Drum Shields??

It's true, using EQ's to take frequencies out instead of boosting seems to be a lost art these days. Cut the crap and slighlty boost the good and you'll be sounding awesome! Sound walls are really just a massive, inconvenient, inpractical bit of kit designed to compensate for a sound guys incompetence.
There's a reason you don't really see the best players using them.

I can imagine using them live would create quite literally a barrier between you and the band. It would take me out of the moment that's for sure!
 
Musician's play a big part in how things sound as well. I have never really questioned why there was a drum shield in front of me or not. I did finally ask the sound guy what is the deal with the big drum booth/ shield. Here is a link to describe what he told me more or less. http://voices.yahoo.com/do-drum-shields-really-work-462115.html?cat=33
The one thing I don't undertand from an earlier post is how can you play isolated with out an inner ear system. Sounds like a big task. Aside from Church I play in clubs and in other bands. I am just happy to be playing the drums.
 
Last edited:
How the hell did they get the gig if they have no technique or finesse?

It's a little retarded that they can't just play for the situation. If someone asked me to play quieter I'd feel like everyone would get annoyed if I just ignored it.

But, some people are also naturally louder than others. They might have the exact same amount of range as you, it just starts higher up and goes way higher. Everyone is different, we're all different weights and sizes. Not mention stick sizes.

I feel there is a bit of hating going on for loud players as if it's less skilled. I'd rather have both strings to my bow than to just say 'no finesse' or 'hits like a girl'.

Neither is better or worse, harder or easier. Just a tool to be applied to musical situations as necassary.
 
How the hell did they get the gig if they have no technique or finesse?

It's a little retarded that they can't just play for the situation. If someone asked me to play quieter I'd feel like everyone would get annoyed if I just ignored it.

But, some people are also naturally louder than others. They might have the exact same amount of range as you, it just starts higher up and goes way higher. Everyone is different, we're all different weights and sizes. Not mention stick sizes.

I feel there is a bit of hating going on for loud players as if it's less skilled. I'd rather have both strings to my bow than to just say 'no finesse' or 'hits like a girl'.

Neither is better or worse, harder or easier. Just a tool to be applied to musical situations as necassary.

Sorry Chunky, I had to reword my previous post, I was not explaining myself correctly. No hating going on. and totally agree on what you are saying.
 
What really doesn't make sense is the club has a 20k line array PA system which they barely turn on and basically just run vocals through it. I honestly don't want to play this club but it's a battle of the bands competition my band is playing in. When I play other clubs with my system I'm usually told to take it easy on the volume but I never do and luckily I don't hear about it either.
 
Sorry Chunky, I had to reword my previous post, I was not explaining myself correctly. No hating going on. and totally agree on what you are saying.

It's ok mate it's just I'm new here and so far I've read some utter trash about loud playing and it's making me feel like I'm less of a drummer because I can and dod play loud (when it's called for).
Probably me being insecure, I just fekt a negative vibe about the while thing. No-one would dare go up to Peter Erskine and tell him he's less if a player because he can't play loud and he openly admits he can't!

We drummers get a raw deal in the mix mist of the time. Well I'd say up until you're playing at proffesional/semi-pro level it can be like talking another language trying to explain why you need that 'head room'.
That and the fact so many (crap) musicians and sound guys think drummers have no rights and are 'lesser' members.

I'm sitting on the pot having a turd, gritting my teeth just thinking about it! Riles me up! We are not 'lesser' in any way. I'm ranting now so I'll stop. apologies.
 
Again, sorry for my terrible spelling. My fingers are too fat for this phone!
I read that back and I'm not even 100% sure what all of that meant!
 
Hi konaboy,

Yes, I agree. There needs to be some balance between sound quality and the other important aspects of the performance that you brought up (such as connecting with the audience). In the end, the sound is one important issue in a list of important issues. In this case it is wrong for them to sacrifice everything else for the sound. At the end of the day connecting with the people is more important then getting studio recording quality sound but they have been hired only to deal with the sound and that is their area of expertise. Sadly they will not likely consider the totality of the project or the specific intricacies of the type of performance you are doing unless people like you continue to speak up. Just keep speaking up and hopefully you can make them realize that they need to make compromises to preserve the totality of the project. Though it seems that you have spoken up already and they are going ahead with this anyways.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this sound company going to sell all the gear to the committee, set it all up, sound check it once and then leave? (essentially leave it up to volunteers to run it?) If this is the case I really don't know how providing more expensive gear helps if volunteers must run it all (unless they are making it user friendly some how, which is almost impossible with live sound). It seems as though the committee has already purchased a monitoring system that didn't get used much. So this more/new gear approach could be a problem.

In terms of other issues that have been brought up, I have read Konaboys posts and it seems to me that he is aware of controlling his volume levels and playing with dynamics (he was complimented on this by the sound team themselves) so that doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

It seems to me konaboy that you are likely a great player, however you might not always be involved in this project and at some point they might end up with a different drummer who cannot or will not control their volume. Ideally they just wouldn't use a drummer like that, but never the less they may be trying to set up the sound system so that it can handle this worst case scenario. However, this worst case scenario approach seems as though it may be a self fulfilling prophecy. They just might get their worst case scenario if they end up causing you to stop playing in the band, especially if the next player that comes along can't handle the gig.

Anyways, I hope it works out. Whatever happens, once you get on stage just keep playing the music the best you can with all your conviction and let others worry about the rest if you can't control it.
 
So much animosity! Have most of you forgotten that drumming is a team sport? There is no "I" in drumming! Well, there is, but it's right near the end. Pros don't argue about such stuff... they play. They're team players. That's why they're pros.

Does a shield change the way you play? Nope. It allows you to play exactly like you want to play. Sounds like a good alternative to being forced to play quieter or use V-Drums, simply to control the mix.

Shields are clear, so I'm at a loss for where drummer's egos are somehow hurt. They can still be seen!

I've been asked if I'd use shields, because my cymbals leak quite heavily into the vocal mics. My only concern was that they stay clean so they'd look good on stage throughout the tour. Bu they won't change the way I play, and with close-miking, will not audibly change my sound.

I am just happy to be playing the drums.

Congrats... you nailed it!

As long as I get to play, I'm happy. Put a shield in front of me, make me wear a costume, make me sing, it doesn't matter because... I get to play drums!

If I don't do it, someone else will.

Bermuda
 
Bermuda,
that signature... Hahaha! (You're pushing your t-shirt sales, aren't you? ;-)
 
As long as I get to play, I'm happy. Put a shield in front of me, make me wear a costume, make me sing, it doesn't matter because... I get to play drums!

If I don't do it, someone else will.

Bermuda

No one has ever asked to wear a costume while playing drums. :(
 
Drum shields can be your best friend in the right situation. Good music has dynamics, which means some songs can go from nice and soft, to loud and emotional. Especially music you might find at a church gig. In certain rooms (especially churches), you are limited dynamically without a shield. You pretty much are stuck playing anywhere from "really friggin soft" to "sorta medium soft", which doesn't help when you are playing music that is supposed to move people. A drum shield gives the guy at the sound board more control on the volume, and doesn't limit your ability to play as the song requires. Of course, if somebody is going to insist on a drum shield, they will hopefully have the sense to have an in-ear monitoring system.
 
They are completely useless in my opinion.

I wish I could get the folks at my church to realize this but they are convinced it helps reduce stage volume and if thats true maybe we should put little plexiglass barriers in around the monitors and guitar amps too....LOL

my new pet peeve actually - drum shields Aaaarrrrgggh!

yeah some sound guys think drum shields help prevent cymbal bleed in the vocal mic's - bra-ha-ha-ha it's funny...unless you are a drummer and have to sit behind one of those things like we're a caged animal...well that's true but beside the point...

Outlaw drum shields - spread the message - save the plexiglass!
I feel your pain man, but don't worry you won't notice much difference.

Drum shields are really drum cages. The scream, "We are deeply afraid of drummers because they are known to destroy music, so we have to put them in a cage."

Which may often be true.
 
In my opinion, drum shields are about as effective and useful as two soup can's
and a string is for a telephone.

Yeah - "it does something" just like the string telephone, but you don't see
the the sound guy using soup cans and string as a talk back mic.
 
In my opinion, drum shields are about as effective and useful as two soup can's and a string is for a telephone.

I think the sheilds' effectiveness at helping control the mix has been pointed out.

There seems to be an auto-resist mode that a lot of drummers have regarding sound guys. I don't know exactly where that comes from, and I'm sure my guesses will only stir the pot.

Drummers do not know how they sound out front, any more than any other player can know how their instrument affects the mix out front. Unless they physically walk out to the sound board with their instrument on a wireless, so they can hear it. I've never seen or heard of a drummer who can do that. But with an instrument that generates a full frequency range - from sub-kick tones to cymbal harmonics - they tend to complain the most, with no real basis of the FOH issues that may be occurring, such as cymbals bleeing into vocal mics. The person running sound is in a much better position to know what the kit sounds like than the drummer himself. I know that's a discussion that's been made other times, and I don't want to open that specific can of worms here.

But what I'm trying to say is that this resistance to shields would be considered laughable in the real world. You'd be replaced pdq with a team player with less of a selfish, egotistical attitude.

But don't accept shields simply out of fear of losing a gig. Do it because you understand that they won't affect what you do behind the kit. Because you understand that the FOH person knows how your drums affect other players and the mix, and you don't. Do it because some of the top pros in the business do it without squawking (I've never heard a pro complain about shields!)

Or, my favorite reason: because someone else gets to pay for them and keep them clean! :)

BTW, I never did get my shields. If they show up one day, that's fine. If not, that's fine. My gig is playing drums, not making things difficult for the sound guy or the other players.

Bermuda
 
As a sound guy who has run sound for various types of music in many different rooms with many different drummers, here's my take on it:

Drum shields make a drastic improvement in the overall mix, especially in acoustically live rooms such as most church sanctuaries. Any church sanctuary designed and built before approximately 1980 (and many after that) is specifically designed to amplify sound that originates on the platform, and in many cases is designed to add plenty of natural reverb to to the music originating from that platform. Both of these are bad when you start putting drums, amps, and open microphones on that platform.

How are they an improvement? Here are a few reasons:

  1. On-stage performers need less monitor volume in order to hear what they need to hear. If you've ever played an instrument other than kit on stage, you'll learn quickly that the snare drum sets the minimum volume level on stage that others need to meet if they are to hear themselves. The shield does greatly reduce the sound coming from the overall kit.
  2. You cannot EQ the cymbals out of the other mic channels. You can reduce it some, but you lose sibilance and definition in the vocals when you do (and lets face it, the vocals ARE the message.)
  3. The more noise (monitor, amp, etc.) emanating from on stage muddier the mix becomes, and the less likely the congregation is to tolerate it.
  4. As previously mentioned, the shield will allow you to play nearly your full dynamic range. This is a good thing.

The typical praise team lineup contains so many marginal (and less powerful) vocalist that the situation deteriorates quickly (vocalists can't hear each other, vocal mics pick up nothing but drums, etc.) You've got to be willing to work within the parameters necessary to keep peace with everyone in the room with you.

Do insist on full micing and your own monitor mix (in-ears, a wedge, whatever). If the current system is lacking (not enough snake channels, too small mixer, etc.), it's not out of the question to mic the drums up and run them into your own mixer. If you can send them four channels (kick, snare, L&R everything else) then you half way there. If they don't have a monitor mix to send you, then you can get them to send you the house mix and (being very careful not to send it back to them) you can cobble together your own mix and feed ear buds or a powered speaker directly off the mixer.

I'm certain it sucks to play behind one (I haven't been on that side of the plex), but it's better than real alternatives. Don't see this as a personal attack. They seem to be willing to spend money to allow you do to what you do best.
 
As a sound guy who has run sound for various types of music in many different rooms with many different drummers, here's my take on it:

Drum shields make a drastic improvement in the overall mix, especially in acoustically live rooms such as most church sanctuaries. Any church sanctuary designed and built before approximately 1980 (and many after that) is specifically designed to amplify sound that originates on the platform, and in many cases is designed to add plenty of natural reverb to to the music originating from that platform. Both of these are bad when you start putting drums, amps, and open microphones on that platform.

How are they an improvement? Here are a few reasons:

  1. On-stage performers need less monitor volume in order to hear what they need to hear. If you've ever played an instrument other than kit on stage, you'll learn quickly that the snare drum sets the minimum volume level on stage that others need to meet if they are to hear themselves. The shield does greatly reduce the sound coming from the overall kit.
  2. You cannot EQ the cymbals out of the other mic channels. You can reduce it some, but you lose sibilance and definition in the vocals when you do (and lets face it, the vocals ARE the message.)
  3. The more noise (monitor, amp, etc.) emanating from on stage muddier the mix becomes, and the less likely the congregation is to tolerate it.
  4. As previously mentioned, the shield will allow you to play nearly your full dynamic range. This is a good thing.

The typical praise team lineup contains so many marginal (and less powerful) vocalist that the situation deteriorates quickly (vocalists can't hear each other, vocal mics pick up nothing but drums, etc.) You've got to be willing to work within the parameters necessary to keep peace with everyone in the room with you.

Do insist on full micing and your own monitor mix (in-ears, a wedge, whatever). If the current system is lacking (not enough snake channels, too small mixer, etc.), it's not out of the question to mic the drums up and run them into your own mixer. If you can send them four channels (kick, snare, L&R everything else) then you half way there. If they don't have a monitor mix to send you, then you can get them to send you the house mix and (being very careful not to send it back to them) you can cobble together your own mix and feed ear buds or a powered speaker directly off the mixer.

I'm certain it sucks to play behind one (I haven't been on that side of the plex), but it's better than real alternatives. Don't see this as a personal attack. They seem to be willing to spend money to allow you do to what you do best.

Fact, the chapel I played in was EXTREMELY boomy and everyone but me was miked. The drums sounded so much better with the shield.
 
I wouldn't make a big deal about a drum shield - we have one at church
and I play behind it without a fuss.

My opinion after running sound, recording a live performance AND playing drums and playing bass with said object in place is that it doesn't do very much. I certainly wouldn't argue with someone about it or not play a gig because of it - but my evaluation of the object is the same = useless

So...my opinion is based on experience in a number of different settings.

I am around the thing twice a week every week - either playing drums or in the band playing bass - I often help out the sound folks running the board as they are volunteers
and asked for me to help "dial in the sound"

Our kit is mic'd: Kick, Snare and overheads - we put a tiny bit from each mic
in the mains for clarity because once the music gets going the drums get clouded
FOH -

the main purpose for the drum shield in our situation is to reduce the drums volume on stage - not the FOH volume - not for mixing etc...

And still, when the drummer gets loud - I'm sorry but there is no difference
in DB level on stage - we have a DB meter and I would LOVE
to do an experiment with the thing - but what would be the point?

It's really not that big of deal - not big enough to ruffle feathers over.

If it helps people to accept acoustic drums believing they are quieter behind it...COOL!

The fact that I am in the camp that believes it is nothing more than fancy decoration
doesn't mean I'd give sound guys a hard time about it, or waste my time arguing with someone who thinks it reduces stage volume...

Not worth making a big deal out of something that doesn't really do anything...

If the venue has one and believes in it - let it be
If the venue wants to get one - that's where I'll step in and
say "don't waste your money"
 
I think the sheilds' effectiveness at helping control the mix has been pointed out.

There seems to be an auto-resist mode that a lot of drummers have regarding sound guys. I don't know exactly where that comes from, and I'm sure my guesses will only stir the pot.

Drummers do not know how they sound out front, any more than any other player can know how their instrument affects the mix out front. Unless they physically walk out to the sound board with their instrument on a wireless, so they can hear it. I've never seen or heard of a drummer who can do that. But with an instrument that generates a full frequency range - from sub-kick tones to cymbal harmonics - they tend to complain the most, with no real basis of the FOH issues that may be occurring, such as cymbals bleeing into vocal mics. The person running sound is in a much better position to know what the kit sounds like than the drummer himself. I know that's a discussion that's been made other times, and I don't want to open that specific can of worms here.

But what I'm trying to say is that this resistance to shields would be considered laughable in the real world. You'd be replaced pdq with a team player with less of a selfish, egotistical attitude.

But don't accept shields simply out of fear of losing a gig. Do it because you understand that they won't affect what you do behind the kit. Because you understand that the FOH person knows how your drums affect other players and the mix, and you don't. Do it because some of the top pros in the business do it without squawking (I've never heard a pro complain about shields!)


Or, my favorite reason: because someone else gets to pay for them and keep them clean! :)

BTW, I never did get my shields. If they show up one day, that's fine. If not, that's fine. My gig is playing drums, not making things difficult for the sound guy or the other players.

Bermuda

You make a good point actually.
If I was a sound guy I'd hate to have to do sound in a church and I'd use every tool at my disposal to get the right sound out front.

I still haven't heard my kit from my bands perspective! Crazy really 'cos I think I know my sound but, do I?
 
Hi konaboy,

Yes, I agree. There needs to be some balance between sound quality and the other important aspects of the performance that you brought up (such as connecting with the audience). In the end, the sound is one important issue in a list of important issues. In this case it is wrong for them to sacrifice everything else for the sound. At the end of the day connecting with the people is more important then getting studio recording quality sound but they have been hired only to deal with the sound and that is their area of expertise. Sadly they will not likely consider the totality of the project or the specific intricacies of the type of performance you are doing unless people like you continue to speak up. Just keep speaking up and hopefully you can make them realize that they need to make compromises to preserve the totality of the project. Though it seems that you have spoken up already and they are going ahead with this anyways.

Correct me if I'm wrong but is this sound company going to sell all the gear to the committee, set it all up, sound check it once and then leave? (essentially leave it up to volunteers to run it?) If this is the case I really don't know how providing more expensive gear helps if volunteers must run it all (unless they are making it user friendly some how, which is almost impossible with live sound). It seems as though the committee has already purchased a monitoring system that didn't get used much. So this more/new gear approach could be a problem.

In terms of other issues that have been brought up, I have read Konaboys posts and it seems to me that he is aware of controlling his volume levels and playing with dynamics (he was complimented on this by the sound team themselves) so that doesn't seem to be an issue for him.

It seems to me konaboy that you are likely a great player, however you might not always be involved in this project and at some point they might end up with a different drummer who cannot or will not control their volume. Ideally they just wouldn't use a drummer like that, but never the less they may be trying to set up the sound system so that it can handle this worst case scenario. However, this worst case scenario approach seems as though it may be a self fulfilling prophecy. They just might get their worst case scenario if they end up causing you to stop playing in the band, especially if the next player that comes along can't handle the gig.

Anyways, I hope it works out. Whatever happens, once you get on stage just keep playing the music the best you can with all your conviction and let others worry about the rest if you can't control it.


Yes they are selling us the whole thing, new 48 channel digital board, mains, iso boxes for all the guitar cabs (talk about burying the amps off stage somewhere) new mic's and what else I haven't heard. yeah they come in, install everything, supposedly do some training, sit with the sound crew for the first week then let us go for a few weeks then come out like a month or two later to go over questions or issues.

I will say mains are needed as well as moving the board which is planned. Our worship center was built in 1990 and the sound system designed for choirs, the two subs and horn are mounted about 30 ft up even with the balcony. which is where the current board is located. The board is being moved down to floor level where the majority of people sit.

to me as you said there are more issues than putting me behind glass. The tech crew truly understanding and having an ear to mix. That's an art form and you really need someone who knows how to do it.

We do have an Aviom system that was installed by another company and hasn't been used for 5 years and that is planned to be used in this new setup.
 
Back
Top