Snare drums... can't decide...

Dipschmidt

Senior Member
I can't decide between the ludwig 400 series 14x5 supraphonic or the 14x5 black magic.
I really want a snare drum with tube lugs, and i know the black magic has those, but im not sure about the supraphonics, but what's going to be the main sound difference between them? I'm not concerned about price or anything, but man that black magic sure looks nice, and with die-cast hoops... hmm...
 
You'll be able to order the supra with tube lugs Dips.

Sound diffs. will be, one is a seamless aluminium shell and one is a brass shell with a seam. Supra will be a little drier sounding and the brass will have more of a ring. Both good drums, I own two supra's and have only played the BM at a drum store. I liked it, but have no need for one as I already own a black beauty too.

For an all round versitile snare that's capable of sounding great in just about any playing situation, go for the supra. But don't take my word for it. Try 'em both and let your own ears decide. Both good choices mate IMO.
 
I think I'm leaning towards black magic...
Also, what size would have less overtone/ring? 14x5 or 14x6.5?
 
Cool.

I'm not sure the depth has much bearing on the overtones as such (but I could be wrong). I feel the depth will have more to do with the overall tone of the drum. The 6.5 being a deeper/throatier sound than the 5. But being a brass shell, you have to expect some overtones. Although the die cast hoops should help control this. The supra certainly has less ring to it.

I have both the 5 and 6.5 supras and a 6.5 BB. My take on it is that you can tune the 6.5 up to give you a higher tone similar to the 5, but you can't get a 5 to sound deep like the 6.5. Realistically I'd probably reccommend the 6.5 as I find the size to be more versitile, but that said, I do love my LM400 too.

Can you try both? A/B-ing them side by side will be the best option to help you decide.
 
Oh yeah, before I make my final decision ill test them both out. But a dampener (particularly moongel) would eliminate the ring without making it sound too "fat" right?
 
But a dampener (particularly moongel) would eliminate the ring without making it sound too "fat" right?

Yep.......but it does seem a shame to spend all that money on a beautiful drum, that by it's very nature (brass) is designed to ring out a little and then put moongel all over it. Having said that, there's certainly been times when I've needed to dampen my snare so I'm not totally anti dampening. But is it possible you're being driven by looks and not sound here? Brass shells ring.....simple as that.
 
But is it possible you're being driven by looks and not sound here? Brass shells ring.....simple as that.

Eh, I think that may be so. One thing's for sure, if I get one, I'll definitely get the other one during the summer when I get the money from a summer job. I think what I might do is get the supra, put die-cast hoops on them but definitely order it with the tube lugs. It might just be me, but man, I think those tube lugs are beautiful. :p
 
Even if you are Dips, that's fine by me. I certainly wasn't having a dig at you....just a question was all.

Getting both????................now you're talking!!

Yep, the tubes do look the biz. All mine are imperial lugs, but that's got more to do with the fact that they are more readily available here in Oz. If I had to place a special order with Ludwig, I'd be 150 by the time it made it's way downunder!!

Either way, I think you're making a good choice. But I always add my disclaimer. I am unashamedly biased towards Ludwig snares. There's just something about 'em that I find magical.

Good luck whichever way you lean. And be sure to keep us updated on your choice hey.

Cheers.
 
Supra it is! Depending on how much money I'll have from my summer job, I might just go even bigger, and get a brass black beauty. Thanks!
 
the black magic has diecast hoops which has alot of effect on the sound of the drum. diecast hoops dry the sound out. I was very close to buying a black magic, but I ended up getting a cob gretsch instead.

I would describe the backbeat as a nice dry tone that is musical and sits well in a mix. not cutting, not ringing. It is a little bit brighter than my gretsch and ultimately thats why I went with the gretsch.

honestly I would take a 400 over a black magic though. they have a classic sound that can't really be beat or substituted by anything else. When I hear a 400 it just sounds like what a snare drum should be.
 
Now you're REALLY talking!!!

Roll your sleeves up and fill your boots man.....get that BB.

Best of luck.

Oh yeah, that brass on brass BB looks mighty fine. But about the supra, should I put some die-cast hoops on it, or leave it be? I'll probably get the 14x6.5 instead of 14x5. After all, like you said, it is more versatile.
 
get it with regular hoops, unless you already have a snare with the same lug pattern, then get your new snare with cast hoops, then you have 4 options instead of 2.


1 maple snare with diecast 10 lug
1 metal snare with triple flanged 10 lug

then you have 4 options!
 
get it with regular hoops, unless you already have a snare with the same lug pattern, then get your new snare with cast hoops, then you have 4 options instead of 2.

I think I'll order the snare with regular hoops, test it out with different tuning and what not, and if im not satisfied ill get die-casts.
 
I like the black magic quite a bit, I have the 13x7, and it's a great little drum (Got mine for like 299 even new). If I had to pick between the 14 supra or BM I might go Supra instead. I have 3 other 14's so thats why I bought the 13 inch BM.
 
But about the supra, should I put some die-cast hoops on it, or leave it be? I'll probably get the 14x6.5 instead of 14x5. After all, like you said, it is more versatile.

I agree with Mcbike here, I'd leave it Dips, but that is only my opinion........make of it what you will. The only changes I've made to any of my Luddies is a head swap (emps over snare ambs on all of 'em). But I'd encourage you to try whatever you feel will work best. Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say. You can always switch back if you don't like it.
 
+1 for the 14 x 6.5 no matter which model you choose. I have the 14 x 5 BB super sensitive and as nice as it is, I'm always envious when I hear the deeper shell model.

At least I got a screamin' deal on mine!
 
If you really gotta have the tube lugs and the die cast hoops, you might as well get the Black Magic. If you get those options on a Supra it's gonna cost you a lot more. Or, you pick up a used one for a great price, then you could order some tube lugs that fit the 400 perfectly from a site like Drum Maker. Personally, I prefer the classic and unique look of the imperial lugs. There's plenty of modern snares out there already that have tube lugs.
 
Cool.

I'm not sure the depth has much bearing on the overtones as such (but I could be wrong). I feel the depth will have more to do with the overall tone of the drum. The 6.5 being a deeper/throatier sound than the 5. But being a brass shell, you have to expect some overtones. Although the die cast hoops should help control this. The supra certainly has less ring to it.

I have both the 5 and 6.5 supras and a 6.5 BB. My take on it is that you can tune the 6.5 up to give you a higher tone similar to the 5, but you can't get a 5 to sound deep like the 6.5. Realistically I'd probably reccommend the 6.5 as I find the size to be more versitile, but that said, I do love my LM400 too.

Can you try both? A/B-ing them side by side will be the best option to help you decide.

What particular situations do you really like your 5" for? I'm having second thoughts about getting the 5" aluminum sensitone. The thing is I can't afford to have multiple snare drums at different tunings for different applications. Though I know the 6.5" will be more versatile, I would predominantly play at a high tuning with a lot of "crack". I guess i tend to go for a Tim Alexander kind of sound. Because of this should I stick with the 5"?
 
What particular situations do you really like your 5" for? .................... Because of this should I stick with the 5"?

Hey mate.

I used to play in a rock/funk outfit (RHCP type stuff), for this situation I'd have the batter cranked quite tight and it really gave a killer sounding crack with just enough ring. To my ear, it was the perfect snare for that particular band.....I just found it to be better suited in that situation than the deeper 402 (didn't have the BB then so can't compare it). Just a little more 'pop' than 'punch' if that makes any sense?!?!?

I gotta be completely honest with you though and stipulate that my main affection for this snare is that my father gave it to me when I was younger. It was my first peice of 'real' equipment and I've cherished it since the day he handed it over. It was his spare and a vintage model ('66).....so really, sentimental reasons play a large part here. Whether or not it actually sounded better or I just found reasons to justify it sounding better will remain a mystery I guess. But, I always found a use for it (as I did with all my snares) and it never sat idle on my shelf for long.

As for which you should get....I'm a hard one to ask as I'm in a position where I can chop and change and can come up with any reason (whether real or percieved), to use all my snares. If I were to reccommend though, I'd still say go the 402 for sheer versitility.

Very long winded answer....I apologise....but hope it helps some.
 
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