Trad grip

onedevilsst

Senior Member
Hi all,

so finally bit the bullet and made the trad grip my norm after two years fannying about with it and it works pretty well, power wise and sound wise, apart from the rack tom.

Does anyone have any tips for getting the power out of my left had onto the tom, have tried it low, angling it away, like the snare, but the hi hat gets in the way.

I reckon Iv narrowed it down to the distance it is away from me, or the hi-hat being in the way as the main problem, but just wondered if there was something I was missing....

Any thoughts?
 
Hi my man

Having played traditional grip all my career I know most of the mistakes. One thing I can recommend is place your small tom-tom further to your right if you are right handed (check out Clayton Cameron's drum set). For me his tom is too much to the right, but that's the idea. The other alternative, do a Mel Lewis don't hit it with your left hand (by the way I love Mel Lewis' playing).

Enjoy traditional grip with it's pluses and minuses. Hope this helps.

KInd regards

Paul
 
Ah, yeah, that's a good idea, the first one, like. I'd worry bout the second as I well overload my right arm. Am gonna move it to the right when I re set up.

Certainly loving the challenge it poses. U always tradd-ed, then?
 
Ah, yeah, that's a good idea, the first one, like. I'd worry bout the second as I well overload my right arm. Am gonna move it to the right when I re set up.

Certainly loving the challenge it poses. U always tradd-ed, then?

Played traditional grip all my life. Interesting to note though, Steve Gadd, wonderful trad player uses a fair bit of match grip now.

Regards Paul
 
Ah, yeah, that's a good idea, the first one, like. I'd worry bout the second as I well overload my right arm. Am gonna move it to the right when I re set up.

Certainly loving the challenge it poses. U always tradd-ed, then?
 
trad grip...not for everybody. cause it's not easy. and the example of gadd playing matched just shows there's applications for both. but the guys who say to only learn matched because trad is outdated only say it because they simply aren't executing trad correctly. end of story. the worst you could say is that trad is more difficult to master. end of discussion.

whew! sorry for getting that off my chest....having said that, i'm finding the thing with drum set application can only be mastered after really mastering trad on the pad...cause particularly with trad, drum heights are the most critical thing, and i don't even know what the drum heights need to be unless my grip is advanced enough to dictate exactly where it's gonna have maximum performance with minimum output.

and yes on the op, i've considered everything, even cutting a slice in my kick so i could get toms lower(which of course is just an illustration, not an actual option...or is it???)-see? there it goes again, my brain grinding on this problem! so you're not alone on this one!
 
trad grip...not for everybody. cause it's not easy. and the example of gadd playing matched just shows there's applications for both. but the guys who say to only learn matched because trad is outdated only say it because they simply aren't executing trad correctly. end of story. the worst you could say is that trad is more difficult to master. end of discussion.

Bam!!! You were also on board with limited healthy use of pillows and other soft surfaces for effective practice. Am I right?

And weren't you also for several years principal of the New York City Symphony?

Isn't it amazing how guys like this share near identical opinions while the true haters (not speculative disagreement folks but haters with all the excuses and cool forum catch phrases) are usually doing something other than drumming or doing a whole lot to convince you they're not?

whew! sorry for getting that off my chest....having said that, i'm finding the thing with drum set application can only be mastered after really mastering trad on the pad...cause particularly with trad, drum heights are the most critical thing, and i don't even know what the drum heights need to be unless my grip is advanced enough to dictate exactly where it's gonna have maximum performance with minimum output.
Great insight!
 
hey! i like that "bam!!!" it adds some punctuation. you're right matt, and i'm not picking a fight. in fact i barred myself from playing trad for two years just so i could "get a grip" on matched, and i continue to use matched all the time-so for me there is no argument, except havin fun throwing fake insults at each other. plus, a million matched guys can run circles around me to prove their point. so my point ends up being that for me, i can accomplish things with trad that i can't with matched...and also i'm determined to master the grip myself at a really high level so i can prove my original point that you commented on....so i'm only asking for everybody to live and let live baby!

thanks matt. your coolness is only slightly exceeded by your superhuman speed. it sounds like you may have a little post-traumatic stress disorder going on from defending your fort all these years from the trolls! please know you have some real fans out here too. i always enjoy reading your stuff and in fact i checked out a couple vids a while back and really enjoyed them. i'm sorry, on one of them, i was too enraptured by the woman singer and i forgot to notice if you were playing really well...

but what about a trad vs. matched thread(all in fun only) where you can't post unless you include a clip of yourself demonstrating your grip in action? put your money where your mouth is! and since i took a full left turn with the thread for a second, i want to re-focus on the op:

1devil-i can crack skulls with my trad left hit on a snare, with virtually no impact on my hand, but i couldn't get that same torque with the toms too high(or low), and the hi-hats were an issue also, but these things got worked out for me when i played live a lot...because they had to!...it was the best way to get the problem solved.
 
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Great insite about lowering the rack tom.
I found this out by accident a few years ago because I began playing kits with smaller bass drums and shallower rack toms.
I lowered and flattened my rack tom for the first time in years and I felt the diff right away.

I tilt my rack tom up a bit on the left side also.
This helps for a better left hand hit and it helps with Hi-Hat interference.
 
I actually can hardly play matched grip ever since I learned trad, it feels so weird that I just switch back to trad grip.
 
hey! i like that "bam!!!" it adds some punctuation. you're right matt, and i'm not picking a fight. in fact i barred myself from playing trad for two years just so i could "get a grip" on matched, and i continue to use matched all the time-so for me there is no argument, except havin fun throwing fake insults at each other. plus, a million matched guys can run circles around me to prove their point. so my point ends up being that for me, i can accomplish things with trad that i can't with matched...and also i'm determined to master the grip myself at a really high level so i can prove my original point that you commented on....so i'm only asking for everybody to live and let live baby!

thanks matt. your coolness is only slightly exceeded by your superhuman speed. it sounds like you may have a little post-traumatic stress disorder going on from defending your fort all these years from the trolls! please know you have some real fans out here too. i always enjoy reading your stuff and in fact i checked out a couple vids a while back and really enjoyed them. i'm sorry, on one of them, i was too enraptured by the woman singer and i forgot to notice if you were playing really well...

but what about a trad vs. matched thread(all in fun only) where you can't post unless you include a clip of yourself demonstrating your grip in action? put your money where your mouth is! and since i took a full left turn with the thread for a second, i want to re-focus on the op:

1devil-i can crack skulls with my trad left hit on a snare, with virtually no impact on my hand, but i couldn't get that same torque with the toms too high(or low), and the hi-hats were an issue also, but these things got worked out for me when i played live a lot...because they had to!...it was the best way to get the problem solved.

I think the bottom line is that both grips serve useful functions and while trad grip originated from an obsolete practice, its early 20th century practitioners developed nuances via its continued use that can absolutely be heard, especially in jazz. Unfortunately you have a disgruntled clique of computer warriors who can't hear that because they don't work hard enough, although their own perceptions of where they are won't let them come to grips with that. So they resort to calling the recognition of nuance a form of snobbery. They're also the same crowd who believe better or worse can't be measured in any manner whatsoever and that there are no actual facts...only opinions of exact equal value. What a joke. Mostly its tough to waltz around the fact that these guys have major issues with their abilities to create music 99.9% of the time. That's just not a coincidence and IMO is in the poorest interest of music.

No, the PTSD left a long time ago. Currently the mindset is fine and dramas are small. These days I'm only trying to deflate guys who come to the Internet preaching delusional mindsets, then get snitty when they're called on it. It's one thing to say something entirely wrong then accept the judgement gracefully. But guys who come to these places waving swords while babbling nonsense do no one any favors, themselves included.

So many here like to tell you that music is all about fun. Well, to a large extent I agree with that. But I think the greatest fun is when music is played at the highest level possible. You can't do this when you take shortcuts. And always having an excuse to not learn something is where it all starts.
 
I think the bottom line is that both grips serve useful functions and while trad grip originated from an obsolete practice, its early 20th century practitioners developed nuances via its continued use that can absolutely be heard, especially in jazz. Unfortunately you have a disgruntled clique of computer warriors who can't hear that because they don't work hard enough, although their own perceptions of where they are won't let them come to grips with that. So they resort to calling the recognition of nuance a form of snobbery. They're also the same crowd who believe better or worse can't be measured in any manner whatsoever and that there are no actual facts...only opinions of exact equal value. What a joke. Mostly its tough to waltz around the fact that these guys have major issues with their abilities to create music 99.9% of the time. That's just not a coincidence and IMO is in the poorest interest of music.

No, the PTSD left a long time ago. Currently the mindset is fine and dramas are small. These days I'm only trying to deflate guys who come to the Internet preaching delusional mindsets, then get snitty when they're called on it. It's one thing to say something entirely wrong then accept the judgement gracefully. But guys who come to these places waving swords while babbling nonsense do no one any favors, themselves included.

So many here like to tell you that music is all about fun. Well, to a large extent I agree with that. But I think the greatest fun is when music is played at the highest level possible. You can't do this when you take shortcuts. And always having an excuse to not learn something is where it all starts.

Yes Matt. Thank you for the post
 
The argument over Trad and Matched is endless.

I seldom hear trad players putting down matched players.
Most trad players openly admit that both grips have their uses.

It seems that it is a small number of dedicated Matched players are the ones that have the problem with trad grip.

Example, A young member recently started a thread and he asked the question
"Do I need to learn Traditional Grip?"

Trad players posted that trad isn't a "must have" but if you want to learn it it won't harm you in any way. They suggested that he try trad grip and he could always switch back at any time.
It wasn't long before a few matched players came in and they stated the usual argument about trad... Blah, Blah, Blah.

There is a clear prejudice by a small number of matched players that is directed against trad players.
 
As I stated before in a couple of other threads, I do play mainly matched grip. I can and do play traditional (for left hand sweeping, mainly), but I am not nearly as good with it as I am with matched. However, a former teacher of mine played traditional for six years, and then switched back, and said that in his opinion most of the advantages were for matched.
It is difficult to get over the fact that JoJo plays traditional, though, since he always strikes as someone who digs pretty deep into anything he goes through with, and he is one of the best hand technicians around in my opinion. People with also great hand technique such as Mangini or Derek Roddy choose to play matched on the other hand (get it - on the "other hand"?); so that says it all, I am not sure that an objective list of pros and cons can be created, and it's all about what works for you for the stuff you're playing at the moment.


Fox.
 
I totally agree Fox, There are positive merits to both stick holding styles.
 
There is a clear prejudice by a small number of matched players that is directed against trad players.
Bob I'm not sure its predjudice as much as a gimmick to level the playing field and hide a weakness. This it must be snobbery angle to cloak any and everything everything not understood or perfected is part of all that. What was especially unfortunate about the thread you mentioned was the marching band angle. The Op says I may be joining a marching band. Immediately a guy chimes in with I don't know anything about marching band but... then performs the usual trad grip hater dance. I'm thinking if this guy knows nothing of the marching band angle then why is he even there commenting?

I remember all this from the WFD days. A guy says to himself ...I can't do (fill in the blank) and because you can and endorse the benefits, that either makes you a poor musician or a snob, depending of course on the direction the discussion is taking at the time.

Seen it all before.
 
It is difficult to get over the fact that JoJo plays traditional, though, since he always strikes as someone who digs pretty deep into anything he goes through with, and he is one of the best hand technicians around in my opinion. Fox.

um....hello....nuff said.....i mean that fact exactly demonstrates my point! ....or as matt would say...."Bam!!!"

However, a former teacher of mine played traditional for six years, and then switched back, and said that in his opinion most of the advantages were for matched.

and of course my take on your teacher is he should have taken a tip from alcoholics anonymous: don't give up right before the miracle happens!...no that's just for fun- he's probly right...

Great insite about lowering the rack tom.
I found this out by accident a few years ago because I began playing kits with smaller bass drums and shallower rack toms.
I lowered and flattened my rack tom for the first time in years and I felt the diff right away.

I tilt my rack tom up a bit on the left side also.
This helps for a better left hand hit and it helps with Hi-Hat interference.

that's funny about the tilt thing bob!...and it doesn't happen by accident! well if you get lucky and it does, you know it was meant to happen....cause there's a tilt involved in mine too...
 
that's funny about the tilt thing bob!...and it doesn't happen by accident! well if you get lucky and it does, you know it was meant to happen....cause there's a tilt involved in mine too...
I started out playing that way and as I got bigger bass drum kits I moved away from it for many years.
I have gone back to kits that are like my first kit now and I can play better with the tom almost flat and tilted up on the left.
I also tilt my snare up on the left and down away from me slightly which also goes back to how I played many years ago when I had my first Slingerland kit from the 60s with a twenty inch bass drum.
I also play matched sometimes and I have to adjust the snare slightly for better play with that grip.
 
It is difficult to get over the fact that JoJo plays traditional, though, since he always strikes as someone who digs pretty deep into anything he goes through with, and he is one of the best hand technicians around in my opinion.Fox.

Here's the problem with this entire argument from you strickly drumset players. Your knowledge of players is way too small. JoJo is in no way one of the best technicians around. He was just the latest New player to put out a technique video. Before him there were only no name guys like Jim Chapin and Henry Adler who put out technique videos.

This trad vs. matched grip only happens in the drumset area. Other areas of percussion don't argue this. If you march snare you need traditional, if you're an orchestral player you play the grip that's comfortable for you. No one judges you or argues which grip is the best. As far as great technicians there are tons, Abel, Hannum, Hardimon, Deviney, Lamb, Wanamaker, Moore, Queen, Vinson. The list is endless.
 
I play matched grip, but play brushes traditional. I don't know why but it feels natural for me. My son plays drums as well and wants to be in the drum line when he gets into high school in 2 years. He is going to start lessons from a great teacher in my area to start learning traditional grip. Its the required grip for playing snare in the drum line. As far as the matched versus traditional grip argument goes, all I have to say is what ever works for you is the correct grip. I don't know why this is even an issue between us drummers. Its like arguing about what kind of underwear you should wear, who cares.
 
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