Negative Progress / Quitting

I'm not so sure about this.

philrudd: You mentioned that you are not sure about my comment; when I said I think his degraded playing is not normal.

You might be correct. But I keyed in on this statement he made: "My playing has become terribly sloppy, uncoordinated and out-of-time even compared to how it was at the beginning of this year. Songs I used to play well are now virtually impossible."

Sounds kind of serious to me.

.
 
Is there anyone else around you can play with? I could easily see myself getting into exactly the same rut as you if I were just going it alone with drumming. I would almost feel like what's the point if it won't be serving some music at some point. Playing with others will likely give you a sense of purpose to keep moving forward.

The other thing you might consider is if you play any other instruments, start your own home recording project. I've been reduced to once-a-week band practices so playing guitar and bass at home, writing and recording my own stuff, has been where most of my musical itch-scratching has been taking place. Bonus that the new guys I've been playing with like what I write so I feel more like a contributor than just as a drummer.

Do you play any other instruments? Maybe time to think about that - it could be just the shot in the arm you need to expand your horizons while providing a right-now use for your drumming. We always talk about serving the artist and the song with our drumming, so why not be all the above?
 
MikeM;1278506 Do you play any other instruments? Maybe time to think about that - it could be just the shot in the arm you need to expand your horizons while providing a right-now use for your drumming. We always talk about serving the artist and the song with our drumming said:
I've always had a bare-minimum grasp of piano, and in the last year or so picked up the ukulele. I love it. Playing another instrument definitely helps you get a handle on your main instrument. Highly recommended!
 
I like Bill Ray's advice, play in the sandbox lol.

Bo brings up a great point too. Why quit when you can take a break? Drums are good practice for real life. Drums are like a marriage. You have to learn how to get through the not so good times. Only drums are way easier, they don't set your chest hair on fire lol.
 
Thanks everybody!

I'm going to try what a few people have suggested and take a break. As of late, it's been a meaningless treadmill of masturbatory noise-making that I would engage in seemingly out of some bizarre obligation to use the equipment that I w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ spent so much money on. So I'm packing up the kit, moving it to the attic and I'm not getting it back for a month. I'll see how I'm feeling about it all then.

A teacher would probably be a good idea too.
 
Thanks everybody!

I'm going to try what a few people have suggested and take a break. As of late, it's been a meaningless treadmill of masturbatory noise-making that I would engage in seemingly out of some bizarre obligation to use the equipment that I w̶a̶s̶t̶e̶d̶ spent so much money on. So I'm packing up the kit, moving it to the attic and I'm not getting it back for a month. I'll see how I'm feeling about it all then.

A teacher would probably be a good idea too.

You can't just leave it where it's at and should you feel the urge, just go play it? If you have the room, I'd leave it set up, but put myself under no pressure at all to play it. Stewart Copeland said after his days in the Police, his drumset was the thing in his studio that he walked by on his way to his Fairlight. I say leave it up and relax.
 
Books are boring, I get that. I've been playing for ages and it's only now I'm getting into reading because I've already got my fingers in the other pies. Books are actually great, that's where you can get routines from, just start from page 1 and go a little further each day, pretty soon you won't even need to look at the book and you'll see your playing change in weird ways.

Do you enjoy just tinkering without any music going? Would you like playing to a click track? I like these things, and that's how I know I'm supposed to play drums. I have had a bit too much lately but I enjoy watching & listening to great drummers, they inspire me, I steal ideas and I try to be like them. Everyone is saying 'do this, do that' when you should probably do a bit of everything. Playing to music, playing to drum less music, playing with people (look for a jam night and have a go), pad/technique stuff, click, open solo's.. Watching/listening to others etc etc etc

Larry kinda said it - you might be getting in your own way. You used to do things without much thought but now you're trying to do them consciously and you're making mistakes because x. Everyone goes through that at some point. I remember learning double kick and sometimes not being able to do the basics.

It seems like these types of threads have everyone ranting and raving, add this to the pile - good luck!
 
I'm "getting worse" too, have been for a while, yet strangely, I'm playing what I can play better. My gig performances continue to improve. I'm not stretching myself technically, & that allows me to work more on my interpretation & dynamic skills (still much to do there). Of course, this is all down to playing out & performing. I hardly ever "practice". I know I should, but I almost never have the time. We all "practice" & succeed in different ways.

Take a break, find some gigging/jamming opportunities, & keep your playing simple. Enjoy what you can do, don't struggle with what you can't do (consistently). Back off the expectation gas pedal a bit, & the improvement will happen organically alongside your enjoyment of playing.
 
philrudd: You mentioned that you are not sure about my comment; when I said I think his degraded playing is not normal.

You might be correct. But I keyed in on this statement he made: "My playing has become terribly sloppy, uncoordinated and out-of-time even compared to how it was at the beginning of this year. Songs I used to play well are now virtually impossible."

Sounds kind of serious to me.

.

Yeah, you could be right. I guess I was unsure of how objective the statement was: is the OP actually getting sloppy and uncoordinated, or does he just perceive himself to be getting sloppy and uncoordinated?

I'm thinking the latter usually applies in this sort of situation, but if it's the former, you're right - it could be something beyond the regular psychological stumbling blocks we all come across occasionally. And a trip to the doctor would at least rule out one possibility and free him up to tackle the real problem.
 
You can't just leave it where it's at and should you feel the urge, just go play it? If you have the room, I'd leave it set up, but put myself under no pressure at all to play it. Stewart Copeland said after his days in the Police, his drumset was the thing in his studio that he walked by on his way to his Fairlight. I say leave it up and relax.

Nah, I've tried that before. It only lasts a few hours before I start up again. I view this as kind of a "trial run" for quitting. I'm seeing what it feels like to remove them from my life completely for while.
 
Yeah, you could be right. I guess I was unsure of how objective the statement was: is the OP actually getting sloppy and uncoordinated, or does he just perceive himself to be getting sloppy and uncoordinated?

Well, I've always been sloppy and uncoordinated, but I feel that it's somehow getting worse. If it is or not is kind of hard to tell, because I have no old recordings of me playing along to music that I can use as a baseline so I can determine.

But, I've never actually been any good at drumming either so it would end up just being degrees of badness anyhow.
 
Philippe (? sorry, bad memory :), I agree with a lot of advice given here about:

1. Taking a break to freshen up
2. Finding someone to jam with / find a band etc.

It seems to me that, like me, you are a kinaesthetic learner. If I don't do something directly for myself I don't learn. Exercises don't engage me. Nor lessons or books. The only time theory has engaged me was to solve a particular musical problem that bugged me.

If you don't aim to be a pro the focus has to be on enjoyment or it's just silly. That means finding the joy of playing even if you commit the seemingly "cardinal sin" of sloppiness.

There has long been a trend towards greater perfection with the evolution of technique and the standards set by machines. Yet perfection - in music and every other area of life - brings no happiness. More usually, perfectionism is a destructive force that sucks the joy out of everything it touches. Sound familiar?

Think of it this way. A lot of the "perfect" music I have heard lacks sincere expression - akin to a politician flawlessly reciting meaningless platitudes. Most of us would much rather hear a sincere layperson give real insights punctuated with stumbles, stutters, ums, ers and "unprofessional" pauses.

I have much more fun with old music (or retro new music) - music that says it's okay for tempos to shift around, that it's okay to focus on expression, feel, sound and imagination at the expense of accuracy - though I say this with a big proviso ... as long as everyone in the band does it together as a team to help the song tell its story.

Moonie. Mitch. John Densmore. All have been lambasted by some people for "sloppiness" - even Bonzo - but their performances are loved my many for their passion and integration with the band and the music.

So, from a non pro standpoint, just get with a bunch of people you like as human beings and try your best to make them sound good. If you do that you will most likely rediscover your joy of drumming.

That's my cent.
 
I actually don't really believe in getting worse. Couldn't it be that either your musical taste
and maturity, or your ears made step forward? So instead of playing worse, you'd be
hearing and understanding your own playing better more accurately, and in the end more
realistically. That's my guess.

Or: You don't yet "have" all the abilities for sure, maybe you haven't really mastered some
of it, and so sometimes it's happening, and some days it's not. As Zoro says - many people
give up at a point not realizing just how close to success they were. If drumming is your
passion, don't quit :)! Maybe take a break, some days, a week or two - sometimes this
does wonders!

Exactly. Good post, Matthias.

Beyond the possibility of medical conditions, I'm going to ask the OP the same question as Phil Rudd: how do you KNOW you're getting worse? Do you record yourself? What evidence do you have? Of course, it is possible that you're deteriorating because you aren't playing new and challenging things. You're playing the same songs over and over which means you aren't challenging your brain and body to get better. I've seen lots of players - including myself - deteriorate when they get stuck into a repetitive gig for too long. The lack of new challenges leads to stasis or you start to accept mistakes and cut corners and eventually your playing doesn't go anywhere or even gets worse.

But, are you really getting worse? We can convince ourselves of all manner of things. I'm no stranger to a negative internal (and sometimes external) monologue. You know, that voice that tells you you suck, that you'll never amount to anything, that you just sh*t all over the stage during that last performance, etc. The thing is, a lot of that isn't objective information. It's just noise in your head. Somehow, despite that nasty voice, I've managed a fairly good career as a player and teacher. So something must be going right. I've asked around; believe me, you aren't the only one who thinks they suck. :)

As Matthias alluded to, sometimes we can also convince ourselves that we're really, really good. That we're nailing something that we're really not. A lot of younger drummers go through this in my experience. They have a sense that it's all going swimmingly because they don't yet hear the subtle (and not so subtle) problems in their own playing. So perhaps this feeling that songs you used to play fluidly are now impossible is actually your ears and discernment outpacing your technical abilities. Perhaps you're finally hearing the errors that were there all along and that haven't been corrected because you don't have a serious practice routine. Also, while recording can provide some objective feedback, this is one of the primary roles of a teacher: to help a student learn to hear and diagnose the problems in their own playing. External correction leads to self-correction.

Also, what are your goals? It's difficult to ascertain if we're really getting better or worse unless we have a definite aim. I think you may have named your biggest problem. And it's not just a technical one, but an emotional one: by not having clear goals or practice structure, you've robbed yourself of the magnificent feeling that comes when you surpass a personal benchmark. If you set small, purposeful goals you can come out of the practice room every time with a feeling of accomplishment. Don't cheat yourself of that. It's really important. In my life, that feeling of depression and being stuck comes up when I don't have a clear set of goals I'm working toward and a way of measuring progress. Imagine a weightlifter who went to the gym and just lifted random stuff without ever keeping track of how much they lifted or how many times they lifted it. How would they ever get anywhere? But, the weightlifter who goes in to the gym with a clear outline of what they're trying to achieve that day (and what they've achieved previously) can walk out knowing that they did just a little more today than last week. They can walk out knowing they're stronger than they were before. I'm sorry to say that your methods are setting you up for feelings of failure because they don't provide for a feeling of accomplishment. Don't be the author of your own demise!

You say yourself "I know it's not the best way to practice". If you know that, then why are you surprised and depressed when you aren't getting the results you want? Repeating errors hundreds or thousands of times can definitely make you worse. But you're already half way to solving your problem because you know what to work on from identifying what isn't right in your playing: e.g. coordination, etc. Put some solid programmed work in on that and if you don't make progress, then you might have a problem. Don't give up before you've tried the patently obvious.

I only play a doctor on TV, but I suspect this isn't medical but you coming to grips with the difficulty of the task of becoming a good drummer or, in fact, good at anything. But, don't try to do that all at once. Bite off some small chunks and chew them for a bit. Start with what you know you're weak at. Be clear about what you're trying to achieve and track your progress as objectively as you can. The negative voices in your head don't have to be in charge. You have a choice to make. Have courage and face your demons down or let them run the show. What do you want? Who do you want to be?
 
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I actually don't really believe in getting worse. Couldn't it be that either your musical taste
and maturity, or your ears made step forward? So instead of playing worse, you'd be
hearing and understanding your own playing better more accurately, and in the end more
realistically. That's my guess.

Or: You don't yet "have" all the abilities for sure, maybe you haven't really mastered some
of it, and so sometimes it's happening, and some days it's not. As Zoro says - many people
give up at a point not realizing just how close to success they were. If drumming is your
passion, don't quit :)! Maybe take a break, some days, a week or two - sometimes this
does wonders!


This.


Over the decades I have seen many fall away. Generally the reason was the same. The player had found some excuse not to practise properly. Ignore basics, mistake fun for actual work, and then later complain and and give up.

As if their poor attitude was ever going to produce positive results. Of course they were going to fail. And we see them come and go every day. Whether or not the OP continues is meaningless. Another will take up drums and buy equipment in his place...

I tell all my students that it takes work. But also that what they achieve is a choice. How good one wants to be is how good they can be. And mistakes and trials and failure are par for the course. One must be prepared to make mistakes. And understand that only through mistakes does progress take place.

I am not a drumming ambulance driver. Nor is anyone here. We all care that drumming may cause personal pain. But I think we also know that drums do not do that. That drums are passive things that must be struck in order to speak.

I think, OP, you probably need to ask yourself what it is you want. Be comfortable with that and simply play.

It is up to you. Unless of course there is an illness involved. In that case see a doctor.
 
DSCRAPRE...in you original post you said that playing is enraging....

It is totally possible to feel the opposite of this, like right away. It's your choice.

There's so many things I can't do, but to get enraged over them...that could be the very worst place to play from.

You are taking a break, but IMO, the first thing that needs work, and it's not too hard, is your whole mental approach. You're too hard on yourself. 5 years is not a long time playing drums.

Lighten up. Use the drums for fun. Right now you are using them as a way to get aggravated. Playing and infuriating yourself is 100 times worse than not playing at all.

Adjust your mental approach. The one you're using now is about as detrimental as it gets.
 
I have to agree with Larry there. It's one thing to play the drums with some anger and conviction such as that, in a deliberate way - but it's another to mentally approach drums with the outlook that you are getting worse and generally unhappiness, and play angrily.

I was reading a thread several months ago about taking time off from drumming and became curious, so I took a break for one full week back in May. It was the first time in ten years I hadn't picked up sticks every day for at least a half hour. Overall, definitely a breathe of fresh air and I maybe even improved a bit. My worry is always falling behind and not improving, so that week off was reassuring.
 
You need an attitude adjustment - plain and simple.

And since that's the case, take a break. Get away from your drums for a while. What's it going to hurt, huh?

Just like personal relationships, you know you like (and/or love) the other person, but sometimes it's nice to just get away from them.

Take a break and focus on something else.

Everybody needs to once in a while.
 
I never quit... however, I went on a long sabbatical as I like to say. It had the exact opposite affect on me - I am excited about drumming again. I was a little disappointed in myself at first because the chops weren't there like they used to be. However, after my first "get into the true groove" session with myself... I realized something: I've matured... my sound has matured. My brain actually missed playing and I was capable of things that I didn't know I was. After one good session... I knew I hadn't lost it.

I don't play out. I don't play in a group. I play for me, plain and simple. This is the first time in my drumming career that it has been this way.

Here's my advice: Find YOURSELF in your drumming. Who cares about the song? I've never practiced with a song in my life. Play what you feel... put it into beats.
 
Well, I've always been sloppy and uncoordinated, but I feel that it's somehow getting worse. If it is or not is kind of hard to tell, because I have no old recordings of me playing along to music that I can use as a baseline so I can determine.

But, I've never actually been any good at drumming either so it would end up just being degrees of badness anyhow.

Oh, MAN! You just need to get your confidence up.

And I've BEEN THERE! I've thought about quitting more than once. There were a few times when I was absolutely certain that throwing away the whole kit was the best solution to my problems.

But I didn't. And I'm betting you won't either. In some weird way, in the not-too-distant future, you're going to reflect on this moment and realize it was a pivotal point in your growth as a drummer.
 
Philippe (? sorry, bad memory :), I agree with a lot of advice given here about:

1. Taking a break to freshen up
2. Finding someone to jam with / find a band etc.

It seems to me that, like me, you are a kinaesthetic learner. If I don't do something directly for myself I don't learn. Exercises don't engage me. Nor lessons or books. The only time theory has engaged me was to solve a particular musical problem that bugged me.

If you don't aim to be a pro the focus has to be on enjoyment or it's just silly. That means finding the joy of playing even if you commit the seemingly "cardinal sin" of sloppiness.

There has long been a trend towards greater perfection with the evolution of technique and the standards set by machines. Yet perfection - in music and every other area of life - brings no happiness. More usually, perfectionism is a destructive force that sucks the joy out of everything it touches. Sound familiar?

Think of it this way. A lot of the "perfect" music I have heard lacks sincere expression - akin to a politician flawlessly reciting meaningless platitudes. Most of us would much rather hear a sincere layperson give real insights punctuated with stumbles, stutters, ums, ers and "unprofessional" pauses.

I have much more fun with old music (or retro new music) - music that says it's okay for tempos to shift around, that it's okay to focus on expression, feel, sound and imagination at the expense of accuracy - though I say this with a big proviso ... as long as everyone in the band does it together as a team to help the song tell its story.

Moonie. Mitch. John Densmore. All have been lambasted by some people for "sloppiness" - even Bonzo - but their performances are loved my many for their passion and integration with the band and the music.

So, from a non pro standpoint, just get with a bunch of people you like as human beings and try your best to make them sound good. If you do that you will most likely rediscover your joy of drumming.

That's my cent.
As always Grea, awesome insight. This really resonates with me. There was only one band I was in that had serious "pro" ambitions and having some of those issues always in my face was a total buzzkill. After that (and even before, but especially after), I made it my mission to never mess with the source of what makes me like to play to begin with again.

It's good to have goals but for some things (creative itch-scratching, for example), I prefer not having anything too specific. Sometimes it's better to just see where the rabbit hole takes you than trying to find a pot of gold down there somewhere (mixed metaphor for mixed up goals :) There are plenty of other interesting discoveries to stumble across without getting wrapped up in trying to know what they are beforehand.

There are enough things in life that aren't necessarily fun, so music, as a as refuge from the dull day-to-day stuff, absolutely has to be be that. At least for me.

When it comes to recreational activities, I'm firmly in the camp that says if it ain't fun, don't do it. Life's short, so if drumming isn't doing it for you, find something else that does. No harm in that. Better to get a good read on your personal satisfaction landscape and make corrections (difficult as they may be) than to stubbornly stick to a outdated course that will never get you where you want to be.
 
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