SNARE TUNING

Re: Black Panther Maple snare 13 x 6 tuning

Maybe a normal Ambassador snare reso head or Evans Hazy...and a Remo Powerstroke 3 or Evans ST dry as batter? Would give you less ring and less resonance. Overall a drier fatter sound.

Karl
I have to agree with the Evans ST dry as a batter head. I use a Evans genera HD dry.
Takes away some of the ring but leaves still enough for my taste.
 
Re: Black Panther Maple snare 13 x 6 tuning

I have to agree with the Evans ST dry as a batter head. I use a Evans genera HD dry.
Takes away some of the ring but leaves still enough for my taste.

Yep, in my opinion it is much better than such a muffling ring. I would even prefer an ST Dry to a Powerstroke.

btw, is it right that an ST Dry is just a bit lighter in weight and thickness than an HD Dry??

Karl
 
Re: Black Panther Maple snare 13 x 6 tuning

Yep, in my opinion it is much better than such a muffling ring. I would even prefer an ST Dry to a Powerstroke.

btw, is it right that an ST Dry is just a bit lighter in weight and thickness than an HD Dry??

Karl

No, other way around. The HD has a 5 mil ply and a 7 mil ply. The ST has two 7 mil plies. However, the HD has the muffle ring and the ST doesn't.
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Hello everybody...

I've recently had problems with tuning myself, too. Don't know why nobody mentioned it, but tuning the resonant snare head is damn hard because it's so thin. I overstreched some portions of my Evans Hazy300 so it's all wrinkly when you loosen it. Maybe I should've been extra careful? (and I was trying to be, but alas) Do you have problems like that? I also found it very hard to hear the differences between the lugs (compared to my toms).

Another thing : how do you increase the "sweet spot" on the snare drum? It's too small for me (about 6-7 cm in diameter) and when I hit the drum outside of it the snares have a ugly sustain to them (like the drum is "beathing" - huuuh; hard to describe) and the sound lasts a lot longer. Those two sounds are very much different and I would like them to be more even.

And for the specifications : I have a PDP Hammered Brass snare (very pleased with it) which sounded great when both stock heads (both single ply, but not really open) were cranked high (and I guess they were a bit dead because of wear but I liked the sound). Now I was looking for a more open sound (not too open, though) so I bought Evans Genera and Hazy300 and I was trying to make the batter head fairly high and the bottom higher. But then I had problems with the bottom and it kind of "slips" when I tighten it (I can hear the head slipping I think- click sounds when tightening). I'm trying to switch to a bit more open sound because of the music - it is better when playing with the band (and I like drier when I'm playing alone).

And for my own tuning tip - I've found that tuning both heads a bit higher every once in a while helps. I guess it's because they are streching from wear. What do you think?
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

It sounds to me like a lot of people here are going into this whole drum thing from the wrong direction.
Drums are supposed to "breathe"!
They're big resonant chambers with thin membranes stretched across them!
If you want a dead, flat sound, just play the cardboard boxes the drums came in and paint them up so the look appeals to you.

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Markovski,

It sounds to me like you actually have a well made drum, because you have it setup to be rather sensitive.
The "sweet spot" as you call it is the dead spot in the center of the head, correct?
That's usually larger on the less "crafted" drums.
One thing you can do is to de-tune only the 4 tuning rods on the resonant side of the drum that surround the snare.
Do this in baby steps. I recommend starting with 1/4 turn and working from there.
Remember, when de-tuning, you actually have to go past the point that you want to end up at, then tune back up to the slacker tuning.
The rule is ALWAYS tune "UP ".
For instance, on those 4 rods, to set them 1/4 turn looser, detune them 1/2 turn, then tighten 1/4 turn.




Elvis
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Markovski,

It sounds to me like you actually have a well made drum, because you have it setup to be rather sensitive.
The "sweet spot" as you call it is the dead spot in the center of the head, correct?
That's usually larger on the less "crafted" drums.
One thing you can do is to de-tune only the 4 tuning rods on the resonant side of the drum that surround the snare.
Do this in baby steps. I recommend starting with 1/4 turn and working from there.
Remember, when de-tuning, you actually have to go past the point that you want to end up at, then tune back up to the slacker tuning.
The rule is ALWAYS tune "UP ".
For instance, on those 4 rods, to set them 1/4 turn looser, detune them 1/2 turn, then tighten 1/4 turn.
Elvis

First of all, thanks for the reply Elvis.
I find the idea of detuning the lugs around the snare interesting and I doubt I would've considered that. (it's like a forbidden zone - the thing I was always reading about was to always tune the head with itself, I think the DrumTuning Bible says that?).

The "breathing" sound I'm talking about isn't an open, nice sound. It's the sound of somebody blowing on the snare wires, very annoying and very different from the "dead" sweet spot (yes, you guessed it, it's dead). And I'm looking for a drier sound because of the sensitivity that goes with it (and because I like it), with a bit of metal ringing. Of course there's a lot of experimenting and head changing to be involved and your tip is sure to help.
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Markovski,

You're welcome. The detuning of the 4 rods that surround the snare is actually an old trick.
I learned it after reading a short article that was written by one of the drum tech's for the Doobie Brothers.
You might want to combine that with an external dampening ring for the batter side head.
Remo calls them "O-Rings". There's also "Ritchie Rings", etc.
You can also make them out of old drumheads that are the same size, that you might have laying around.
If you make the ring yourself, make it about 1.5" wide and trim to your liking (if you need to).
If you find yourself in need of a new batter head anyway, might I suggest something along the lines of a Remo PS3 or an Aquarian Studio-X.
These are but a couple of the various "self-muffled" heads on the market that employ a built in version of the external muffling ring I wrote about above.
Personally, I prefer the Studio-X. It just sounds "nicer" to me, compared to the Remo, but it is not "adjustable", as the entire ring is glued to the head.
Anyway, try that and see what you think.


Elvis
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

I have a problem with my Tama Superstar snare drum. It's a 14x5,5 snare drum, coated ambassador on batter side, clear ambassador on resonant side. The resonant head is brand new, the batter head has seen better days. Lots of stick marks, and the coating has been beaten off on a few small spots.

The problem is that, whatever I do, I can't seem to tune it so that it won't buzz along with my toms and especially my bassdrum. Getting it to sound beautiful is not a problem, it's a good snare drum. But I really get in a bad mood when my snare buzzes along to my other drums.... Does anyone have a clue on what I should do?

Edit: switching from the coated ambassador to the Tama Powercraft coated snare head that I had lying around in the attic (and never used) helped slightly, but not a whole lot.
 
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Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Big_Philly,

I just addressed that.
See my recent posts.
The other thing you can do is to retune either your toms, bass drum or the snare drum so that the snare side is not tensioned to vibrate sympathetically with the other drums.
Sounds like everything is tuned to some note that corressponds with the the note coming from everything else.
Lastly, you could just not worry about it.
When playing with other musicians, snare buzz is often lost in the din made by the rest of the band.
You notice it because you're sitting right next to the snare drum, but the audience wouldn't notice it.
If the buzz is causing a problem in a studio situtaion, try my other suggestions.


Elvis
 
Re: THE SNARE TUNING THREAD.

Thanks a lot, I'll give it a go tomorrow (I feel like doing it now but it's 1:45AM, might be a bad idea to start tuning my snare drum at this time unless I really wanna get stabbed).
 
Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I was just wondering if anyone else experiences the same thing that I do when it comes to tuning an Ambassador snare side head. I've tried other snare side heads, but the Ambassador seems to be the only one I really like to give me the sound I'm looking for. When I put it on, I initially tune it so that it's pretty tight and let it sit overnight. If I play my snare ( a 6 1/2 x 14 supraphonic) without messing with the snare side head much the next day, the snare sounds OK, but not the way I like it. It's not until I crank the head down even more that it makes the drum "pop" and give it that nice response that is usually sought after in a snare sound. When I look at the bottom of the drum from a side view, the head is cranked down so far that the bottom rim is almost flush with the surface of the head. A long time ago when I first saw that, I was afraid that maybe I tightened it too far and that the head had stretched out, but it sounded really good and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I've read of other pro drummers describing the same thing. Have any of you experienced this? If you can't get the "pop" from your snare and you are using a snare side Ambassador, it may be that the head needs to be tuned up higher. I know it does for me. Any thoughts...comments?
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I was just wondering if anyone else experiences the same thing that I do when it comes to tuning an Ambassador snare side head. I've tried other snare side heads, but the Ambassador seems to be the only one I really like to give me the sound I'm looking for. When I put it on, I initially tune it so that it's pretty tight and let it sit overnight. If I play my snare ( a 6 1/2 x 14 supraphonic) without messing with the snare side head much the next day, the snare sounds OK, but not the way I like it. It's not until I crank the head down even more that it makes the drum "pop" and give it that nice response that is usually sought after in a snare sound. When I look at the bottom of the drum from a side view, the head is cranked down so far that the bottom rim is almost flush with the surface of the head. A long time ago when I first saw that, I was afraid that maybe I tightened it too far and that the head had stretched out, but it sounded really good and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I've read of other pro drummers describing the same thing. Have any of you experienced this? If you can't get the "pop" from your snare and you are using a snare side Ambassador, it may be that the head needs to be tuned up higher. I know it does for me. Any thoughts...comments?

I have seen that on some drums; as you say it doesn't seem to matter. You need to take care putting it on your snare stand, however. ;-)

BTW, have you ever tried a Diplomat snare side? I'm a total convert, it's both louder and more sensitive.
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I've discovered that after tightening past a certain point the snare side head isn't going to rise in pitch, but will just become more choked, giving less volume, resonance and sensitivity. If you like a high-pitched pop, you shouldn't use a 6,5" deep snare. My 5" Acrolite pops and cracks quite enough, and the bottom head isn't anywhere near its highest point. How's your batter head tuned in relation to the snare side? I get a quick pop by tuning them to a minor third interval, and a slightly fatter sound by detuning the batter head down to a perfect fourth or fifth.
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I have seen that on some drums; as you say it doesn't seem to matter. You need to take care putting it on your snare stand, however. ;-)

BTW, have you ever tried a Diplomat snare side? I'm a total convert, it's both louder and more sensitive.

No, I haven't tried a diplomat snare side head. I was afraid I would break it because I'm a bit of a heavy hitter. The increased volume aspect is intriguing though as I'm getting older and my hearing isn't what it used to be :eek:) Good point about the snare stand.

wavelength said:
I've discovered that after tightening past a certain point the snare side head isn't going to rise in pitch, but will just become more choked, giving less volume, resonance and sensitivity. If you like a high-pitched pop, you shouldn't use a 6,5" deep snare. My 5" Acrolite pops and cracks quite enough, and the bottom head isn't anywhere near its highest point. How's your batter head tuned in relation to the snare side? I get a quick pop by tuning them to a minor third interval, and a slightly fatter sound by detuning the batter head down to a perfect fourth or fifth.

You are correct in that after a certain point the head does become more choked. I don't have it tightened to that point. I do like a pop out of my snare, but not necessarily a "high pitched" one. More of a sound that explodes off the drum when struck, not one that I have to "dig out" so to speak. My 6 1/2 x 14 supra sounds awesome both live and recorded. I also have a 5 x 14 which sounds great too. If I want a higher pitched "pop", I'll go with that one. My batter head is tuned up moderately high, but not as high as the bottom head. I tune my toms in the manner you describe with a minor third or third interval between heads with the bottom tighter, but with my snare, I'm not as concerned with the intervals. I mainly tune the top head up for pitch, and just go for the feel and stick response of the top head (the bottom head plays a part here as well) and an explosive sound with plenty of snare response. On all the recordings that I've done and live shows, my snare always seems to sound good so I must be doing something right :eek:)
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I was just wondering if anyone else experiences the same thing that I do when it comes to tuning an Ambassador snare side head. I've tried other snare side heads, but the Ambassador seems to be the only one I really like to give me the sound I'm looking for. When I put it on, I initially tune it so that it's pretty tight and let it sit overnight. If I play my snare ( a 6 1/2 x 14 supraphonic) without messing with the snare side head much the next day, the snare sounds OK, but not the way I like it. It's not until I crank the head down even more that it makes the drum "pop" and give it that nice response that is usually sought after in a snare sound. When I look at the bottom of the drum from a side view, the head is cranked down so far that the bottom rim is almost flush with the surface of the head. A long time ago when I first saw that, I was afraid that maybe I tightened it too far and that the head had stretched out, but it sounded really good and it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I've read of other pro drummers describing the same thing. Have any of you experienced this? If you can't get the "pop" from your snare and you are using a snare side Ambassador, it may be that the head needs to be tuned up higher. I know it does for me. Any thoughts...comments?

What kind of overtones are you getting....just curious?

Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.


I'm not sure exactly what you mean as far as overtones go, but I get a nice smooth tight sound with lots of body and pop. The snare feels great and is loud and powerful. Overtones, per se, are minimal, just a nice tone with a nice attack and snare response. I think alot of that has to do with the drum itself.
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean as far as overtones go, but I get a nice smooth tight sound with lots of body and pop. The snare feels great and is loud and powerful. Overtones, per se, are minimal, just a nice tone with a nice attack and snare response. I think alot of that has to do with the drum itself.

Are you getting some ring from the tuning?



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
 
Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.


Right now, I am playing an Evans PC reverse dot coated head on the batter side, Remo ambassador snare side head. Or I'll play a coated Ambassador or Emperor batter side. As I said in the post, the bottom head is cranked up very tight. The top head is moderately tight. I get some resonance (ring) from the drum yes, but it's not obnoxious. Most of the resonance comes from the type of batter head used and the drum itself. I don't really think that the tightness of the bottom head contributes to "ring" per se, but more of how the drum speaks or projects. As the bottom head is brought up in tension, the drum becomes more lively and "barks" more, if you know what I mean. Too tight and the drum becomes choked. I would say that the tighter bottom head reduces ring and overtones, if anything.

So to answer your question, I'm getting some resonance or ring, but it's minimal as I don't muffle my snare or toms live and rarely when recording, I have to have some resonance for the drum to cut and sound full, and no, I don't think it is coming from the tuning of the bottom head as much as other factors.

Nice videos on youtube and my space by the way! You sound good and come off very knowledgable :eek:)
 
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Re: Tuning the Ambassador snare side head.

Right now, I am playing an Evans PC reverse dot coated head on the batter side, Remo ambassador snare side head. Or I'll play a coated Ambassador or Emperor batter side. As I said in the post, the bottom head is cranked up very tight. The top head is moderately tight. I get some resonance (ring) from the drum yes, but it's not obnoxious. Most of the resonance comes from the type of batter head used and the drum itself. I don't really think that the tightness of the bottom head contributes to "ring" per se, but more of how the drum speaks or projects. As the bottom head is brought up in tension, the drum becomes more lively and "barks" more, if you know what I mean. Too tight and the drum becomes choked. I would say that the tighter bottom head reduces ring and overtones, if anything.

So to answer your question, I'm getting some resonance or ring, but it's minimal as I don't muffle my snare or toms live and rarely when recording, I have to have some resonance for the drum to cut and sound full, and no, I don't think it is coming from the tuning of the bottom head as much as other factors.

Nice videos on youtube and my space by the way! You sound good and come off very knowledgable :eek:)


Thanks for both, the info, and the kind comments! Also, remember - GO STEELERS!



Mike

http://www.mikemccraw.com
http://www.dominoretroplate.com

http://www.youtube.com/drummermikemccraw
http://www.myspace.com/drummermikemccraw
 
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