Is it unethical to buy drums made in China?

The reason I ask this question may be obvious. In light of recent figures documenting the insane pollution levels in China, which I believe are due to the massive amounts of out-sourced manufacturing (China's regulations not as strict as Europe/U.S.), is it ethical to buy drums manufactured in China?

It seems the pollution in China is at staggering highs and a clear threat to environmental decay. If the U.S. and parts of Europe have stricter environmental laws curbing manufacturing practices, is therefore more ethical to buy drums from those countries? The prices of kits made in China are quite attractive (Mapex Saturn, Yamaha Stage Customs and Live Customs, for example) and well built, but would buying such kits contribute to the environmental damage there versus, say, buying a Ludwig Classic Maple kit made in the U.S.?

Just wondering what folks think.

This is interesting. It's the second time it has come up for me within a week. In my case, I bought a kit made from Nyatoh wood. They sounded great on the YouTube video with only a gate on the bass drum and they look great. After I purchased I did a more thorough search on Nyatoh and found activist sites to boycott the wood due to the forest devastation it causes in the region. It apparently is encroaching in forbidden village areas because $ trumps laws. Now I'm just a guy that wants a good kit and I have no idea if any of this is true so I doubt it would have effected my decision. But maybe it would for others. I look at it as if I saved a beautiful Maple from Maine from destruction.

It's gonna be a lot easier to buy drums made outside of China than it is to purchase hardware that's made outside of China.
That being said, I can't help but wonder if the real pollution byproduct (as it pertains to any drumming product) actually comes more from hardware manufacturing than the drums themselves.

Not being Chinese instrument manufacturer, or an authority on environmental issues, I can only speculate.

No. I think the onus falls on the Chinese govt.

Call me racist but that culture is all "money money money" and not very compassionate for people or the environment. If they had the hide to sacrifice a little profit they could produce in a way that was environmentally much safer.

Good point. I think to take a true stance, one would have to cease purchasing all goods from China, not just drums. It would be very difficult to do.

It's kind of hard to avoid buying Chinese goods these days, and I don't think change is going to come from people just volunteering to not to buy their artificially-underpriced stuff. I would instead vote for politicians who will address your issues, or who at least care enough to lie to you about addressing your issues, and, if you're really serious, get politically active yourself.

As for your immediate problem of what to buy, if you buy used you won't be putting money in those companies' pockets, or contributing to demand for their goods.

Hopefully the Chinese people will stand up and fight back. They have before. Don't blame it entirely on the Chinese government. The only reason that the US and Europe have tighter regulations is because the people opposed the pollution that was poisoning us all. Believe me, if the US corporations were left to run wild we would have as much of a problem here. I buy US every chance that I get and I prefer small drum makers. It's a tough market and it's great to have them out there plying their craft. Guru is the only exception that I can think of. Those guys have a sense of craft that you just don't see anymore.

Dre25 said:

No. I think the onus falls on the Chinese govt.

Call me racist but that culture is all "money money money" and not very compassionate for people or the environment. If they had the hide to sacrifice a little profit they could produce in a way that was environmentally much safer.

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Don't forget it's the Australian coal that generates the energy for all that production activity and pollution, and the Australian iron ore... "Money"? Makes the world go round... Careful with these "ethical" discussions because they'll be pointing the finger at you before you know it!

Dutch

Dre25 said:

No. I think the onus falls on the Chinese govt.

Call me racist but that culture is all "money money money" and not very compassionate for people or the environment. If they had the hide to sacrifice a little profit they could produce in a way that was environmentally much safer.

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Nah, I don't think that's racist. The government seems more responsible for that than the wider culture IMO.

My custom kit was 90% built in the U.S.(aside from some assumedly cheap tension rods, S-Hoops, tom arms, etc.). You could simply go that route. Or get something built from the U.K.... hmm, what was the brand name....?

Dutch said:

Don't forget it's the Australian coal that generates the energy for all that production activity and pollution, and the Australian iron ore... "Money"? Makes the world go round... Careful with these "ethical" discussions because they'll be pointing the finger at you before you know it!

Dutch

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True dat.
If it wasn't for all that money, money, money the Chinese were paying us for digging stuff out of a hole in the ground, the GFC in Oz would have been much worse...

toddmc said:

True dat.
If it wasn't for all that money, money, money the Chinese were paying us for digging stuff out of a hole in the ground, the GFC in Oz would have been much worse...

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Exactly, and then we wouldn't have any money to buy those iPhones we love so much... Oh, they're from China too? Bugger....

Dutch

RobertM said:

It seems the pollution [. . .] is at staggering highs and a clear threat to environmental decay [. . .] would buying such kits contribute to the environmental damage [. . .]?

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If you're concerned about making as little negative impact on the planet as possible then why not buy a used kit from somewhere that's as close to you as possible? Just make sure when you go to pick it up you feed your horse on sustainably-grown hay

Bad Tempered Clavier said:

If you're concerned about making as little negative impact on the planet as possible then why not buy a used kit from somewhere that's as close to you as possible?

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Agree with this 100%. Recycling that doesn't involve reprocessing is by far the best method of reducing your purchase environmental impact, but of course, you can't control the upstream affect.

The metal hardware production component of drum manufacture, especially casted parts, has by far the biggest material processing impact, & almost every western drum manufacturer sources in Asia. Shipping is another big one, so add the two together, & the impact is exponentially increased. It could even be argued that Asian drum manufacturers reduce their impact in comparison to western manufacturers by sourcing all of their parts within the same continent. Then factor in the leveller that is distribution of the finished product, & everyone's got a problem.

Perhaps it's even more poignant to consider if it's unethical for Asian customers to buy from US/European companies, but I don't see anyone asking that question.

Also worthy of scrutiny are the statistics & trends themselves. Whilst it's true that China contributes to pollution much more than other countries, & their trend is going in the wrong direction, when you factor in the population that pollution "supports", the figures look quite different. I'd argue that's a more representative picture (see graph below).

The bottom line is this, for the most part (& I know I'll get flamed for this, but I'll say it anyhow), drummers are cheap. Like many other consumer groups, we look to the bottom Dollar. We examine "price" with utmost scrutiny, yet regard "cost" as an afterthought. Cost v.s. overall benefit received is almost lost in the wirl wind of pseudo patriotic marketing. Western consumer demands, with the expectation of ever reducing prices, forces even local manufacturing to outsource their higher cost components, rendering the reality of your patriotic purchase as anything but. If tomorrow, your home market manufacturers reverted to local sourcing, & chose processing methods that not only put quality first, but also lowered direct environmental impact, the resulting price hike complaint "threadfest" would consume this forum.

That drive to ever lower costs also places extreme pressure on outsource destination countries. Such governments are scared to do anything that may increase costs, & therefore decrease their attractiveness as a sourcing destination, no matter how well intentioned they may be personally or collectively. For the main part, it's western "manufacturers" who feed this cycle, by placing their business with the next guy who's prepared to throw more shit in the air than the last guy, & pay the lowest wages into the equation. Why do you think the outsource destinations are cyclical? In the 70's it was Japan, then wider to Taiwan, etc, then China, & probably India next.

Li Youwei said:

but the problem is two sided.

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Oh yes, & hence the thrust of my post

Thank you so much for chiming in. Great to get a perspective "on the ground". You describe the same process that applies to Western outsource destinations past, present, & probably the future. There's the initial scramble for business & capacity/technology. Then follows a strong growth period. After a while, general affluence increases, & with that comes demands for a better environment to live in, improved working conditions, higher wages. China will probably follow a similar path to Japan, although there will always be big cultural & idealogical variations, but the net affect of commercial success is the same. Eventually, the outsource destination becomes a volume consumer, & the relentless drive to reduce prices moves to another area of the world. And so the cycle continues. The really big issue there is that global consumption increases exponentially, therefore compounding the problem for future generations.

But in the West, who are we to criticise. Most western nations were more than happy to be the centre of industrial growth over the last two centuries. Did we care that we polluted & plundered our planet? - nah!. Ok, the affects were mitigated somewhat by a much lower population, & of course, we weren't as aware of the wider implications of our actions, but that "blind eye" continues today. Do we blame the destination that provides for our consumerism? Is it right for countries that revelled in their industrial wealth to deny other countries of the same opportunity, especially when we're happy to feed the fire as a direct result of our own greed for "bargains"? How do we justify supporting our own consumer based standards of living with a pollution profile that's disproportionate to our populations? Can you imagine how the statistics would look if you added apportioned outsourcing pollution to the per capita figures? Who's pollution is it - the destination that supplies the goods, or the location that orders/consumes the goods?

Big questions eh!

As someone who is in the U.S. workforce, I can tell you that the "cost savings" of outsourcing work to China is driving a lot of the manufacturing work there. Our corporations don't have any second thoughts about the ramifications of shipping off work to a place where workers operate in unsafe conditions.

As long as our businesses continue to subsidize this industry - and, in the process, eliminate jobs in our "local" community - then we have no leg to stand on to criticize the Chinese. Criticize the Chinese government, that makes sense; but also understand the role our own business leaders play in the perpetuity of the conditions the Chinese workers are enduring. Our business leaders like their work to come cheap. Most don't think much beyond that.

I feel like I should chime in here. I lived in China for a short while in 2005 and got to see a lot of the country.

China is a really complicated place. Pollution is a big problem but I don't think that drum manufacturing has any significant contribution to it. Most people in China are quite poor by Western standards and infrastructure, especially in outlying areas, is not what we have here. Imagine a Chinese city with a factory that produces drums. Say it employs 500 people. The factory is probably relatively new and has central heat and such. The 500 people who work there will probably go home every night and fire up their coal burning stoves to heat their homes. Those 500 coal-burning households are probably worse from an environmental standpoint than the factory's incremental draw on whatever power plant supplies its energy.

But maybe that power plant is coal burning too. Is the problem really with the drum manufacturing then? They are just one of thousands of downstream energy consumers trying to make a living like everyone else. Pollution in China is a much broader and multifaceted issue.

If you're concerned about ethics related to Chinese manufacturing, the far greater problem is labor practices and how workers are treated in some factories.

The fact is that everything we buy has a true cost that is not always reflected in the price to the end user, especially when it comes from China, India, or other countries like that where factory workers aren't paid a living wage. This means that they are paying part of the cost for you, keeping your price low. I would suspect that this is more of an issue with the apparel or consumables industries than with the drum industry, but if you think too much about it you will either get really depressed or you will go out there and try to change the world. Buy fair trade whenever you can.

Pretty much everything said today about buying products made in China is what people said in the 1970's about buying products made in Japan.

And as mentioned, it doesn't matter what manufacture you buy a drum kit from, it's going to have some made-in-China parts. Be it the lugs, or rims or tensions rods, or washers, or whatever.

You may 'feel good' about purchasing a mostly US-made kit from the big makers but know they also sell China-made lower priced kits as well.

I was a very quick study when it came to buying used or vintage. Ludwig club dates will do that to a person. Thanks for that Chart Andy. Had no idea that Aussies were leading the pack.

I don't think buying a drumset from China is unethical.

However, I do think that buying a "China cymbal" is unethical (regardless of where it's made.) Those are the most annoying sounding cymbals ever to walk the planet and any metal show I attend (unwillingly) includes a room full of overexcited drummers bashing on those loud clangy horrible sounding cymbals. It's unethical to force other human beings to be subjected that "sound."

larryz said:

Thanks for that Chart Andy. Had no idea that Aussies were leading the pack.

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Keep in mind a per capita chart is not showing TOTAL levels of CO2 emitted. Those are the figures that impact(warming of) the globe.

Also Might be important to separate 'pollution' from CO2 'emission'. The particulate matter people are breathing in Beijing is not CO2.

My last point is also that drums are a miniscule fraction of a drop in the bucket on anything to do with manufacturing impacts.