am I the last one to know about this technique for playing lower volume on cymbals?

evolving_machine

Silver Member
I discovered this strange but useful thing. It bothers me that it has taken me so long to discover this. If I play/ ride the ride cymbal as close to the edge of the cymbal as possible, while still playing on the top side of the cymbal, I can lower the volume of the cymbal. Normally, I ride the part that is in the middle of the radius of the cymbal, I think this is called the bow of the cymbal, as opposed to the bell and the edge.

This works best on my 21.5” Zildjian ride from the 60’s. However, when I do play the cymbal close to the edge, it does not have the optimum bounce and it does take more effort to play the cymbal in this area close to the edge. It is sort of like playing on a pillow that has little bounce.

The question is, am I the last one to know about this technique for playing lower volume on cymbals?

When I play my snare drum and I want to have different dynamics, I play close to the rim of the snare drum to lower the volume, but when I want a good full sound, I hit the drum right in the center. My snare drum heads wear out in the center and also towards the left of the center near the rim.
 
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The question is, am I the last one to know about this technique for playing lower volume on cymbals?

You must be. :)

I started bashing drums and cymbals when I was 17. I then started playing drums and bashing cymbals within the year. It took me a while to figure out that you didn't always have to bash the cymbals...a LOT long than it should have, actually (like, 4 years or so), but I was young and naive.

Note: When I say "bash the cymbals" I mean to play then on the edges with the shoulder of the stick. Playing with the tip of the stick on the very edge of the cymbal on the top usually produces a much more pleasing "crash" sound. Your results may vary, depending on your cymbal and stick choice. If you're smacking sewer lids with tree trunks, bash away! If you're learning to play the drums as an expressive instrument, there's so much more to it than that...
 
You must be. :)

I started bashing drums and cymbals when I was 17. I then started playing drums and bashing cymbals within the year. It took me a while to figure out that you didn't always have to bash the cymbals...a LOT long than it should have, actually (like, 4 years or so), but I was young and naive.

Note: When I say "bash the cymbals" I mean to play then on the edges with the shoulder of the stick. Playing with the tip of the stick on the very edge of the cymbal on the top usually produces a much more pleasing "crash" sound. Your results may vary, depending on your cymbal and stick choice. If you're smacking sewer lids with tree trunks, bash away! If you're learning to play the drums as an expressive instrument, there's so much more to it than that...

I am saying just the opposite. When I ride the cymbal very close to the edge, I can lower the volume. You seem to be saying you are increasing the volume when crashing it at edge. I am talking about riding the edge, you seem to be talking about crashing the edge.
 
There's less attack (read: more fundamental) at the edge of most cymbals, so the apparent volume is lower. Not a new idea, but certainly worth including on the list of things that help drummers generate less volume.

Bermuda
 
I guess it is better late than never that I found this. But, it seems that I knew about this when I first starting playing drums many years ago, but got comfortable with playing on the bow for ride patterns, the bell for the unique bell sound, and only crashed the edge on the side of the cymbal.

This 21.5, I am using has a lot of volume, and seems to be at eleven most of the time. Now it is good that I found a volume control for my ride cymbal.
 
On a slight tangent: So often drummers don't realize how loud they can be in the sound coming off the stage. I am also experimenting with the intricacies of existing inside a mix, after many years fighting to be on top of the mix. This is one trick I have been using a bit in worship team, for example. I won't say you're the last person to find it out, but better late than never!
 
There's less attack (read: more fundamental) at the edge of most cymbals, so the apparent volume is lower. Not a new idea, but certainly worth including on the list of things that help drummers generate less volume.

Bermuda

Also, edges tend to be thinner. It makes sense that OP would find a lack of rebound and a darker sound at the edge. :)
 
I am saying just the opposite. When I ride the cymbal very close to the edge, I can lower the volume. You seem to be saying you are increasing the volume when crashing it at edge. I am talking about riding the edge, you seem to be talking about crashing the edge.

My apologies. I thought you were referring to the "opening up" of the cymbal when you play it on the edge, ie "crashing" it. My bad. I guess I was reading into it what I wanted to read into it.

When I want to play a ride cymbal quieter, I use the old-fashioned method of striking it with less velocity. Different parts of the cymbal sound differently, too, and I utilize that. And, yes, I agree the edge of the cymbal is usually the "softest" area to hit, although I had this one ride cymbal where this, oddly, wasn't the case.
 
Since we're talking about low volume, choking up on the stick is a very effective method. There's naturally less velocity. Less reach too. Sometimes I have to play this one song with more of the stick behind my hand than in front of my hand to get the right volume balance when the room is empty. It probably looks silly, but it works.
 
LarryAce, I appreciate the advice on chocking the sticks. That is a good way. As I said earlier in the post, I play off of the center of the head, on the side near the rim, to play at a lower volume, but I also do that for a dynamic range.

I do find it hard to go from playing a tune that is aggressive, and fast, and one that I rehearsed at a volume where I can let the sticks bounce, and then I have to play that same tune at a much softer volume where I have to create my own bounce off the drum or the cymbal.

There have been times where I just put the sticks down and play with my hands, and hope that I do not cut up my hands too much when I hit the cymbals and drum heads with my hands. Not because I have a fear of seeing my own blood, but I just do not like having blood stains on the drum heads.

I guess this is where practicing on a pillow would help me control my volume. The pillow would teach me to bounce without the assistance from the drum or the cymbal.

It is much easier, for me, to play lower volume for tunes where I can play a simple pattern. On those tunes I can just control the volume by playing softer.

This gentleman used smaller sticks to get that very low volume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-H6Xt17DMc
 
Interesting. I go to the outer edge of the cymbal for the opposite reason: to get a washier, louder sound. To go quieter, I stay in the middle range of the ride, where there is more definition, and just use less stick height (make smaller strokes). I also use primarily French grip on the ride.
 
I guess. To me, every inch of a cymbal makes a different noise, and can even make other noises depending on how you hit it. I'd rather just pay attention to my stick heights for volume, and use the different parts of the cymbal for different sounds or textures as I play.

Even with my crashes, though, I nearly never go for the traditional "crash" sound by using the tip of my stick on the bow, that gives what I consider a bit of a hollow crash.
 
I guess. To me, every inch of a cymbal makes a different noise, and can even make other noises depending on how you hit it. I'd rather just pay attention to my stick heights for volume, and use the different parts of the cymbal for different sounds or textures as I play.

Even with my crashes, though, I nearly never go for the traditional "crash" sound by using the tip of my stick on the bow, that gives what I consider a bit of a hollow crash.

Yeah, I had never heard of that technique before two weeks ago. Edge crashes for me, thanks.
 
To me that feels like a delicate part of the cymbal so I would avoid it - but I might be wrong.

I prefer a quieter ride (like my k con) and if I wanna get loud I can get on it a bit more.
 
You can also tilt the the stick up as if the stick is going into the cymbal, I think it is called dead sticking. The same works for the snare(traditional grip). I also clamp my ride, to get it to open up into the higher overtones at lower volumes, this way I don't have to hit it right on the edge to get it to open up. I think the reason you have to play on the edge at lower volumes, is because the cymbal has to flex to sound like a cymbal and not like a bell or gong, so clamping it makes it easier to flex...
 
You can't just play where you play your gear but do it softer? Playing your snare close to the edge gives it a weaker sound, as does playing your ride close to the edge. I do t change where I strike my instruments, I just lighten my technique or use different techniques. When if someone says "I want to hear some Eagles" and you have to get that nice phat snare sound at 1/5 the regular volume?
 
To me that feels like a delicate part of the cymbal so I would avoid it - but I might be wrong.

I prefer a quieter ride (like my k con) and if I wanna get loud I can get on it a bit more.

What's delicate? The edge? Don't bash it. Glancing, correct cymbal use will not damage anything. Putting them flat and bashing like some of the neck-tattooed guys around is what will break cymbals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcYal8zv97g

The good stuff starts at 1:98
 
You can't just play where you play your gear but do it softer? Playing your snare close to the edge gives it a weaker sound, as does playing your ride close to the edge. I do t change where I strike my instruments, I just lighten my technique or use different techniques. When if someone says "I want to hear some Eagles" and you have to get that nice phat snare sound at 1/5 the regular volume?

Bo, sometimes I am playing with an acoustic guitar player who is singing without any amplification. I probably do not have the control you have at these volumes, but I am working at it. It is really tough or me to get that low of a volume, I am looking for as many tricks as I can find. At this volume, I choke the sticks, sometimes play with my hands without sticks. I have a foam pad that I put on the bass drum so that I do not get too loud. And this trick by playing at the top of the cymbal at the edge area, works for me when I have to get really low volume and maintain a steady beat.

I've been practicing on a pillow and that seems to help my control of volume as well.

Bo, what do you do to improve your ability to play low volume?
 
Bo, sometimes I am playing with an acoustic guitar player who is singing without any amplification. I probably do not have the control you have at these volumes, but I am working at it. It is really tough or me to get that low of a volume, I am looking for as many tricks as I can find. At this volume, I choke the sticks, sometimes play with my hands without sticks. I have a foam pad that I put on the bass drum so that I do not get too loud. And this trick by playing at the top of the cymbal at the edge area, works for me when I have to get really low volume and maintain a steady beat.

I've been practicing on a pillow and that seems to help my control of volume as well.

Bo, what do you do to improve your ability to play low volume?

I've found playing with acoustic guitars depends more on the mind set of the acoustic guitarist. Take pagode samba style for example. They use nylon string guitars in percussion ensembles, the function of the guitar is mostly for the the guitarist to pitch his singing and keep time. Most guitarists in the US and probably Europe too, think of guitar as a solo/lead instrument, for these guitarists it's been my experience, there is no point, they don't get it. There used to be good acoustic guitars in jazz, the guitars had thick strings and arched tops, the players used more of a percussive rhythmic style known as the Freddie Green style, after Freddie Green who played with Ellington. My point is that unless the particular acoustic player is hip to it and knows how to comp, it won't matter what your dynamics are, learn cajon.
 
I've found playing with acoustic guitars depends more on the mind set of the acoustic guitarist. Take pagode samba style for example. They use nylon string guitars in percussion ensembles, the function of the guitar is mostly for the the guitarist to pitch his singing and keep time. Most guitarists in the US and probably Europe too, think of guitar as a solo/lead instrument, for these guitarists it's been my experience, there is no point, they don't get it. There used to be good acoustic guitars in jazz, the guitars had thick strings and arched tops, the players used more of a percussive rhythmic style known as the Freddie Green style, after Freddie Green who played with Ellington. My point is that unless the particular acoustic player is hip to it and knows how to comp, it won't matter what your dynamics are, learn cajon.

I will play a conga with a few extra pieces, but I refuse to use the cajon. I really do not have a logical explanation for it. I just dislike them. Using a mac/ apple device I have a logical explanation why I hate those, they are evil, like steve jobs, but the cajon I can not figure it out why I hate them so. They seem to take away from the work I devoted to learning the art of drumming. They seem like a kids toy or a device for folk players who need a percussive sound.
 
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