Brush technique

Just curious what people think of various brush techniques. I was watching the Ed Soph Evans series and he proposes one based on 'sideways Moeller'. More than anything it reminds me of DJ scratching: instead of tapping the ride pattern you play it with a long 1 and a 'scratched' 2& with a stop-and-start of the right hand.

It's interesting but it would take a long time to retrain my hands. I tend to play brushes like sticks, which is probably not great, but I'm sure lots of drummers got pretty far with that technique. So I'm leaning towards sticking with that and seeing what I can find.

What do you think?
 
Just curious what people think of various brush techniques. I was watching the Ed Soph Evans series and he proposes one based on 'sideways Moeller'. More than anything it reminds me of DJ scratching: instead of tapping the ride pattern you play it with a long 1 and a 'scratched' 2& with a stop-and-start of the right hand.

It's interesting but it would take a long time to retrain my hands. I tend to play brushes like sticks, which is probably not great, but I'm sure lots of drummers got pretty far with that technique. So I'm leaning towards sticking with that and seeing what I can find.

What do you think?

I'm a fan of working on as many techniques as possible so that when I'm playing I don't have to rely on a pattern per se. I certainly have certain patterns that I fall back on for time keeping. If you've got the straight up and down thing happening, working on your lateral motions will simply give you more options to create feels and colour in your brush playing to suit the situation.

If you're not doing a lot of brush playing or it just doesn't interest you, then perhaps it's not worth the time.
 
Here's a link to a video of Jeff Hamilton talking about "the lateral motion".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcaIW7NVD3U

If you decide to keep using brushes like sticks, you might want to dampen the drums. I place a folded dish cloth on one corner (so to speak) of the snare drum, leave the snares on, use brushes like sticks, and it sounds good. It's not a brush sound, but it's a great way to practice quietly and I prefer it to electronic drums.

As for the actual brush sound, I was surprised to find how individual it is. It seems almost everybody has their own distinctive approach.
 
Brushes aren't really intended to be played like sticks, they're meant to glide in some way. Brushes don't really have sharp hits and attack, they are meant to provide a different texture.

Like someone else mentioned, each player has their own way of playing brushes (look at Ed Thigpen's videos compared to Peter Erskine), but the principle of gliding and lateral motion are pretty constant accross genres and styles.

If you want to play like sticks, but want lower volume, then look into smaller sticks or hot rods.

Check out some of these brush exercises at Vic Firth:

http://www.vicfirth.com/exchange/tag/the-complete-guide-to-playing-brushes/
 
i like to go by a general rule that at least one hand should be brushing (otherwise why bother with "brushes") you can stick accents and ghost notes all you like slapping it too-also play drum rolls in a fill (rolling the brush is cool too). I'll switch up which hand is brushing and I like traditional and matched grip with either hand too. Although I'm a matched grip stick man with brushes the traditional feels really good with brushes-and oddly with either hand. But remember it's the "sound" so as long as you get that then how you brush in circles or swishing side to side, etc really don't matter-find what works for you. I watched all the "brushes" videos on Drummerworld, etc and tried to mimic them (which have the same idea just all do it a bit differently) and finally conceded to what ever felt natural to get the "sound" and works for me-getting too technical was a distraction it felt mechanical. Thus the hodgepodge of grips and which hand is brushing-if not both. Probably my subconscious integrated all the hodgepodge of videos I watched LOL.
 
The main reason for brushes coming into existence was to provide the softer sweeping sounds you hear on jazz classics and ballads. But sure, you can use them like sticks also. They are great for playing a "train beat" on some of the Americana-type music. There are no rules, really.

It seems like most of the master drummers say that brush technique is very individual, and I think that's true. How you get the sound is less important than the sound you get.
 
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. When I say I "play brushes like sticks" I mainly mean grip. I use matched American grip. So when I started playing brushes I just held them in American grip and like most students first learned "sweep with left, tap with right".

As Ed Soph says, this is very limiting. And lots of other brush masters have mentioned getting both hands in on the sweeping and being able to do accents and comping with either hand.

But Ed's system - his approach to holding and playing the brushes - seemed unique to me. There's undoubtedly a whole school of thought that plays that way, what you know just depends on who you talk to and I'd never heard of it before. And I have nothing against it. But man it's a task to learn.

I do like brushes quite a bit. And I'm not scared of working hard or trying new things. But when I watch Max Roach play using a pretty standard grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS-xiX64HGQ

(yes people bag on that video but it shows his grip and we all know the guy could play)

Or Ed Thigpen with his weird, unique grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecIpU5jVBUA

Or my hero Joe Morello's perfectly standard grip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CVKbXn_UGg

I get paralyzed by options. Whereas 'how to hold a drumstick' and 'how to strike a drum with a stick' are somewhat settled questions, it seems like everybody has a 'THE way to play brushes', and I'm just looking for the one that people have had the most success with. Because life is finite and there are a million things to practice.

Thanks!
 
I get paralyzed by options.

I know that feeling.

I watched one video that suggested we should "imitate the sound, not the movement" when playing brushes. Great advice. I wish I could remember whose video it was.

...I'm just looking for the one that people have had the most success with.

It sounds like you've found it. Most people start with trad grip, lateral motion, sweep left, tap right... then start modifying and adding techniques. As with everything else, stick to the basics at first.
 
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For those seeking a way to get a long, fat swing brush sound using matched grip, you can try the following.

Begin with RH at 3 o'clock, LH at 9 o'clock.

RH plays a tap on 1 and LH sweeps clockwise to arrive @ 3 o'clock on beat 2. RH crosses over LH (in air) to land at 9 o'clock on beat 2.

RH begins clockwise sweep toward 3 o'clock, lifting off the head at 2 o'clock to tap on beat 3.
LH continues clockwise sweep from 3 o'clock to 9 o'clock, accelerating on the last triplet partial of beat 2 to arrive at 9 o'clock on beat 3. The acceleration provides the skip note of the swing ride pattern.

Repeat for beats 3 and 4.

If you play all of this in a thumbs-up French position you'll be able to get a nice, broad sweep. The pattern is pretty easy to get in and out of for improvisations. Accenting the & of 1 or 3 can be done with either hand pretty and accenting the & of 2 or 4 is as easy as using a lateral strike with the LH in place of the accelerated sweep. Triplet partials can be had in a few ways.
 
I know that feeling.

I watched one video that suggested we should "imitate the sound, not the movement" when playing brushes. Great advice. I wish I could remember whose video it was.



It sounds like you've found it. Most people start with trad grip, lateral motion, sweep left, tap right... then start modifying and adding techniques. As with everything else, stick to the basics at first.

I'm pretty sure that Ed Soph says that on the EVANS video series the OP mentioned.

I've been experimenting with brushes for a couple of months now, those Ed Soph videos really blew my mind, I've been trying to develop something that sounds like what he's doing, with both hands sharing sweeping and accenting duties. Brushes tend to not be a priority for most drummers and I think that's a shame, they can be such an expressive tool.
 
I've had a hard time finding examples of drummers playing "straight time", the way most Rock and Pop is played, with an 1/8th note ride and a backbeat.

Does anyone have advice about that?
 
I play "Wicked Game" as (mostly) money beat using the brushes as sticks. Is that what you mean?
 
I've had a hard time finding examples of drummers playing "straight time", the way most Rock and Pop is played, with an 1/8th note ride and a backbeat.

Does anyone have advice about that?

Florian Alexandru-Zorn is the current undisputed heavyweight champeen of that stuff.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of recorded examples on big name tunes.
 
I play "Wicked Game" as (mostly) money beat using the brushes as sticks. Is that what you mean?

Actually, no. I was thinking of an 1/8th note ride played on the snare with brushes, similar to the way Jazz guys play a swing ride on the snare. I think it would take an extremely quiet band, or some very careful recording, for brushes on a ride cymbal to maintain any presence.

Florian Alexandru-Zorn is the current undisputed heavyweight champeen of that stuff.

I've watched some Alexandru-Zorn videos, and I can't see that approach working for me, at all. It seems so small and quiet and fussy, I think the whole sound would disappear in the mix as soon as someone else started playing.

Peter Erskine demonstrates a sort of Rhumba pattern that looks good, but that's about the only other thing I've seen for straight 1/8th's with brushes.

I've been working on a sort of Ska beat, playing 1 2 3 4 with quiet outward strokes on the right hand, and the "&"s with accented inward strokes. It's the opposite of what seems most obvious, but it seems to work better than accenting the down beats for most songs, and it allows me to keep the backbeat on the left hand, which is what I'm familiar with.
 
I like traditional grip with one or both hands for brushes. It's the only way to get the angle right(steep), and not hurt my wrist. Using a steep angle with sticks will give you a unique sound too.
 
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