Stick Twirling

C

Concrete Pete

Senior Member
Hey Crew,

OK, this is probably the stupidest question I've yet posted here.

I auditioned for a Classic Rock band tonight that has bookoo great-paying casino gigs. (More than my current, best classic rock band)
Pretty much 90% of the songs they do are right down my alley, but the lead vocalist/lead guitar player said "can you spin the sticks"? I said NO, never tried, and it seems kinda "show-offy" to me. He said I qualified pretty good time and chops wise, but I need to learn how to twirl sticks to complete the "showmanship" that the band prides themselves on.

HUH?

Maybe I'm in the stone age here, but I consider myself to have a good-to-better-than-average stage presence, do (small) showmanship duties, but C'MON-- stick twirling?

Am I some kinda idiot not wanting (or knowing how to) twirl sticks?

All feedback welcome, and maybe this old dog learned some new tricks, but it's against my better judgement.

Gimme both barrels,
C. P.

(ps) This is kinda funny especially after reading another post recently here about stick twirling--- is this a new fad, or what?
 
I have a few points to make here.

1. Learning stick tricks was a really good thing for me. It made me a better player. When you really learn how to move a stick around in some neat ways, you learn a lot about what you really need to do to hold the stick loosely, how to handle almost dropped sticks, and all the fine muscle stuff that takes years and years of playing to develop. I understand sticks so well from learning all of that. Also, you can practice it at times when you are away from your drums, so it doesn't have to cut into your actual practice time.

2. The band is not asking you to sacrifice anything...they aren't saying, "play poorly" or "learn a different drumming style" that you disagree with. They are talking about adding a different kind of showmanship than you currently use...but one that is common amongst the top cover bands, and one that will help take your visual show to the next level.

3. I am all about sticking to my principles when it comes to drumming...but this isn't a principle thing. It's not like they are trying to change what kind of drummer you are, they are just asking you to add another element. If you don't use a china, but the bandleader asked you to add one, you probably wouldn't think twice about it. Or if he said, "bring your congas for some acoustic songs," again, you probably wouldn't be upset. This is no different than that.

In the end, it sounds like a great band that would work well for you, and that would bring in a good bit of cash, and have you playing casino gigs, which are some of the cushiest gigs out there...are you really going to sacrifice all that just because you don't want to twirl a stick? Really? If so, where are you located, and can I have their number?
 
Concrete Pete said:
Am I some kinda idiot not wanting (or knowing how to) twirl sticks?
Click to expand...


Nope, can't do it well either and never bothered spending any time trying to master it. To be honest there's FAR too many other things I'd like to get sorted before I start contemplating stick tricks.

It's a hard one, 'cos it sounds like you'd quite like the gig. But if an emphasis is placed on your tricks over your playing, does that then mean the music takes a back seat to 'showmanship' (read gimmicks) with these guys?
I'm not saying showmanship is not important, or should be dismissed, far, far from it. But give me a 'player' over a 'twirler' any day.

Best of luck with your decision.
 
mrchattr said:
I have a few points to make here.

1. Learning stick tricks was a really good thing for me. It made me a better player. When you really learn how to move a stick around in some neat ways, you learn a lot about what you really need to do to hold the stick loosely, how to handle almost dropped sticks, and all the fine muscle stuff that takes years and years of playing to develop. I understand sticks so well from learning all of that. Also, you can practice it at times when you are away from your drums, so it doesn't have to cut into your actual practice time.

2. The band is not asking you to sacrifice anything...they aren't saying, "play poorly" or "learn a different drumming style" that you disagree with. They are talking about adding a different kind of showmanship than you currently use...but one that is common amongst the top cover bands, and one that will help take your visual show to the next level.

3. I am all about sticking to my principles when it comes to drumming...but this isn't a principle thing. It's not like they are trying to change what kind of drummer you are, they are just asking you to add another element. If you don't use a china, but the bandleader asked you to add one, you probably wouldn't think twice about it. Or if he said, "bring your congas for some acoustic songs," again, you probably wouldn't be upset. This is no different than that.

In the end, it sounds like a great band that would work well for you, and that would bring in a good bit of cash, and have you playing casino gigs, which are some of the cushiest gigs out there...are you really going to sacrifice all that just because you don't want to twirl a stick? Really? If so, where are you located, and can I have their number?
Click to expand...

I was going to post something, but I realised this post summed up my views in a more coherent and well-written way than any post of mine ever could.
 
First let me say this, I am NOT telling you to do what this guy in the band asked, nor am I giving advice on the matter in any way. I am just going to make a point.

Anything that can add to the visual aspect of the show is a plus.
Nothing bothers me more than going out to see a band and one (or more) of the musicians on stage are not into what they are doing.

Music is a form of entertainment, therefore, as a musician you are an entertainer. Right?
The general public does NOT go out to a live music venue to listen to a show. If they want to listen they stay home with their ipod or cds. People go out to watch a performance.
If you fail to entertain, then you fail as a musician.

The level of showmanship should be based on the music you play.
Over-the-top rock'n out is not always appropriate at a jazz gig. But it should be expected at a rock show.
 
I think stick twirling is a little on the showy flashy side, but im glad i learned some simple tricks. Outside of the showy part, its actual not a bad finger stretch to spin your stick around, and its a nice stress reliever when people tell you to "stop your goddam tapping on everything!"
If i were you, i wouldn't let what sounds like an awesome gig pass you by because you disagree with there ideas on showmanship.
 
I do it and people do enjoy it. It adds a bit of a visual for the listener which is not a bad thing. My main twirl is the fake twirl, easy to learn. Check out YouTube, look up Chip Ritter and you will see demonstrations. The stick just sits between your middle and index finger. Wiggle your fingers back and forth and with practice it will start to twirl. I do it so the motion is going clockwise (backwards) most people have it going counter clockwise. Just came easier to me that way and who really cares as long as it looks good! I also will throw the stick in the air and catch it when the drum part has a measure off or a quarter note pulse with the bass drum. You can also flip it behind your back and catch it (this one took me a while to get down and every now and then one gets away) If it does I just laugh it off, you can see the people enjoy that just as much.

We are entertainers, as long as your timing and playing don't suffer from doing tricks why not. If gives you another little thing to add to your drumming. I say give it a shot.
 
jer said:
I don't think you are an idiot for not wanting to twirl your sticks, but I might think so if you turned down a gig just because of that.

:)
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I agree with that. The band has made it known with you that they pride themselves in showmanship. If i were you, i would be shedding some stick twirling.
 
(ps) This is kinda funny especially after reading another post recently here about stick twirling--- is this a new fad, or what?
Click to expand...

New? not so much - I mean jazz and corps have their flourishes
and let's not forget the 80s -- man, I can recall guys twirling between every backbeat for portions of tunes

I think it might be one of those things that ebbs and flows


s for what I think about it in this context -- I'm of a similar mindset as some of the other guys

If you want the cush and the scratch and they have an act that works in your market...

I think about it as a matter of context

it's a showband, not a concert band - that's the job
 
You say classic rock band.

If the band plays a lot of 80's material, then stick twirling would be fitting, as it seems every drummer was twirling sticks in the 80s.

When I was a teenager in the 80s, and it was too late at night to practice in my bed room (or had otherwise been told to knock it off) I'd often resort to stick twirling just to keep doing something drum related without noise. And as every band on MTV was twirling, it seemed the thing to do.

Enter the 90s, it became passe, so I never twirled in a band, but I could pull it out if I needed to.

Anyhow, I don't see the band leader's request to be much different than "we all wear black outfits as our stage clothes" or "wear a tux to a wedding gig" or "dress like the 70's for our Led Zeppelin tribute night gig"

I'm sure you can find some "how-to's" on youtube.
 
i learned to twirl because i wasn't always allowed to practice on a kit or couldn't practice anymore because i was worn out so i would watch tv with my sticks in my hands.

my 2 pennys:

- no one should be ashamed of knowing how to twirl - twirl away and have fun.

- if a gig requires something of you - anything - and you want that gig then you should do anything for the gig. if you were going to join a KISS tribute act, would you feel the make-up too showy? no.

j
 
Hey Crew,

Great feedback! (as always)

I was accepted into the band ("Loose Change" yeah, not a great name, but what the heck) as of this morning, and then told the band leader that I've never been into, nor do I plan to start stick twirling, and if that boots me from the band, so be it.

He was a little put-offish, (not too badly) and said I should consider maybe contributing more to the band than percussion. (here's where it gets really good!)

I informed him that any ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Tom Petty, Clapton, (etc) lead vocals are right down my alley, and that I do pretty good on backup vox, too (without any major harmonizing) and that I also play a real serious harmonica (my best instrument by far) and can do leads on it--just lemme know what key.

Heck, MAYBE I'll check out stick twirling, but who knows?

Funny part is that Chuck's wife (band leader) emailed me tonight with a bunch of J. Geils songs and stuff that requires harp, and very nicely asked me to do some harp work tomorrow night at rehearsal. (OK, but wo's gonna play drums?)

We'll see where this goes, I guess. We have a gig on Oct. 2nd at a prominent Chico bar, so the pressure is on, and it looks like it'll be a real adventure!

Cheers,
C. P.
 
Concrete Pete said:
Hey Crew,

Great feedback! (as always)

I was accepted into the band ("Loose Change" yeah, not a great name, but what the heck) as of this morning, and then told the band leader that I've never been into, nor do I plan to start stick twirling, and if that boots me from the band, so be it.

He was a little put-offish, (not too badly) and said I should consider maybe contributing more to the band than percussion. (here's where it gets really good!)

I informed him that any ZZ Top, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Tom Petty, Clapton, (etc) lead vocals are right down my alley, and that I do pretty good on backup vox, too (without any major harmonizing) and that I also play a real serious harmonica (my best instrument by far) and can do leads on it--just lemme know what key.

Heck, MAYBE I'll check out stick twirling, but who knows?

Funny part is that Chuck's wife (band leader) emailed me tonight with a bunch of J. Geils songs and stuff that requires harp, and very nicely asked me to do some harp work tomorrow night at rehearsal. (OK, but wo's gonna play drums?)

We'll see where this goes, I guess. We have a gig on Oct. 2nd at a prominent Chico bar, so the pressure is on, and it looks like it'll be a real adventure!

Cheers,
C. P.
Click to expand...

I play harmonica, sing, and drum all at the same time. Use a harmonica neck holder, or, if you had a really intense lead, and it's a simple song, just keep a back beat going on the snare with one hand and keep your feet going while playing harp with the other. I do it all the time.
 
Trust me, if you stick twirl even if you suck people won't care. They'll come up to you and say "great job" just because you caught their attention.

It makes you seem like your having fun, and it's not an eyesore like boring drummer is.
Especially for me, my guitarists have 0 stage presence and I make up for it. They just stand there, while I stand up & play, throw sticks, twirl, light my sticks on fire (NOT a good idea), and a load of other things.
 
It is a sad state that we are in when stick twirling is the benchmark of a drummer!
 
bobdadruma said:
It is a sad state that we are in when stick twirling is the benchmark of a drummer!
Click to expand...

Well, it's just like anything else, isn't it? For example, I'm not a sports fan, and I know very little about sports, so when I watch a football/soccer match, I will naturally notice the guy who scores a goal, or who does some visually impressive dribble move. I will never notice the guys who make that possible, by tackling opponents, delivering good passes, being in the right place at the right time, etc . In addition, I definitely don't notice the work the coach has put into the formations of the team, and the detailed planning that has been done, I just notice whether or not they score and/or win the match.

Most people don't know anything about drumming. If you can put on a good show, be visually noticeable (whether that means twirling sticks, bobbing your head or running around the stage with your hair on fire) and keep the groove nailed down, people will say you're a great drummer. And you are! Polyrhythms, complex licks, rudiments... It's all completely useless and is by no means an indication on whether or not a drummer's any good at all. It's all about how you put it into use in the context of the music. In addition to that, when you play live, you're there to put on a show. That usually means that the crowd expects more than a few guys standing straight up and down on stage, not moving or looking like they're having fun at all. A live performance is about entertaining the crowd, in every way.

So yes, stick twirling might very well one of the benchmarks of a good drummer, and rightly so. It all depends on the audience member's knowledge and understanding of drumming, and in the end (unless you're an extremely specific and rare type of player, like Terry Bozzio), you should strive to play for and entertain the non-drummers, not the drummers.
 
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