New Drumset in consideration, help needed

S

SickRick

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Guys,

everybody who knows me from DWF knows, that I almost never ever post in the Drumgear section. Well.... I guess I'll have to change that for now since I am looking for a new drumset.

Here is the story: I have a Yamaha Maple Custom 20, 10, 12, 14. I really like the Yamahas but everytime I am on stage, the kit feels too "small". Especially the Bassdrum and the floortom.

I know it has a lot to do with sizes, but I also lack some more attack from these drums. I've taken quite a few sets into consideration, but I need some opinions on these to help me decide.

Sonor Delites (I love these drums badly, soundwise they would be my first choice. The downside is that I believe they are about the most ugly drums that exist in this universe. I cannot even start to tell you how ugly I think these drums look... If Sonor had more appealing finishes I would never have started this thread).

Tama Starclassic Performer B/B EFX (I've tried these once and really liked them, also I think Tama builds very nice hardware and nice finishes. The downside of this kit is that it lacked a bit of body and warmth - but I've only tried it once with clear Ambassadors...).

Yamaha Anything Custom Absolute (probably Birch or Ooak since they probably have some more attack to them).

Pearl Reference (I've read good and bad things about these, so some more views would be nice).



Soooooo...... what do you guys think? Those of you who know my band also know, what I will use them for. I need something that can cut through brass, guitars, bass etc. but still has a lot of body and warmth to it. Also, I want a kit that is very versatile (high tuning range) and can be used for different styles, especially Latin, Funk and Jazz (with a smaller BD though). Would you go for a Delite even if you think it looks ugly or would you go with a kit that looks better.

BTW: I really don't want to give anybody a bad vibe about the look of Delites - I know many people who love how they look. It's really subjective. So if you like the look of these drums, don't be offended.


Sizes will be 22*20 (I need a lot of bada-boom, so the extra 2" are important), 10, 12, 14, 16. I haven't decided on the depth of the toms yet, any input on this would be nice.
 
Dude, you dont like the walnut root finish?. . it reminds me of chocolate milk. . . ha ha. . .
 
Just checked a yamaha tour custom in my shop today. Wow it sounds awesome for the price. Haven't suspected that.
 
Dude, you dont like the walnut root finish?. . it reminds me of chocolate milk. . . ha ha. . .

I think that's the only acceptable finish. :)

But I also don't like the hardware, lugs etc. - way too massive and old fashioned for my taste...

Also: The walnut doesn't really look too good under different stagelights imo (I used a Delite walnut root for some gigs - that's why I love the sound and feel of it. But it just doesn't match with many lightcolours.)
 
Sonor Delites (I love these drums badly, soundwise they would be my first choice. The downside is that I believe they are about the most ugly drums that exist in this universe. I cannot even start to tell you how ugly I think these drums look... If Sonor had more appealing finishes I would never have started this thread).

Really? All of the finishes? Have you considered re-wrapping them?

http://www.sonor.com/pbas/Sonor_FE/sonor/english/kategorie.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=854
 
Really? All of the finishes? Have you considered re-wrapping them?

http://www.sonor.com/pbas/Sonor_FE/sonor/english/kategorie.html?a-quicklink-n_katid=854

I'm not going to rewrap a brandnew drumset that didn't have any wrap in the first place. That would be a) expensive and b) might change the sound of the drums which is what I don't want.

Yes, I've checked all the finishes. I really like the sound of the Delite, so I tried to play as many of these as possible for the last year or two. But really man.... the look....

Like I said: Walnut Root looks somewhat ok, the rest of the finishes (which aren't too many btw) are not even remotely close to my taste.

The thing is: Delites are really expensive for my budget. My thought is, that if I spend such a lot of money, I do not only want my drums to sound great, but also to look great.
 
True they are damn pricey. Is there any particular finish you are looking at? Just inquiring on my end.
 
Not really, just something that strikes a chord (is that english??). Something that looks fresh and modern - I already own a 60s Sonor vintage kit as you can tell from my Avatar. If I buy a new kit, I want it to look new... you know: 2009 and not 1980.

Like I said: Its not only the finish, but also the hardware.

To refine my question a bit: Do you think I am too worried about the look of the drums? I am really not sure because on the one hand I think "sound is important" and on the other hand I think "I want a set that I look at and want to play it just because it looks great".

You know: If I look at the Sonor Walnut finish and just compare it to another walnut finish, like the Spaun Walnut Burl - I think that's a class-difference.
 
At least give the Reference series a try. I picked up a 4pc. on eBay (from a major dealer) about a month ago...for a steal...brand new with *lifetime* warranty.

Not only are they amazing to look at (I got the Granite Sparkle finish) but they sound wonderful. The kick...oh man...it kills. The toms are the best I've heard yet. The quality is 100%, all the way. I couldn't be happier.

However, I've never played an MCA/N or Sonor so I can't compare. I also tried a B/B kit at Guitar Center and thought it was "OK". I didn't think the drums sounded particularly warm, either.
 
I can understand where you're coming from, you've been playing for a while and you want a kit that not only sounds good, but will hold up, and look at the same time. Quite the conundrum, searching for that holy grail. I'm fairly new so I'll play absolute shit as long as I get a chance to play something (I'm sure you're the same as well).

On a slightly off topic note, have you ever seen Brann Dailor's kit from Mastodon? Black base with white polka dots and a picture of the late, great Randy Rhoads on the reso head of the bass drum. Hilarious, but from the interviews I've seen of them with his sense of humor, it's right up his alley.
 
That's one of them dilema's. Seriously, if you're gonna throw down the big bucks for the top shelf stuff, you ought to be able to stand looking at it.

I'm the same way with DW: everytime I feel myself being swept away by all their great stuff... those lugs just ruin the whole experience for me. I doubt I'll ever break down and buy a set of them. It's funny because I remember when they were all Camco's and dismissively thinking, "Pssh, they'll never get anywhere with those hideous lugs!"

Ditto for Sabian's logo. I can't tell you how many times I've not even listened to their cymbals because I haven't been able to get past it. Luckily, I'm over that now and can allow myself to try them out. I've even bought a couple (gasp!).
 
Haha... funny read.

Well - I make my living playing drums, so I could be called a pro-drummer. I spend an awful lot of time behind the set, so yes: The look is important to me.

Your example really shows, how subjective things are: I really like the DW lugs. For some reason, I think it looks cool (but only in the brushed version. Gold / Chrome / Black looks awfull imo). I cannot stand the Sabian Design also, but they do make fantastic cymbals. PLUS: The look of cymbals is not that important to me. So I do own pretty many Sabians and am really happy about them.
 
Hey Lutz.

If you realllllly are put off by the Delite finishes, I think the oak customs would be for you - they fit perfectly with what you're going for; lovely warm presence, but a lot more power with less effort. Here's Keith Carlock's testimonial:


Carlock has been playing a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute kit and recently got a set of Oak Customs as well. “I fell in love with them—I’m using them for the Steely Dan tour,” he says. “The oak is a harder wood than maple, and there’s so much more sound coming out. They have a nice warm tone like the maples, but with more power, projection, and bite. They really carry in louder live situations. You don’t feel like you have to bash your brains out just to hear it coming back.”


When I saw him with the Dan I believe he was playing a gorgeous sounding 10/12/14/16/20 setup.... although that might have been a 22" kick..... and then again.... those might have been PHX's..... lol.
 
Hey Lutz.

If you realllllly are put off by the Delite finishes, I think the oak customs would be for you - they fit perfectly with what you're going for; lovely warm presence, but a lot more power with less effort. Here's Keith Carlock's testimonial:


Carlock has been playing a Yamaha Maple Custom Absolute kit and recently got a set of Oak Customs as well. “I fell in love with them—I’m using them for the Steely Dan tour,” he says. “The oak is a harder wood than maple, and there’s so much more sound coming out. They have a nice warm tone like the maples, but with more power, projection, and bite. They really carry in louder live situations. You don’t feel like you have to bash your brains out just to hear it coming back.”


When I saw him with the Dan I believe he was playing a gorgeous sounding 10/12/14/16/20 setup.... although that might have been a 22" kick..... and then again.... those might have been PHX's..... lol.

Thanks man! I've heard very good things about these drums and know that Ralf Gustke loves them (one of the best german drummers - has a profile here, check him out). The good thing about the oak custom is that it's also affordable...

Reading Keiths Carlock's testimonial it sounds like this is exactly what I am looking for - let's hope this isn't pure advertisement.

Just talking about the sound and tuning range of the drums, I think it's really really really hard to find something that matches the Delite...
 
Yamaha Oaks are loud but very heavy if you are gigging a lot.
It's worth looking at a Starclassic Bubinga kit.


Yes, I play between 2-6 Gigs a month with 3 different bands, meaning that I have to set up my kit at least once every two weeks. That's another reason I don't really want to go with sonor - just too much heavy hardware to carry.

Just checked the oak customs online: problem seems to be that they only offer BDs that are 17" deep, which for me more than likely will not be enough.

I've never played a Bubinga kit (only the B/B). I suppose it's brighter than the B/B, is it? I'm a little scared that it won't deliver enough warmth, especially outdoors. On the other hand I do like the Tama hardware and their finishes. The B/B I tried out was much lighter to carry than my Maple Custom is right now. Also, it was really surprisingly easy to set the drums up the way I wanted them - much easier than with the Yamaha hardware solution that I own.

Howeve, the main concern with the Yamha Maple Custom that I own is this: it sounds really good in small rooms, but as soon as you take it on a open air stage, it's almost like the whole kit vanishes. I've tried tuning it at different batter-reso ratios and with many different heads (coated, clear, different layers... anything) - it's always the same thing on an open air stage.
I recall a gig three weeks ago, that was scary: I was playing the kit in rehearsal prior to the gig. It sounded fantastic. Then we took it out of the room and onstage (open air). I hit a few drums and the whole band was looking at me asking: "Is that the same kit? That's impossible!". The whole kit sounded absolutely terrible out there. I adjusted the tuning for what seems like an endless time without too much success (and I'm pretty good at tuning btw). The whole low-end of the kit was simply gone. Of course this shows the importance of room-accoustics once more (which seems to be at least equally important to the sound than the kit itself).

Maybe I just need to go with other drumsizes. 20*18 BD just sounds like a joke on a bigger stage.
 
Lutz, I'd go with the Oak Customs.

Someone made a point about them sounding big and punchy without losing warmth, and I totally agree.
I've heard Keith's playing up close in a room and sitting in a big theatre, and I'll have to say they are some of the best sounding drums I've heard in both situations. ( and I'm someone who believes there IS noting better sounding than Yamaha MCANS )

Another heavy gigging pro friend plays a 'big' Sonor Jungle that works great for him.. ( how about different hardware? )

Pearl References might be something you like, if I can guess at your taste in drum sound ( basis Dreadnut )

..but all in all.. the OCs make the most sense. Make sure you consider your sizes just the way you want em. The rest you can control with your head choices.

Let us know when you decide.

PS- check out the Oak Custom Revisited thread here:
http://www.drummerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53382

...
 
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Hey Aydee,

thanks for your answer. I would love to check out the Reference, but they are not available at my local store. I talked with the guys from the store about these drums and they told me they sold two Reference kits and both didn't sound too great (for the money they cost). One of the guys who bought one actually put his set on ebay three months after buying...

So I guess the Reference is out of the race - I simply don't want to rist ordering something that I don't know and cannot try out before.

I'll have a look at the Oak Custom, but the thing really is that the drumsizes are not my taste really (like I said, they are only available with 17" deep Bassdrums and I definetly want more than that because I love the low end).

Thing is: I could get brandnew Delites for 75% of the original price since Sonor is making a special offer for teachers. I will check out the silver sparkle finish of the delites in a few weeks. Silver sparkle works with all light-situations, which is cool. It's definetly not what I would prefer if I had the choice but the prize really makes me think.

The decision seems to come down to Oak Custom vs. Delite.

Starclassics are still in consideration, mainly because I really like the hardware and the finishes. I guess I'll take some more time to decide and really check out all the options I have before ordering.
 
Just wanted to let you know that I bought a Tama Starclassic B/B EFX today in a limited edition finish.

Sizes:

22*20 Bassdrum(a loooooot of bass :) )

10*7
12*8
14*14
16*16

13*5.5 Snaredrum

I'd say it's arguably one of the most beautiful drumsets in existance (no kidding, it looks absolutely stunning... maybe a bit on the show-off side, but hey: It belongs on stage, doesn't it?).

Soundwise what really stands out is the Bassdrum which just delivers a ton of low-end but still with lots of punch to it. Perfect for my needs. The toms sound very "woodish" - extremely direct, with a nice tone, not too much sustain and not too warm (I also still own the Maple Custom which sounds extremely warm and has a long sustain). You really feel how hard the bubinga wood is when you play the drums. The whole set sounds very controlled and clear. I'll see this weekend, how it will work with the band. It might be a bit too much for a rehearsal room but I bought it for the stage and that is where these drums belong.

I'm also quite impressed with how good cross-sticks sound on a 13" snare.

I'll take some pictures of the set soon and will post them in the my gear section or this thread. I'm sure you will all love it.

The reason why I went for these drums and not the Delites or the Oak Custom really was the look and the price... I got the kit for more than 1000 Euros less than the Delites would have cost me, PLUS: The BIG Bassdrum. The Oak Custom would have taken a long time to order and would also have been much more expensive (I would have gone for an Oak X which has the 22*20 BD and black nickle hardware - same as my new Starclassics).
Also: A good friend of mine just got Delites (sound amazing) which I could borrow for some recordings if I want to... really nice situation for me right now

:)

I should post some pics of all my gear now.... never did that so far, but I own a very beatiful Yamaha Maple Custom fusion kit and a 1969 vintage Sonor Teardrop jazz kit... two very nice drumsets also. What I needed was more punch, bigger BD, bigger floortom and more Badabum and I really got that today.

Really happy now. :)
 
A great buy Lutz. Pictures or it didn't happen, though!
 
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