't know why so many people think those arrangements ever work, especially for the drummer. I also see so many complaints about guitarists on this board. I was once in a communal Led Zepplin cover band, where the guitarist wasted no time to introduce me as his drummer, then tried to tell me how to play Moby Dick. Well, I gave all that about 10 minutes, and the next gig he was playing with a different drummer. Afterwards I swore off the equal say arrangements, because no matter how hard you try to avoid it, someone in that kind of band is going evil. Bank it.

Of course the other thing would be for more drummers to save some cash, and invest a little in their own band. Then call the practices and rehearse your band yourself. That would end this whole thing but quick. Sooner than later, that will end up being my strategy.
 
I second this. Some people see the drums as merely a metronome so they can keep time.

... especially AC/DC drummers and Charley Watts do..... may be their band leaders think the same.... it seems they enjoy and makes lots of money.

on the other hand, Keith Moon invented a different way of drumming which makes the drum teachers uncomfortable.
 
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