Snare Buzz Caused By Bass Guitar

I realize there are other threads on this topic but I wanted to go into detail on an issue I’m having with sympathetic snare buzz that is being caused by the positioning of bass guitar amplifiers.

I've got my drums tuned up nicely. If I play my kit alone there is no excessive sympathetic snare buzz. So my issue isn’t in the way my drums are tuned.
However, I've noticed that bass instruments (usually electric bass) can cause my drums to resonate on their own. This happens when certain frequencies are played on the bass when the bass amp is within approximately 2 feet of my drums. The volume of the bass does not seem to be an issue (I’ve played extremely loud rock gigs before without a problem as long as the bass amp is 3 feet or more away from my drums). This problem seems to be almost entirely based on proximity of the bass sound source and (b which pitch the bass produces at any given moment.

When this occurs my snare drum emits really loud sympathetic snare buzz. To make matters worse, because the buzz is excited only by certain frequencies, it starts and stops abruptly which makes it very noticeable. For a loud rock gig when everyone is constantly playing at a high level of volume and the music contains very little sonic space this isn’t as much of a problem. However, I played a ballroom dancing gig the other night where we were are playing very quietly and because of the proximity of the bass amp my snare was emitting a lot of loud sympathetic snare buzz. I do about 120 gigs a year and only experience this once in a while but when it happens it is kind of annoying.

The bass player was not playing particularly loud. It was entirely because of the proximity of the bass amp. I know that it was being caused by the bass because the buzz would happen in time with what the bass player was playing and would light up on certain pitches. I knew this because it would get better or worse depending on what key the band was playing in (the notes that were setting the snare off were played more or less often in certain keys so on some songs there wasn’t a problem).

Obviously this was a problem because we were trying to play subtle ballroom dancing music and the music had some sonic space in it. So when I'm playing a cross stick 8th note groove on a ballad it sounds really bad if the snare is making all sorts of racket that has nothing to do with the music. I assume it is less obvious the further you walk away from the kit and obviously it didn’t ruin the gig, but I still think it's a problem.

Again, I have trouble shot this and have figured out that it is caused entirely by the proximity of the bass sound source and by the specific frequencies produced. I know this because a) my drums do not create extreme sympathetic snare buzz on their own b) I have played in situations with extremely loud bass guitar and not experienced this problem as long as the amp was 3 or more feet away from my drums c) it only occurs when the amp is within about 2 feet of my drums and happens in time with what the bass player is playing on certain pitches.

I don’t want to completely eliminate the minimal and natural sympathetic snare buzz that my drums produce on their own because the sound of drums and cymbals acoustically interacting with one another is part of what makes an acoustic drum set sound like an acoustic drum set (as opposed to a midi/triggered drum set). The amount of snare buzz caused by my own kit is within an exceptable range as is anyways. I simply want to find a way to eliminate this issue of extreme snare buzz caused by the proximity of the bass amp.

An obvious answer would be to set the bass amp up in a way in which this does not occur. However, this is not always possible due to space limitations and imperfect gig conditions. Changing the tuning of the drums is not an option either because a) that is not the source of the problem in the first place b) I like the way they are tuned and c) changing the tuning of the drums would only shift which bass frequencies would cause the buzz.

Are there any tricks or special gear anyone knows of that could help to solve this problem?

Suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Cheers
 
What is happening is that the drums are resonating at their fundamental frequency. That is why it is only on particular notes. Same with the snare buzz.
So anything you can do to stop that resonation will cure it. What about a sound shield?
 
One thing I have done to limit snare ring is to get a little piece of paper about 8x8cm or so, then fold it along the middle, and tuck it under the snare wires. It will help but not completely stop it and it doesn't harm the sound of the snare too much. Place it near the edge of the snare wires rather than the middle.

I have noticed that the ring happens less in larger places, or where there is less reflection. Obviously you cant control this if you are playing a gig at a certain place, but just an observation I have made.

Lastly I would suggest playing with the eq settings on the bass cab, and see if this has any effect. Obviously it is specific frequencies that are causing this, so see if you can remove them using eq.

Unfortunately bass ring is a common problem and a most annoying one. It is difficult to get rid of and can be a pain if recording many instruments at once. Anyway, hope this helps and will be interested to see what other people suggest to fix this problem.

Edit: Yes it most probably is their resonating at fundamental frequency, but it will still occur at more than one note. I find that the pitches of fundamental frequency are accentuated with snare buzz, but the buzz will occur at other notes too. Almost all instruments have overtones, drums just have the most.
 
Obviously this was a problem because we were trying to play subtle ballroom dancing music and the music had some sonic space in it. So when I'm playing a cross stick 8th note groove on a ballad it sounds really bad if the snare is making all sorts of racket that has nothing to do with the music. I assume it is less obvious the further you walk away from the kit and obviously it didn’t ruin the gig, but I still think it's a problem.

This is gonna come across as hugely obvious and probably a little condescending, so I apologise - but have you considered just flipping your strainer to the 'off' position when cross-sticking? That way, there is no buzz, and it's but the work of a microsecond to flip the strainer to 'on'. I'm assuming the snare buzz isn't as much of a problem when you're playing the snare normally, as one would barely notice given that you're hitting it and activating the snares anyway.

This suggestion obviously doesn't solve the problem, but minimises it.
 
Are you sure the audience can even hear it? Sure, the drummer can hear it, straddling the snare drum. But sympathetic snare buzz isn't really very loud, not remotely at the level of playing the drum. And it's just a fuzzy white noise, with no real tone from heads or shell, so it doesn't cut or travel far in a room.

It may be annoying, but you may just be well enough off ignoring it.
 
Thanks everyone,

I’ll respond to each of you individually:

Thud: Yes, it is the fundamental resonating frequency of the drum/drum heads etc… Good idea, a drum shield would work wonders to resolve this. If I simply had one on the side of the bass amp it would block the bass frequencies from interacting with my kit somewhat while not blocking the drums from the audience (assuming the shield would block enough of the bass frequencies, I know bass frequencies can travel pretty good). Good call though.

Galadrm: Thanks. I will give that piece of paper a try. Good suggestion. Yes, you are right. It isn’t just one pitch. For example, if it was an F# that was exciting the drum you can pretty much guess that the fourth below and the fifth above that would also excite it while the semi tone and major 2nd above and below it would have no effect. Yes, to completely solve this problem it would also require some action on the bass in terms of e.q. and amp placement on stage. Thanks for the paper idea.

Major panic: Flipping the snare strainer off could work in a pinch but it completely changes the sound of the cross stick and the entire kit so I’d rather not do that. This particular type of snare buzz is a lot louder then normal snare buzz because it is being caused by low bass guitar frequencies that resonate the drum and drum heads. Because it was only happening when certain bass notes were played it would start and stop abruptly which made it more noticeable. I was playing a quiet ball room dancing gig (union job) and needed to play very softly for a lot of the gig. At times the buzz was louder (or at least at the same volume) as my actual playing so it was noticeable even when I was playing the snare (and the snare buzz caused durations of buzz that were much longer then then the duration created when I simply hit the drum for a back beat).

Soupy: You are right, normal snare buzz isn’t a big deal and the audience doesn’t really notice it. My snare buzzes a bit on most gigs I play from the kit resonation and even other instruments resonating it. However, this type of snare buzz was being caused by frequencies created by the bass amp which were causing the snares to resonate at a startling level of volume and some of the audience must have heard it (though not if they were 20 feet away I’m sure). I was playing a quiet ball room dancing gig (union job) and at times it seemed as though the buzz was louder then some of my playing so unfortunately this situation requires some kind of solution. But you are right, in most cases it is simply an on stage issue that doesn’t affect front of house.

jornthedrummer: hehe. Nice.

Anyways, thanks everyone! Some good ideas.
 
I’m having with sympathetic snare buzz that is being caused by the positioning of bass guitar amplifiers.

This problem seems to be almost entirely based on proximity of the bass sound source

...because of the proximity of the bass amp my snare was emitting a lot of loud sympathetic snare buzz.

It was entirely because of the proximity of the bass amp.

I simply want to find a way to eliminate this issue of extreme snare buzz caused by the proximity of the bass amp.



OK, seems like you've got it narrowed it down to where the bass player sets up his amp.





An obvious answer would be to set the bass amp up in a way in which this does not occur. However, this is not always possible due to space limitations and imperfect gig conditions.

It should always be possible, if the bass player is willing. So employ the tested 3' rule, or have him set-up on the other side if there isn't 3'

Even better is draw an imaginary line across the front of the snare, ask bass player to set the face of his amp up in front of that line.

Also tighten your snare wires. You can say its not the sound you're after, but if the bass is 'interruptus maximus', you're not getting your sound anyway, so might as well try something new.
 
You can DIY a small drum shield with some plywood and a couple hinges, and a coat of paint. Cheap, mIght just make enough of a difference. Maybe two 3' x3' panels of at least 1/2" or 3/4" plywood? Or three panels to surround the bass cab on the back/sides? Paint it black, or even to match the bass cab.
 
If possible, try moving your snare drums resonant frequency away from that of the bass player. I have no idea how your snare drum is tuned, but I always start here. The next step would be your location on stage in relation to the bass amp. Sometimes adjusting the tuning of the snare drum along with tighter snares and physical location is what is needed to put a band aid on the problem. There are also Equalizer snare wires made by Puresound that might alleviate some of your problems, but my guess is that they won't be very effective under your current conditions.

Dennis
 
Soupy: Thanks! Seems to like a good project for me to work on.

Audio Tech: Thanks. I think you’re right, physical location is a big part of this. In terms of tuning, I use a tunebot which has worked great for tuning and I can tune the drum to any fundimental frequency within the drums tuning range. I find though that by doing that I’m simply shifting which notes on the bass will resonate it but maybe I could try tuning it to a quarter tone in between standard pitchs in the A440 system. Unfortunately it seems that whatever the resonating pitch of the shells or heads there is always a quarter to semi tone on either side of that pitch that also lights it up so I don’t know if I would be able to get outside of that light up range. Worth playing with it though if I can get a better sound. Thanks!

Les Ismore: You’re right, even when space is an issue we can at least try to set up the bass amp on the side that puts it furthest from the snare. Yes, in this case I’d be willing to make concessions on my ideal snare sound to just get rid of the buzz for the rare night when this is an issue, so tightening the snare wires is one of the things I tried on the spot (some affect). You’re right, in this case the sound isn’t what I want anyways so why not try something else if it helps solve the problem.

vxla: Thanks. I’ll look into those :)
 
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