The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: Big kit or small kit?

Well I like both. I'm going to try like a seven or eight soon to see how I like it. But when I play on larger sets I feel more powerfull. I can't really explain it but it feels good. Not like the ones that take a full sized mobile home to store it in. Though I would be lost but i can adapt quickly. I have a 5 right now.
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

OK so there's no answer beyond personal preference ...

I myself am planning a drumset collection of a number of different types and sizes of kits, small 4 piece kits, giant 11 piece kits, ones for hip hop, a two piece vintage jazz kit hehe, and of course my own concoction symmetrical kit ... plus whatever else anyways

it is an undeniable fact of course, that you cannot get the sound of say a 13" china from a sizzle ride, or even a 18" china for that matter. Even if a person can get a dozen sounds from one cymbal or drum, that only means that they can get two dozen sounds from two cymbals or drums. The fact is that there are alot more sound possibilities with a bigger kit.

on the other side of the coin, it is true that alot of the players with the huge kits don't use each individual piece of it as diversely as for example, peter erskine. But that's their fault. When there are people with huge kits that do have the sublties of an erskine or bruford, then there ya go. It's still the drummer that makes the performance, not the drumset. You all say "I'd rather see a drummer kill on a little four piece than see someone bash around on a double bass seven tom kit with no skill." Well of course you would! But when someone plays the giant kit with some virtuosity, it wont matter the size of the kit.
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

Well, I love my 5-piece so far. Can't go wrong with it. But, I wouldn't mind having an extra tom or two, another snare, so I can have both snare sounds at once, without turning it off all the time. Most of all though..I'd like more cymbals. I only have my ride/crash and hi-hats, which is fine. I'd just like to get some more sounds, although I have found I can get a lot of different sounds with my cymbals. Although, I listen to Alice In Chains so much, and Sean Kinney does a lot of different things with his hi-hats, and makes some real cool patterns, and I think he only has a 5 or 4-piece. I dunno'. Small Kit..with lot's of cymbals for me I guess, if I could have it like that.
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

In one of my bands we play much of improvised, progressive an free-jazzy things. But there I have only a little Jazz kit with single bass, two toms, snare and three cymbals. I could really need more there!

On the other hand in that band where we play jazz standards with a vocalist I have my big kit with four toms, double bass two snares and many cymbals and I don't need that much.

So if a kit size makes sense mainly depends on the musical situation. If the drummer can't play the problem is an other one...
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

Its much more skillful in my opinion to exploit as much as you can as many sounds from limited equipment ie a small kit, rather than a massive kit with lots of different sounds available from lots of different pieces of equipment.

Explore new sounds from the gear you already have rather than buying loads of money on new cymbals and drums...

Oli
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

If I turn up to a gig at which other bands and drummers will be playing, and I see a guy with a huge kit, my immediate reaction is one of relief, being confident that that drummer will probably be a showman with little taste who needs to hide behind a mass of drums to a) fool the audience into thinking he must be good, and b) hide his own insecurities. If I see a drummer with a tiny, crappy, beaten up old kit, then I'll be scared!! There may be no rhyme or reason to it, but I'll assume the drummer with the small kit must be way more confident about what he can pull out of it.

This is not to say big kits don't have their place in the right hands. I saw a Marco Minnemann clinic a while back and I couldn't dream of accusing him of having a big kit to hide his weaknesses, because (obviously) he's got monster chops. He also, at that particular clinic anyway, utilised everything in his set-up for a specific purpose, and created an amazing sonic palette with it.

Womble
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

I like medium sized kits more on the smaller side like i have 12 ,13,14,and 16 inch toms 22 bass and 13inch snare thats all i use for the drums and for cymbals a have 14 inch hi hats 16 inch crash 18 crash 20 inch ride 18 inch china 8 inch splash and a 21 inch ride(it was free) and double bass thats all i use anymore id probly be lost
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

I prefer to own an average size kit at home for my personal use & practice .... I think for now ... my 9pcs kit will do just fine. But for Cymbals ...I'm afraid I might end up having more into my collection ... cause different types of Cymbals are required for playing different kinds of Music...eg. Jazz, Fusion, Rock etc. There is no one universal Cymbal for all types of Music.

Anyway it's so funny ... I have a crazy thought all these while .... That I might buy a Small Traveller Drum Kit (those that can be easily carried around - like the Pearl RhythmTraveller 5pcs Drum Kit but it's make in Taiwan ... very cheap only at S$650.00 app. USD393 only )...It looks so cute, small but not mean't for children .... felt like Basking at Orchard Road in Singapore ...not for $$$$$$ really but just for the fun of it ... .... hehehehe ... but I'm scare, wonder what my friends & subordinate will say behind me when they see me doing that. Well it's feasible !

 
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Re: Big kit or small kit?

Womble - "If I turn up to a gig at which other bands and drummers will be playing, and I see a guy with a huge kit, my immediate reaction is one of relief, being confident that that drummer will probably be a showman with little taste who needs to hide behind a mass of drums to a) fool the audience into thinking he must be good, and b) hide his own insecurities. If I see a drummer with a tiny, crappy, beaten up old kit, then I'll be scared!! There may be no rhyme or reason to it, but I'll assume the drummer with the small kit must be way more confident about what he can pull out of it."

Rudimentaldrummer - " Anyway it's so funny ... I have a crazy thought all these while .... That I might buy a Small Traveller Drum Kit (those that can be easily carried around - like the Pearl RhythmTraveller 5pcs Drum Kit but it's make in Taiwan ... very cheap only at S$650.00 app. USD393 only )...It looks so cute, small but not mean't for children .... felt like Basking at Orchard Road in Singapore ...not for $$$$$$ really but just for the fun of it ... .... hehehehe ... but I'm scare, wonder what my friends & subordinate will say behind me when they see me doing that. Well it's feasible !"



As players we must separate our egos from our playing ability. As people we must separate ourselves from the good opinion of others. If someone plays a four piece like Bonham or a twelve piece like a beginner, it does not change anything about you or your ability.
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

I notice the heavy bias leans on small kits. And there is a lot of anti-big kit rhetoric, and rationalization. (equating larger kits to ego's, penis envy, and so on) What about guys that just like a large kit? They have no specific reason to compensate for anything...they just like lots of drums and cymbals. It's no crime---really! And it obviously intimidates some folks to the point that they try to downplay a big kit's intrinsic or exigent value(s). Some folks act as if big-kit drummers have to justify themselves. They don't.

I go back to square one on this: it's not the kit it's the drummer. And there is NO right or wrong kit.

FWIW: There is no quantification or correlation between kit size and drummer ability at all. Either the drummer is good on what he/she has, or isn't. I have seen plenty of drummers on small, old, beat up kits that did nothing special. Small kits are no more of a qualifier of a great drummer than a large kit.
 
Re: Big kit or small kit?

[QUOTE='67Rogers]

As players we must separate our egos from our playing ability. As people we must separate ourselves from the good opinion of others. If someone plays a four piece like Bonham or a twelve piece like a beginner, it does not change anything about you or your ability.[/QUOTE]

Yes you're right my bro .... it's really not a matter of how big or small the kit is ... if I'm going to do basking for fun sake - my silly idea. It's that "Basking" is still relatively a very new concept here in my country .... many people thinks ... basking is something similar to begging (like beggers) ... hehehe ... so you understand me now? Cheers ! But I really love to do that on one of a Sunday ...it's sharing my passion with the public...and of course assembling & dissembling a smaller kit is much easier for my purpose .... I'm not bias ... As long as it's DRUMS & PERCUSSION INSTRUMENTS, big or small kits - I love them ! If only I had the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ... I will have a grand collection of all the Models & Brands.
 
THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

It's very othen been said that small kits force you to be more creative. As always there are persons that confirm this and persons who deny this but i think this makes sence: Small as well as big kits lead to creativity. If you play a small kit, u need the creativity to avoid repeating the same fill, chop, whatever over and over again. But big kits force you to just as much creativity, only in another way. When you play a big kit u better use all your toms/cymbals else they're just a waste of money. So i guess the trick of big kits is to get all your sounds into your grooves and not just use them for making fills nicer.

Do you think it's true that there has been an misunderstanding or not ?

(PS: don't start the whole discussion about big vs small kits again. Just tell me wheter my statement makes sence or not and do you think there has been an understanding or not ? )

Thanks for your time, all comment are welcome.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

i agree with you. the argument is really invalid because creativity thrives both underconditions of restraint and excess...think of painters. a truly good painter can paint exquisite paintings with only blue whit and black paint but also be just as creative with thousands of colours.

j

ps: i will eventually merge this with the big kits small kits debate but lets see how this baby corners.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

Finally someone solved the puzzle!

now that we all that have arguement cleared up ... good work

and the painting analogy is perfect!
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

I'm not sure the painting analogy entirely addresses it - yes, a master painter can work in both mediums. But for the sake of developing your creativity, surely working with just two colours makes you appreciate the value available in each colour and lets you work on form, concept and control rather than just trying to make use of every colour available?

Once you've developed that control over what you want to create then it doesn't matter how many colours you have in your pallette, but I would suggest that it's still better for development to have constraints before you have excess available to you.

Who's the better songwriter, the guy who has to write a fifteen minute epic using every style and time signature to get his point across, or the guy who can do it with an acoustic guitar, a few simple chords and a voice? I'd argue the latter, not that there's no merit in the former. But in my experience I've seen so many local bands trying to write twenty minute progressive opuses when they actually can't write simple songs well. The result is twenty minute progressive opuses with no conception of taste, shape or musical form. Having good control of the smaller, more constrained form develops better taste and appreciation of what is available when the constraints are removed, IMHO.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

finnhiggins said:
I'm not sure the painting analogy entirely addresses it - yes, a master painter can work in both mediums. But for the sake of developing your creativity, surely working with just two colours makes you appreciate the value available in each colour and lets you work on form, concept and control rather than just trying to make use of every colour available?
There are 3 basic colors - red, blue and yellow + black and white. You can get every other colors from these basic colors.

get the picture?

...5piece drum set... :DD That's probably why they are kinda standart set up ;-)
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

jammaster said:
There are 3 basic colors - red, blue and yellow + black and white. You can get every other colors from these basic colors.

get the picture?

I've got a picture of you, with a point flying past you at great speed :)

The colour issue is a non-issue. My point was that constraints enhance the development of creativity in that they focus control in specific areas. If you have no constraints you have less motivation to gain fine control in any one area.

Constraining yourself to limited numbers of colours removes your attention from having to deal with which particular colour you're using and instead focuses it on form, nuance and articulation.

It's quite a simple principle: You have a finite amount of attention, let's call this a. You have a finite number of things to dedicate that attention to. Let's call that b. Therefore, assuming equal distribution of attention amoung things you work on, the amount of attention paid to each thing is a over b - let's call this c. It obviously doesn't have to be equal, but this is just making a point.

My suggestion is that the more "c" you have - time dedicated to individual things - the more that particular thing will develop. Therefore there are a few ways to improve your control in each field.

1) Increase a, your finite amount of attention you dedicate to the whole.
2) Decrease b, your finite number of things that draw on your attention.

This all seems extremely obvious. If you dedicate time to something you get better at it. Limiting your range of colours will give you a better understanding of all the aspects of your art which don't rely on large numbers of colours - like form, control, nuance and so forth. Once you understand these things better you can introduce a wider range of colours and work on your control and nuance of those colours.

But without the foundation it's arguable that you will develop at a slower rate as an expressive artist, because expression exists independent of your colour palette. If you're a good expressive artist then more colours are just that - more colours. If you're not a good expressive artist then more colours are just a distraction from the things that actually matter.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

finnhiggins said:
I'm not sure the painting analogy entirely addresses it - yes, a master painter can work in both mediums. But for the sake of developing your creativity, surely working with just two colours makes you appreciate the value available in each colour and lets you work on form, concept and control rather than just trying to make use of every colour available?

...Having good control of the smaller, more constrained form develops better taste and appreciation of what is available when the constraints are removed, IMHO.

yes - this is the fundamental purpose of limiting yourself. a true artists understands and appreciates every aspect of his craft. for us, that means understanding the potential of every instrument we use, and mastering the techniques needed to draw out that potential.

there is a reason that we study snare drum alone. i would recommend not just playing on a smaller kit, but taking each different fundamental piece of the drum set (snare, bass, ride, hi hat) and seperating it from your kit. go in a corner and just practice ride patterns, or hi hat technique with the foot and hands. learn to draw all the different sounds out of every drum and cymbal you own.

then, once you've learned how to be artistic on a small scale, you can translate that onto a larger scale.

it's the same reason we have to practice technical exercises slowly - to make sure that every part is right.
 
Re: A misunderstanding, or just me ?

I know that going from a six-piece with about 10 cymbals, to a four-piece with 4 cymbals, my playing has definitely improved. And so has my creativity. I now pay more attention to the multiple sounds that can come from one cymbal or drum. But this is just a temporary setup, I plan on adding pieces back, one at a time. I miss the additional ways to express myself, but I recognized my tendency to overplay, so this is a corrective measure.

The problem is that I started out with too many drums.
 
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