Ludwig Supraphonic 402 - Smooth or Hammered?... Imperial or Tube Lugs? Help!

damon

Junior Member
Hi everyone,

I am new to the forum, but an avid reader here. I am hoping some of you can shed some light on my dilemma...

I've definitely considered buying a Supraphonic LM402 snare and have been debating between the smooth or hammered shell as well as imperial or tube lugs. It's a bit hard to find a store that has all of the model variations available to test out. I have heard the classic imperial lug smooth shell and like it quite a bit.

But I have questions...

-Is the sound of the hammered shell much different to a smooth shell?
(I have been told that the sound is a bit dryer w/ less ring... true?)

-Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the differences between the two? Your thoughts?

-And finally, would tube lugs noticeably open up the sound more on the hammered and even the smooth shell?


Thanks in advanced for any info you guys can throw my way!


-Damon
 
In my opinion the short tube lugs look odd on a 402, the Imperial lugs look much more at home on that drum to me.

As far as hammered vs. smooth, I haven't noticed a significant difference in the sound. I think the hammered shell is visually more interesting, but your mileage may vary.
 
-Is the sound of the hammered shell much different to a smooth shell?
(I have been told that the sound is a bit dryer w/ less ring... true?)

True.

-Has anyone had the opportunity to hear the differences between the two? Your thoughts?

Not on a supra, but I've a/b'd a hammered and non-hammered Black Beauty. Again, the hammering seems to take away some of the overtones.....we're not talking night and day here, but there is definitely less ring.

-And finally, would tube lugs noticeably open up the sound more on the hammered and even the smooth shell?

I've read that they do, to a degree.....albeit slight. All my Luddies have Imperial lugs though, so I can't give you a definite answer there.
 
-Is the sound of the hammered shell much different to a smooth shell?
(I have been told that the sound is a bit dryer w/ less ring... true?)

-And finally, would tube lugs noticeably open up the sound more on the hammered and even the smooth shell?



So close in sound its a wash, get the one that looks best to you.

Best to me is hammered. Who want's a plain old 'dime a dozen' smooth shell when they can have hammered?




In my opinion the short tube lugs look odd on a 402, the Imperial lugs look much more at home on that drum to me.



I like smooth LUDWIG cans with classic lugs (more manly) over IMPERIAL or tube.

Hammered needs tube, IMPERIAL too limp wristed looking on anything IMO.



Is it just me, or does anyone else draw blood on a finger when they play LUDWIG snares? Damn those sharp hoops.


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I have both.

Both have Imperial lugs, but I tried tubes on them. Just seemed more "right" with the Imperial lugs..but my 400 has tubes.

HammeredChrome.jpg


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The Hammered is a little drier, and there's a little less of the classic "thonk" sound you can get from a 402.
 
One thing I've seen discussed on here that PFOG alluded to is lug splay with the imperial lugs. Ludwig has put a band-aid on this by adding gaskets under the lugs that someone on here a/b'd and noticed that the gaskets were drying out the shell, so he took them off.

Tube lugs get rid of the lug splay since they ride higher but are less forgiving wrt tension rod alignment.

My LM402 has Imperial lugs (I love that art deco design that's been around since forever) with no gaskets, so it has that splay. I like tube lugs on just about any other snare, but for the metal Luddies, it's just gotta be Imperial lugs.

FWIW I never liked the bowtie lugs. If I ever come into possession of an Acro, I'll put tube or Imperial lugs on it.
 
Thanks for the input so far! I love hearing feedback from users.

I think we are all on track with sound differences. Seems to be subtle.

Mike, I have also been reading that as well regarding the lug splay. Seems to not effect the drum too much. Although to me, I would think that tension force directed most vertical during the tightening of a head would help aid in being more direct and . That's just me though...

Jeremy, I actually did see that video, but it seems like the way it was tuned/miked that it really isn't singing the way it should... I don't know.

Karl, I noticed in another post while I was browsing the forum that the hammered supra pictured was recommended by Alex Van Halen! That's pretty interesting. I've read he has played supraphonics/supersensitives for a long time and a rosewood snare as well, hence his signature model release last year.

Winston, You mentioned that the mileage may vary on the hammered shell... what were you referring too... longevity of the shell construction or...?

**Another question comes to mind... Would switching out the flanged hoops to die-cast on the Supra cause a significant change in sound? More choked?


As always, thank you for the continued information...
 
Yep, it was and it's also signed on the inside by Bun E. Carlos.

Notice on the two drums there ISN'T "splay" on the rods.

I took the gaskets off the smooth 402, I didn't like how it sounded with them.
Still no rod splay....maybe I just take my time tensioning?

I use Remo low collar snare side heads, maybe that has something to do with it?

I have seen it on other drums, but I can't say mine have it.

If you got a micrometer out & there is some, it's so slight I don't even notice it.

I have no explanation on why my drums don't have rod "splay" other than taking time putting the rods in and making sure the head is as even as it can be all the way around.
Even if they had some, I wouldn't give a crap because the drum sounds the way I want, and it's easy to get it to sound that way.
I've never had a lug break because of being made of monkey metal in 35 years either.
But, that's just my experience, so...whatever.

I tried Tubes on the two 402's, but with the Hammered, you couldn't see them, and I kinda just liked the smooth the way it was.

I have Tubes on the Brass BB's, Imps on the Bronze BB, Classic (bowties) on the Red Sparkle CM (soon to be Black Glass Glitter!) for nostalgic reasons (drooled over that Maple 6.5 in the 1980 catalog), the Acro's (5 & 6.5) have Classic lugs.

I have Tubes on the 1964 400. I put straight hoops and claws on the 400 and there's still no rod splay.
I also have a World Max BB copy with Tubes and straight hoops (BTW, Ludwig's Tube Lugs are nicer than the World Max TL's).

I like all the different style lugs, so it depends on the drum for me.

Plenty of pics of both styles, so it's not very hard to A/B....but it'll be hard to decide when I finally take the plunge on a 6.5 Bronze haha!
At least I decide it will be a smooth shell....

Oh, a C.S. Black Dot sounds pretty dang cool on that Hammered 402.
 
**Another question comes to mind... Would switching out the flanged hoops to die-cast on the Supra cause a significant change in sound? More choked?
Short answer, yes, it will.

I wasn't too fond of the 1.6s (or 1.9s or whatever they are) hoops that come standard on these snare because they sounded great when playing rimshots, but seemed weak if hit any other way. So first I tried putting die cast hoops on but got the opposite effect: drum sounded phenomenal when hit dead center without a rimshot, but a rimshot seemed too harsh for my ears (and it was losing that characteristic 402 sound too much).

So I decided that 2.3s would probably be what I wanted and it just came down to std triple flanged or S-Hoops. I decided on S-Hoops and they were great, but swapped to 2.3 triple flanged because I wanted the S-Hoops on my brass snare. I may one day get another set of S-Hoops for the 402 (but they don't look quite right is the only thing...but nothing I can't deal with).
 
Hmmm...

Although, I am still indecisive... I am leaning a bit towards the hammered / tube combination...

I also figure that if I want to try the imperial lugs (for some reason), I could do what Karl has done and swap them out. Thankfully I am crafty that way and it's not hard to do.

Still not 100% sure yet.


Wow!... So I just called a local guitar center (not my favorite store) just to see if by chance they had a hammered Supra available to play and they said, "Yes, we have a standard LM402 Supraphonic in stock." I then asked, "Do you happen to have a hammered one available too?" He replied, "No, just the standard smooth chrome plated stainless steel one." I took a double take and for kicks asked, "Which one again? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, my line has some static." He then repeated, "Just the smooth chrome plated stainless steel Supraphonic."

-Oh my!!! (Insert sarcasm... here).
 
Winston, You mentioned that the mileage may vary on the hammered shell... what were you referring too... longevity of the shell construction or...?

All I meant was that some people love the look of a hammered shell, others prefer the more classic smooth appearance. Personally, I love the look of the hammered shell, especially the chrome ones.

:)
 
I have heard the smooth and hammered 402 and I really liked both. I recall that the hammered had evans on it. My buying decision would be for the hammered 402 with tubes. But you wouldn't go wrong with either. The differences in sound to me are minimal. An audience would never know the difference; they are looking at the singer!

Pull the trigger and start enjoying!

GJS
 
Hmmm...
Wow!... So I just called a local guitar center (not my favorite store) just to see if by chance they had a hammered Supra available to play and they said, "Yes, we have a standard LM402 Supraphonic in stock." I then asked, "Do you happen to have a hammered one available too?" He replied, "No, just the standard smooth chrome plated stainless steel one." I took a double take and for kicks asked, "Which one again? I'm sorry, I couldn't hear you, my line has some static." He then repeated, "Just the smooth chrome plated stainless steel Supraphonic."

-Oh my!!! (Insert sarcasm... here).

There is a NEW Stainless Steel model snare. It's within the Black Magic line.
It has a polished SS shell with Black Nickle plated hardware.
That might be what the GC person was talking about... I won't put much stock in that, but you never know haha!

I asked someone (a Ludwig endorser) about it right after the NAMM show, and they gave it a solid 8 if I remember correctly.
 
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