not liking my Black Panther Birdseye 5.5x14

yammieoaks

Senior Member
I got this maple snare before I knew what I wanted, and it's actually not what I want. I like deeper, drier snares, and have tried different heads but no luck getting this to sound like a 6.5 deep snare.

Any other suggestions? It's been suggested to try different snare wires but would I achieve a deeper sound with them? It seems unlikely.

For deeper snares that are less than $700, any suggestions to start with?
 
IMHO, deeper drums can be cranked right up to more closely resemble a shallower drum, but it doesn't work the same way in reverse.

I don't think wires will necessarily give you a deeper sound per se. More wires usually just means more snare sound, less wires usually means more shell tone.....neither is gonna change the fundamental pitch of the drum.

There are a ton of snares out there under 700 bucks that I'm sure you will love. Wander into a store, grab a stick and start hitting some.....only way you're really gonna know.
 
I would first check your bearing edges on a flat surface.

Do you have the bottom head cranked tight? That is something I found is key in getting a great snare sound.

I doubt wires will do much difference in improving the sound.

As far as heads, normally single ply coated heads work best but if you need something heavier use a coated Emperor of coated G2.

I had a Tama snare once that just sounded horrible. It didn't even feel good to play. It had a loud annoying crack sound that actually hurt to hear. I just got rid of the drum and bought one that sound good.
 
like AJ3000 says, $700 gets you into a lot of top quality snares. As you mentioned, it seems you've tried to dry things out. Perhaps an Evans HD Dry batter? That will dry anything out! Don't know though if it will add body or depth to a 5.5 inch.

If you've exhausted all the options you can add to the drum, or are exhausted yourself - the best way perhaps to get that 6.5" deep sound would be from a.,....well.......6.5 in drum. Check out the new TAMA line of SLP (Sound Lab Production) snares. IMO, Tama has totally engineered a sonic combination of tasty features that really sound amazing. Here is a link to some talk about it here on DW.

http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90952

Here is Tama's product link to the 6.5 Maple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS79q7_21G8

Now here's the best part, with $700, you can get the maple and also the 6" Bubinga which has a deeper, drier sound. This line is amazing in my opinion because of the price and tone. Just my opinion though. Not bad...2 nice quality drums for $700......
 
First, you will n ot get a deep sound for 5.5. You know that now.

Secondly I just bought a Chrome over Brass Gretsch Brooklyn 6.5 x 14 on eBay brand new for 340.00 shipped.

Thirdly, if you know how to tune you don't need to spend 700.00 for a good sounding snare.
 
I agree heads and tuning can improve on where you're at with this drum.

However it's possible that true love won't ever happen for various reasons. In that case, getting a new or new/used drum will probably be an answer.

$700 does give you a lot of choices. I don't think of maple as being particularly dry but again with heads, tuning and the right drum you can make it dry.

I don't know where you live but the best case scenario is starting to play as many 6.5 drums as possible. Depending on how deep you want the sound to go, a 6.5 x 13 might also be a way to go. I have a 6 x 13 Pork Pie (Another brand I'd highly recommend) maple and it can give me a pretty low sound. Just not 'pudding cake' or ELO\Bev Bevan circa '70's low.

If you can't go out and play different snares, start checking videos of online stores on their sites or on YouTube (like Indoor Storm or Memphis Drum Shop). That's an imperfect way to check out snares but better than just blind ordering or off of recommendations.

HTH

Jim
 
Last edited:
6.5's can go higher, but 5.5 can't go lower.
In my part of the world, you can get nearly two good snares for $700.
too many to name but....Pork Pies, Pearl Sensitones, used Ludwig Supras.....
I agree if you have the coin get into a music shop take your time and try them all.
 
Kind of surprised that no one has suggested changing snare wires. You mentioned "drier", so I think brass wires instead of steel might be an option. If you like more snare sound (as opposed to shell tone), then maybe try 30 strand wires.

I recently played on a cover of Bruce Springsteen's Vigilante Man, for a recording project. Used a 5.5 maple snare, tuned medium-low (could have gone lower, too). 20 strand steel wires, coated ambassador, and a bit of gaffe tape. The sound is meant to be fairly old-school rock and roll, with reverb and room sound, so it's not a "modern" production by any stretch.

Snare tone is difficult search, because we rarely hear snare that isn't processed considerably on a recording, and many times we're hearing a blend of the recorded snare and a sample. Can you find recorded examples of snare sounds you like? Maybe we can shed some light on what you're hearing.
 

Attachments

  • Vigilante Man Final Mix.mp3
    5.6 MB · Views: 94
What heads? Sounds like a good use case for an emperor batter.

First, you will n ot get a deep sound for 5.5. You know that now.

Secondly I just bought a Chrome over Brass Gretsch Brooklyn 6.5 x 14 on eBay brand new for 340.00 shipped.

Thirdly, if you know how to tune you don't need to spend 700.00 for a good sounding snare.

Give us the full report, kind sir, I've seen some of those and have been interested as well.
 
brentcn : that was a really good snare sound on your recording.

I don't know what sound yammieoaks is really looking for, but I do remember tuning down a 5.5" snare I had to get a particular sound - it was a Yamaha 8000 (Birch/Mahogany shell), and I used it on a track called "October Skies" for a good local songwriter here. It's track 6 on this media player:

http://soundcloud.com/rich-kenyon/sets/recordings-with-rich-kenyon


Now, it's a VERY different sound to the one on brentcn 's recording, but both may fit the original description.
 
I'd try an Evans HD head, those things are desert dry.

As for other drums that might work in that price range, I'd look at a Ludwig 402. I also have a Classic Maple snare that is 6.5X14 and it is stellar. My favorite snare in that price range is a Craviotto single ply. It has a warm sound, but it is very articulate and adaptable. I would not call it super dry though.
 
I recently switched from an 8" deep snare to a 5.5", and it takes a little time and a little experimentation to find a sound that feels comfortable.

However, there is a certain quality of sound that is unique to specific depths, and it is a little unfair to the drum to expect one thing out of another. I feel like the best snare sound is achieved by trying to maximize a drum's particular sound, not force it into sounding like something else. It may not be the exact sound you're wanting to hear, but at least it should be a good sound.

That said, I think most drums are capable of a wider range of sounds than they're given credit for, so tweaking tuning, heads, and wires is always a great pace to start.

It seems deeper is the main concern, so let's start there. The most obvious thing to try is simply tune the batter head to a lower note. The trick here is to control any higher overtones you're likely to get from the lower tuning. A piece of Moongel might do the trick, or a head with some built-in muffling. I'm using an Aquarian Studio-X batter, and it gives me a great combination of shell tone with slightly-controlled overtones.

I don't like overly thick or dry heads on shallow drums, since all I hear is slap from the batter head and buzz from the snare wires and not enough tone from the shell to fill out the sound. It's what happens in-between the heads that gives you the feeling of depth you're looking for and both the HD Dry and the EC2 kill too much shell tone for my liking.

As for dryer, I'm not sure if we're talking about cutting some high-pitched shell-ringing or if there is too much snare wire sound. If it is snare wires, just get a set of wires with fewer wires or remove some wires from the existing set.

If it is high-pitched overtones I still think tuning and some muffling is your best bet. I like starting with Moongel just because you can totally control how much muffling you get. The trouble I found with thicker and more muffled heads is you can't adjust the level of control at all. The HD Dry especially gives one sound no matter what tuning you're at. For me it killed the drum completely and it sounded very one-dimensional.
 
Back
Top