What does a sub kick do?

What Yamaha originally did with their subkick was mount a speaker cone in a drum shell and reverse wire an XLR cable into it, turning it into a very sensitive auxiliary microphone for a kick drum. They are often used along with a more conventional kick mic, although I've heard some people use them by themselves with good results.

Many, many people have been able to make their own subkicks out of old drumshells, speaker cones, and other parts, and from what I understand, the cost is low.

Check this thread out: http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35920&highlight=subkick
 
Sonorforce3007user said:
Thanks I think it would be easier just to use a good mic
Click to expand...

In essence it is actually that, a very large diaphragm microphone having the ability to capture the very low frequencies of a large area of the bass drum's head. I wouldn't use one as the sole microphone of the bass drum, but it can add extra umph to an anemic sounding bass.

Dennis
 
audiotech said:
In essence it is actually that, a very large diaphragm microphone having the ability to capture the very low frequencies of a large area of the bass drum's head. I wouldn't use one as the sole microphone of the bass drum, but it can add extra umph to an anemic sounding bass.

Dennis
Click to expand...
All true, but having now used one, I'd go a bit further than that. I too was suspicious of the benefits, until I read something regarding live reproduction without EQ that changed my mind enough to get one. In a live setting, if you want a bit more umph, you can simply add a bit of bottom end. If you really want to focus the kick, you can add compression too, but what if you don't want that level of processing on the sound. Offering a large diaphragm facilitates capture of low frequencies that a small diaphragm simply can't respond to. Ok, a studio situation is different, as you can more accurately pick up the drum sound, especially as you can position the mic/mic's such that you allow the total drum sound to resolve (something I really perceive the benefit of). Live, that's not very practical, especially on a smaller stage. Where the Subkick really comes into it's own is reproducing the sweet low end without EQ or other processing. Partnered with a second mic (I use a D112) focussed on the outside of the batter head, the combination of the two allows surprising levels of control, & a refreshingly clean yet very powerful live sound. Both mic's are run flat on the board.

As an example, we played a very small venue last night, & needed to keep the overall band volume low, yet still wanted a full & crisp sound. The Subkick allowed me to deliver clean sub frequencies that the audience could really feel, but without an assault on the ears. In short, I'm sold!
 
keep it simple said:
All true, but having now used one, I'd go a bit further than that. I too was suspicious of the benefits, until I read something regarding live reproduction without EQ that changed my mind enough to get one. In a live setting, if you want a bit more umph, you can simply add a bit of bottom end. If you really want to focus the kick, you can add compression too, but what if you don't want that level of processing on the sound. Offering a large diaphragm facilitates capture of low frequencies that a small diaphragm simply can't respond to. Ok, a studio situation is different, as you can more accurately pick up the drum sound, especially as you can position the mic/mic's such that you allow the total drum sound to resolve (something I really perceive the benefit of). Live, that's not very practical, especially on a smaller stage. Where the Subkick really comes into it's own is reproducing the sweet low end without EQ or other processing. Partnered with a second mic (I use a D112) focussed on the outside of the batter head, the combination of the two allows surprising levels of control, & a refreshingly clean yet very powerful live sound. Both mic's are run flat on the board.

As an example, we played a very small venue last night, & needed to keep the overall band volume low, yet still wanted a full & crisp sound. The Subkick allowed me to deliver clean sub frequencies that the audience could really feel, but without an assault on the ears. In short, I'm sold!
Click to expand...

Not to differ with you too much, but for the same price (or even less) you could get yourself the legendary Electro-Voice RE20 microphone. Incredible for low frequency instruments like low brass, kicks drums, and is the main vocal mic they use on Bonnie Raitt! I use this mic on kicks all the time at Disneyland and usually I have don't have to eq it so much either.

Granted, the subkick looks cool, but it's like hauling around another tom tom, plus a snare stand!
 
keep it simple said:
All true, but having now used one, I'd go a bit further than that. I too was suspicious of the benefits, until I read something regarding live reproduction without EQ that changed my mind enough to get one. In a live setting, if you want a bit more umph, you can simply add a bit of bottom end. If you really want to focus the kick, you can add compression too, but what if you don't want that level of processing on the sound. Offering a large diaphragm facilitates capture of low frequencies that a small diaphragm simply can't respond to. Ok, a studio situation is different, as you can more accurately pick up the drum sound, especially as you can position the mic/mic's such that you allow the total drum sound to resolve (something I really perceive the benefit of). Live, that's not very practical, especially on a smaller stage. Where the Subkick really comes into it's own is reproducing the sweet low end without EQ or other processing. Partnered with a second mic (I use a D112) focussed on the outside of the batter head, the combination of the two allows surprising levels of control, & a refreshingly clean yet very powerful live sound. Both mic's are run flat on the board.

As an example, we played a very small venue last night, & needed to keep the overall band volume low, yet still wanted a full & crisp sound. The Subkick allowed me to deliver clean sub frequencies that the audience could really feel, but without an assault on the ears. In short, I'm sold!
Click to expand...

You know Andy, that is the first time anyone has ever explained the purpose of the subkick that made any sense!

Most explanations are that is helps capture low ends sounds that only a dog/goat/deer-mouse can hear.
 
Bo Eder said:
Not to differ with you too much, but for the same price (or even less) you could get yourself the legendary Electro-Voice RE20 microphone. Incredible for low frequency instruments like low brass, kicks drums, and is the main vocal mic they use on Bonnie Raitt! I use this mic on kicks all the time at Disneyland and usually I have don't have to eq it so much either.

Granted, the subkick looks cool, but it's like hauling around another tom tom, plus a snare stand!
Click to expand...
To some extent, I agree Bo. I happen to have a soft spot for the RE20 and EV mic's in general, but not even the RE20 can capture clean low frequencies as effectively as the Subkick. It's simply a question of diaphragm size. Agreed on the hauling around thing too, in that respect, it's a pain in the neck. Gotta disagree with the looking cool thing though, I happen to think it looks butt ugly. It's like my lovely kick drum has grown a mutated sibling, yuk!

DrumEatDrum said:
You know Andy, that is the first time anyone has ever explained the purpose of the subkick that made any sense!

Most explanations are that is helps capture low ends sounds that only a dog/goat/deer-mouse can hear.
Click to expand...
Haha, great for animal rescue charity gigs! That subsonic ability is a useful tool though, especially in the creation of a big sound feel at low volume. Helps the kick to have a differentiating pulse from the bass guitar too.
 
I think it works sweet as icing on the cake. And true no mic can pick up that low (low you can hear, but mostly feel) as the SK does.

Butt ugly?
yamahasubkick.gif


5047_1194917792704_1221222716_553146_7331_n.jpg


25491_1451840775618_1221222716_1311390_3257335_n.jpg


4549255057_e107083a97_z.jpg


YAMAHA+RECORDING+CUSTOM+LTD+7PCS.jpg


346619944.jpg


(if you really don't like it, mount it inside the kick, like Russ did)
 
MusiQmaN said:
I think it works sweet as icing on the cake. And true no mic can pick up that low (low you can hear, but mostly feel) as the SK does.

Butt ugly?
(if you really don't like it, mount it inside the kick, like Russ did)
Click to expand...
Whoops! I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, no offense meant. I like clean lines as much as possible, & the SK is a touch on the gear overload visually for me. But hey, that's way down the list of important considerations.

As for mounting the SK inside. No way could Ibring myself to do that. I place great importance on the drum sound resolving to form a wholistic sound. Putting the SK inside goes against that principal (I hate close mic's at the best of times, but sometimes, a necessary evil), plus it would use up a lot of the drum volume to the detriment of the acoustic sound IMO.
 
Our regular sound guy has a homemade subkick, and it really does add a lot of low-end oomph to the sound, even on my kick (which is definitely the weakest part of the Sonor Force 3005, IMO).

As for looks, well... I don't think it looks bad (the one we use is just a speakercone, no drumshell or anything) but it does cover up my fronthead a bit:
Eskil_03.jpg
 
Resurrecting an old thread I know, but I’m looking at making a homemade sub kick. And I was just wondering if you guys reckon they work best with a ported or unported reso head?
 
Gents,

I have bad news, or at least interesting news.....

Grab a sub-kick and record it on a BD. Now change the head tension. Now change the bass drum. Now try another bass drum. Now put it in front of a high powered blower fan, now hold it out the window of a moving car.

They all produce roughly the same result.

It's not a microphone. It's a reverberation device that responds to turbulence. The frequency it outputs isn't being picked up from the bass drum, it's created entirely by the sub-kick resonating.

You can get the same (or better) result with a triggered real-time sample, or a tone generator patch linked to a threshold on your board. The sub-kick and the studio trick that inspired it made sense before these things existed. Now it just looks silly.
 
KamaK said:
It's not a microphone. It's a reverberation device that responds to turbulence. The frequency it outputs isn't being picked up from the bass drum, it's created entirely by the sub-kick resonating.

You can get the same (or better) result with a triggered real-time sample, or a tone generator patch linked to a threshold on your board. The sub-kick and the studio trick that inspired it made sense before these things existed. Now it just looks silly.
Click to expand...

Interesting....
 
KamaK said:
It's not a microphone. It's a reverberation device that responds to turbulence. The frequency it outputs isn't being picked up from the bass drum, it's created entirely by the sub-kick resonating.
Click to expand...
Yes but you can talk into it and it will reproduce you talking. Just like you can plug a mic into a headphone jack and get sound out of it. I have recorded audio with headphones numerous times. It isnt great, but it does work.
 
Subwoofer means "Below the bass" in audiophile jargon.

We are talking about very, very low frequencies that are felt more than heard; 18-30hz.

Earthquake bass, subharmonics that require a good amout of amplifier power to reproduce those frequencies.

I chose my sE Electronics V Kick mics because they can capture those very deep frequencies. Subkicks can, too.

Many recording engineers use two mics; one inside for click and punch and one by the front head to round out the very bottom.

There are other good mics out there as well that can capture those frequencies.

These frequencies are exceedingly rare on your home system unless it's augmented by a good powered subwoofer.
 
KamaK said:
It's not a microphone. It's a reverberation device that responds to turbulence.
Click to expand...

No? But you just described a microphone.

A sub kick is essentially a large diaphragm moving coil microphone with a very narrow (low Hz) frequency range.
 
KamaK said:
It's not a microphone. It's a reverberation device that responds to turbulence. The frequency it outputs isn't being picked up from the bass drum, it's created entirely by the sub-kick resonating.

You can get the same (or better) result with a triggered real-time sample, or a tone generator patch linked to a threshold on your board. The sub-kick and the studio trick that inspired it made sense before these things existed. Now it just looks silly.
Click to expand...

Correct. You are mostly just getting the resonance of the big heavy diaphragm (cone), much like blowing across an organ pipe.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top