Stage volume

Not knowing the social dynamic, it's possible that the "leader" may lean toward a delegative leadership style rather than a directive style. Rather than come off as a hard-a$$, he may well have been struggling with the same concern(s), but didn't know how/when to bring it up without alienating band members.

Uncle Larry, you may just be the catalyst he needed to rectify the volume problem.

But I wouldn't get my hopes up...
 
Band Meeting:

You: We're too loud. It's not just me. Getting that feedback from people in the audience.
Them: Crickets
You: I quit.

Life is too short to not be having fun while playing out. Plenty of bands out there.

My 2 cents.
 
From my perspective, you have to ask yourself, if the drums were too loud for the rest of the band, would anyone mention it? Damn sure they would!

You did the right thing Larry, regardless of the outcome. Sitting and putting up with a situation that you're not enjoying is very stressful and to be honest, not worth putting up with for any length of time. If it works out, or not, as the case may be, you can live with yourself regardless.

Incidentially, I'm with Grea on the outcome front...
 
I have a friend who plays lead guitar, and he gets told every 3rd song, he's too loud. He turns down for one song and then it goes right back to where it was. None of my circle of musicians will play with him anymore. He just doesn't get it at all.

If they play with amps that aren't stacks, then a quick solution is for them to buy amp stands so their amps aren't blasting into the backs of their legs, they tilt them up so they are aimed at their heads. That fixes volume problems almost instantly. or even to sit the amps up on chairs as a secondary plan...

In reality some musicians think that everything needs to be full volume all the time, and that their tube amps don't get the proper sound until they are set to 11. There is no cure. There is nothing that you can do or say that will have any effect on those guys at all.

Good luck!
 
There is a volume of bass that sits just right with live unamplified drums and it is a good volume, but can be done with a 150 Watt 15" Trace combo with both volumes (pre and master) half way (passive bass). This isn't going to hurt anyone for sure. As a bassist I am so concious of this I'm often too quiet. Better to be told to turn up though : )

Stage/rehearsal volume problems has blighted my time in rock/covers bands. The guitarist traditionally is the main culprit but keys players have been joining in on the act too.

Davo
 
34513325.jpg
 
We will see what happens. No response so far. Not quitting. When you get in a fight with your wife, do you get divorced? Not if you love her. This problem is not that large that it makes me want to quit. We don't play small rooms that often, this band is more of a festival and large room band. But we do get regular bar gigs once in a while.

I just want to shake up the status quo. Raise the bar in an area that needs it. Plus this is a great opportunity to witness how this band actually functions when everything is not all smiles and compliments. I want to see the dark side to see how these guys handle a problem.

I have a feeling I will get no response. If I don't, I will keep my mouth shut and see what happens at the next gig. If the problem is still there...I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

In this band, to get a good mix, (IMO) the bass, drums should be lowest, along with the piano, then the guitar, harp and the B3 should be on top of that, then the vocals.

If I can get the bass players volume in check, the rest is downhill. Maybe I'll turn into the volume Nazi in the band and be the self appointed a$$&^%* until this issue is in line.
 
has this happened in situation where there was a sound man and a monitor system?

a lot of times on a stage without monitors the person standing directly in front of their amp is the only one who cannot hear it

especially bass frequencies because they develop farther from their source and with the distance between peeks the waves tend to go around things in their way.
the bass frequency wave can maintain its shape and still bend where high frequencies are narrow and tightly packed and tend to be more directional

I would expect a bass player to know this

nothing monitors can't remedy ...and a proper sound man would put this situation in check with the quickness
 
Larry,

I think your email was fine. You might be pleasantly surprised and the next gig will have a better overall stage volume.

My post is dripping with optimism.

You're good at being straight up with people. Don't worry about it.
 
When we have a sound man, normally we are in a larger venue and it's not nearly the issue it was the other night. We have monitors, but they are for vocals only. So each respective instrument has it's own amp onstage that is used as the stage monitor. If you saw a band and the bass guitar was the loudest thing onstage...you can imagine what adding a B3, a piano, a piercing guitar and a harp does. Then there's the vocals. Plus the way the bass player plays...he doesn't leave a lot of space. As a result, I have to distill my notes so it doesn't sound too cluttered. There's just a lot of sound to deal with. Volume is exponentially critical, the more players you have on stage.

The bass player should wear plugs. They would block the high freqs and he should be able to hear the low notes without the clutter. Get this, the bass player has a PA and is also a sound guy. He is a passable sound guy. We just did a festival last week where he (and an assistant) ran the sound for us and the 3 opening acts. That was outdoors, and the mix was good. So you'd think he'd know better. Go figure.

Sometimes I wish I was the leader. Maybe one possible solution is to use the bass amp like a vocal monitor, point it at the bass players face, away from the audience. As it is now, it's always behind him, next to me. You have no idea how many times I wanted to reach over and spin his volume knob down.
 
So, what is your next step, Lar? How do you respond?

I guess the first question you need to answer, for yourself and the bandleader, is do "you believe we can even address the concerns you raise to your satisfaction."

If the answer is truly yes, then perhaps you need to lay out the specific changes that would need to occur for that to happen. I mean VERY specific, and they'll have to include a way to make them measurable. That will be a challenge.
 
Last edited:
OK I got a reply, here it is:

Larry,

I read your email a little while ago, and I want to address your concerns in a rational manner.

You make a few points that are worthy of discussion in terms of our volume. I wish you had stated them succinctly and objectively, and without editorial.

I’ve tried to consider criticism from anyone who cares enough to share constructively and respectfully. Except when we’re occasionally horsing around in rehearsals, I have always tried to treat members of the Porkroll Project with the respect due a fellow musician and comrade.

Such was not the case with your email. It read like the ranting of someone who has more than a night of volume miscues and mistakes at issue. The tone of your email was neither constructive nor respectful; of me as a band leader or your fellow band mates. Instead of suggesting how we might address your concerns together as a band, you chose to simply attack fellow band members and unfairly characterize the band as a whole. I find this unprofessional and unacceptable.

I am always ready to work with any and all band members to constructively address problems within the band or issues with our performance. However, the tone of your email phrases like “totally unacceptable”, “circus like last night”, “a bunch of hacks”, and “…sound like a bunch of teenagers”, leads me to question whether you believe we can even address the concerns you raise to your satisfaction.

Regards,
Neil

my personal opinion uncle L

this guy sounds like a power tripping a$$hole

he uses 3 paragraphs repeating the same point ...like a child who took constructive criticism as a personal attack

I thought your email was direct with the projects forward momentum in mind

sounds like a player of your caliber may be slumming with these guys

there are bands built of quality pro players that would love to have you holding down the engine room .

I don't suggest you leave or fire back with some heated email....I just think this guy has a Darth Vader complex and may be better dealt with in person
 
Your band leader Neil does raise some valid points, but then again, so do you.

It does sound like he is willing to address your concerns so long as you remain respectful to him and his band. I think he made it very clear that YOU work for HIM. :-(

You know, sometimes everybody needs to let off a little steam, and when we do, we may come off a little brash in the process. That's life.

Stick to your guns and just play the game. it's for the music that were all in this, right?

Good luck!!
 
See, this right here is why I can't stand musicians some days.

I guess at this point you have to ask yourself if this is something surmountable and survivable with this group of guys, and if it isn't, how much continuing on with them means to you personally and professionally.

A bit over a year ago I left a pretty successful and well-liked band in part because it was hellish work and every gig turned into a major drama. YMMV, but I wouldn't submit to that again in a dozen years.

Hope whatever you decide, it works out for you. And failing that, you at least will have the nicest drums in town very shortly. Chin up, man.
 
Don't reply back. Wait until you see him in person to discuss it, and only if he brings it up.

I can see right through that email. I work with people like this all the time.

His feelings are a little hurt because of your opinion. His pride got dinged because he characterized the constructive criticism to not be valid because you coupled it with your frustration.

He prefers protocol over achieving a better result. I translate his comments to essentially be "I'm the band leader and am willing to improve but only if I think you the way you do it is appropriate"

Let him just think about it and see what he does. If he jumps your shit about it, tell him that emails sometimes read "cold" and he shouldn't consider your words to be so harsh.

I truly think that anyone who has played in any band for any decent length of time should develop a thick enough skin to hear the words, "Turn it down asshole!" I know I have on more than one occasion and it was never enough reason to not be musicians and friends.

Your talking about a band, not a pro studio session where more diplomacy and decorum is required.

There a lot of big babies out there. Sheesh
 
Well shit. It took me too long to reply to your post.

Your reply was good though. Now just let it sit.
 
Notice how he put himself first
"me as a band leader, or your bandmates"

Man, I don't know how some people put up with that.
 
Up to you Larry when you've had enough, don't ever feel bad about getting out of an unprofessional situation. It's your reputation at stake, too.
Bermuda

This right here, Larry.

IMHO, behind all discussions of dissatisfaction and frustration with others in any music relationship (and plenty of other types too) has to be the solid fact that at a certain point the problem is a deal breaker and we will walk away unless solved.

Not saying we throw that out anytime a small grievance comes up. However we have to know what the deal breakers are and what would bring us to that point. Once that happens and we let our partners know that walking away is a possible option we'll find out quickly what others value or don't value of what we bring to the table.

I even see it being done calmly without anger (although that's where it starts for me and most of us). You explain what the problem is, you provide a practical solution and then let them know that you wish them well but if it isn't dealt with earnestly, you'll need to leave them to their own solutions with another player.

I know for me sometimes it's that feeling of being backed in a corner where there are no other options if I DO walk away. Then I have to just plan to live with out or deal with the issues. As I get older it's more live with out than the latter.

Jim
 
Agree with the thick skin comment Philippe. When it comes to music, I tend not to pussy foot around an issue. And my skin is thick enough to weather any retorts. I learned that in a healthy relationship, venting needs to happen, and it has to be gotten past. I don't hold grudges. I see it for what it is, a vent. I vented and now I'm OK. Neil might not be, he may hold grudges, or he may not. We shall see. I just can't sit back and not care with this band, it's too good.

Personally, IMO, Neil can be any way he likes. But the same goes for me too. I don't have to like him as a person to be able to play with him, as long as the music is smoking. Out of the other 5 guys, I really like 3 a lot. The other 2 are Eddie and Neil. Neil has been an asshole to me in the past, simply for asking questions about our upcoming Memphis trip to the International Blues Challenge that we earned a spot in. He basically got snippy and told me to go and read about it to answer my questions. I only had like 2 questions, when it was and how long our sets are. So I learned to never ask him any more questions. I let that stuff go, because it has nothing to do with the music. But when it comes to music, I can't not say something.
Eddie I like a little better, but he pisses me off when he overpowers everything. It makes me want to play so loud that they all turn around to say something, so I can in turn throw it right back on them. But that is unprofessional and I wouldn't do that at a gig. Fun to think about though lol

I will, in the future, word any negs much more carefully so I can get my point across more efficiently.

I have to say, I'm a little surprised at the amount of "quit" suggestions I am getting. This is nowhere near dealbreaking for me, it is a big annoyance though. It only happens in small enclosed areas. If I wanted to quit over this, I don't belong in this business. People have to learn how to "fight" in a relationship. In healthy relationships this is understood. Thick skin. Don't hold grudges. Vent, get it all out, forgive, move past it, in a better way.
 
Well, hopefully it goes well. I had an issue last night with a loud bass player. Our regular guy is on vacation, so we brought in our old bass player for the night. This guy was so loud that I couldn't even hear myself on the recording. All I could hear was my snare drum and my ride and hi hats a little. It really sucked in a way, but it was still a great night of music despite his loudness. I'm just glad it wasn't a gig. There's a reason he doesn't jam with us anymore. He doesn't hold the root notes down enough either; not a pocket player by any stretch.
 
Back
Top