How I play / How I sound

aydee

Platinum Member
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How different are the two?

How many times have I ( and many of us ) been shocked ( mostly negatively ) when I listen back to my recordings?

How many time have I've wished I could be in both places at the same time during a sound check. At my kit and at the board with the sound guy. ( No, another guy's playing my kit never cuts it ).

How many times when I thought I was playing with nice dynamics, I listen back to the recording, and the snare, the bass drum, and crashes jump out a mile high ( or totally disappear ) !

Now, after fighting it for years, I've learnt to love, respect & honor the click, but any advice on how to look at /approach dynamic playing?

I envy all the cats ( and they do exist in all genres of music ) who can go from whispers to thunder and back and it all sounds smooth & sweet.

How does one practice/ work on/improve dynamics?


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I believe you may have answered your own question. Recording yourself is probably the best way to see/hear how you sound on your kit.
I've thought more seriously about it lately myself because I recently had a similar experience as you at my church. I caught the last bit of a song we had done during practice being played back by our sound guy. Man, I thought I sounded HORRIBLE!! Just as you described...the dynamics, as I perceived them, were nothing like what I heard being played back. However, the sound guy assured me his playback was all compressed, mike levels were jacked up, etc. But I was still inspired to really improve my dynamics.
What I've come up with so far is trying to record myself (only audio so far) playing some old accent patterns from Syncopation or songs that I want to learn. Just as a metronome doesn't lie; neither does a recording (done properly). Great topic. Anyone else have any ideas?
 
As mentioned above, recording myself has often provided a cruel assesment of what's really happening. On the advice of a good friend and teacher of mine, I've started resisting the temptation to listen back immediately and tend to leave it a few days so I can come at it from a more open frame of mind. Immediate playback was leading to all kinds of negative reinforcement in my mind and ended up increasing the intensity of my inner critic while I was playing.

As for dynamics, it's an under-practiced element of music amongst drummers. I've been putting a lot of thought and effort into it lately. Largely, I'm trying to bring my overall playing volume down and increase my control of the balance of my various limbs depending on the instruments they're playing.

I have a couple of exercises I work on for this, including this exercise given by Max Roach (which can be found by scrolling to the bottom of the page): http://www.rhythmelodic.com/david_lessons.html.

Also, some time ago, I realised I was practicing at one dynamic and playing at another because of the intensity of the moment, the sound situation, etc. This leads to all kinds of execution troubles as I try to adjust on the fly and play things that were practiced more quietly at a different height/volume.

In response, I've been experimenting with practicing with dynamics in mind so that if I'm working on a groove or "the big fill", I'll practice it not only at various tempos, but at various dynamic levels and ensure that the tempo and my execution stay solid and precise throughout.
 
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Boomka, reading your post feels like I've written it. ( Once though.. you've done it twice ; )

Everything you've said is what I'm experiencing including the instant negative re-enforcement when I'm reacting very microscopically to what I've played. You're right. it sounds less awful if I happen to hear it after a few days.

I can play loud and soft, and do have the much- in-demand ability to practice and play at extremely low volumes, and perform without adrenalin taking over completely.

My trouble begins when I'm , for example phrasing a simple groove or a fill. Lets say I'm trying to play with the dynamics of the 8th notes of the hats against the bass drum or controlling the ghost notes on the snare, so that you are accenting the ones you want at the right volumes etc..all of it all sounds wonderful.. till I hear the playback.. and thats when I cringe, and quickly look around to see if others are cringing..

It doesn't sound quite like I what I intended. I'm making it sound worse than it is, but it is extremely frustrating and can shake up your self confidence somewhat.

Thanks, will chk out the Max thing.

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Again a thoughtful thread Aydee. I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and found that more and more as drummers have to develop our inner mixing desk to accommodate the acoustics of the room and the other players. When we hear our problems after we recorded them, it might not be what was happening in the room at the time of recording, as there are so many variables. How the bass sounds will influence how you play the cymbals etc. So when I listen back I get a feeling of what my head phone or room sound was at the time. Its important to not get too hard on ourselves because of the said variables. That said it is important to be critical of our performance to keep improving. I feel a good headphone/ monitor mix is vital. I have been working on dynamics in a different way recently. Instead of me going up and down' with all limbs with volume of the music, i have been practicing playing different limbs at different levels within the same groove. Try laying into the kick as hard as you can while riding the cymbals as quietly as possible at the same time. Switch it up..I am at the infant stage, so much work to do! The inner mixing desk at work. This raises the issue of mic'n techniques, closed or open, whether the drummer mixes with ears or does the soundman do it. I personally like overheads and a kick with maybe a snare. Bottom line is how we feel at the moment of recording. Ever seen Zakir Hussain at a sound check? Very demanding, but for a reason.
 
Again a thoughtful thread Aydee. I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and found that more and more as drummers have to develop our inner mixing desk to accommodate the acoustics of the room and the other players. When we hear our problems after we recorded them, it might not be what was happening in the room at the time of recording, as there are so many variables. How the bass sounds will influence how you play the cymbals etc. So when I listen back I get a feeling of what my head phone or room sound was at the time. Its important to not get too hard on ourselves because of the said variables. That said it is important to be critical of our performance to keep improving. I feel a good headphone/ monitor mix is vital. I have been working on dynamics in a different way recently. Instead of me going up and down' with all limbs with volume of the music, i have been practicing playing different limbs at different levels within the same groove. Try laying into the kick as hard as you can while riding the cymbals as quietly as possible at the same time. Switch it up..I am at the infant stage, so much work to do! The inner mixing desk at work. This raises the issue of mic'n techniques, closed or open, whether the drummer mixes with ears or does the soundman do it. I personally like overheads and a kick with maybe a snare. Bottom line is how we feel at the moment of recording. Ever seen Zakir Hussain at a sound check? Very demanding, but for a reason.

I thrilled you guys are empathizing and I'm not the only one with an 'issue' here.

Right on again about Zakir, yes.. I know the guy and he can be a right pain in the posterior with the sound guys. Always is, as a matter of fact. They all hate him with a passion. But understandable. The tablas got nuances that he is very particular about it, and his approach to the instrument is very non traditional at times, and the blokes on the console dont always get it.

But take anyone that sounds incredible any they've got that internal graphic equalization/ mixing board thing happening.. steve Jordan, Vinnie, Hoening, DeJohnette, Stewart, Blade.. these are guys I've heard unmiked their playing 'sounds' like its recorded!!!

I always have trouble with monitors ( 30% hearing in right ear,.. too many years next to too many Marshalls ), and haven't really tried the in ear phones yet..

I think its a sensitivity that needs development.
 
Yes I agree, the greats have the ability to do just that, and Jack is good example. I guess the issue is asking for what you need, and not sounding arrogant, at the same time not settling for second best. But that is a perfect world! Very cool you know Zakir, but not cool your ears are damaged. That could be the root of it there?
 
That could be the root of it there?

Perhaps so..guess I dont want to believe it : )... I would imagine my impairment would affect my hearing the same way while I'm playing or while I'm listening so shouldn't be any discrepancy there... guess I could be wrong..
 
Perhaps so..guess I dont want to believe it : )... I would imagine my impairment would affect my hearing the same way while I'm playing or while I'm listening so shouldn't be any discrepancy there... guess I could be wrong..
Yes sorry for that, it just sounded logical, but that said, you could learn how to adjust knowing the problem could be hearing loss? I know my hearing has been damaged over the years, and should go get tested.
 
Dynamics seperate the seasoned musicians from the rest. Sometimes listening on playback, the notes I chose to play for the fill didn't bother me, but I just played them too loud and killed the feel.

I don't like sticking out, and this is mainly what bothers me on playback. As a result of listening back, now when I play, I use way less fills, and when it comes time for the roll around the toms or the endings, I purposely hit lighter, and it blends in much better. Especially on endings, I used to stick out way too much, and I hate how that sounds, ameteurish. Not being aware of how I'm coming off.

I believe the fast track way to improve dynamics, and everything else for that matter, is to record and listen, every gig, every time. I shudder to think what I would sound like if I didn't.

(Physically shuddering......uhhhhhhh)

Also during actual play, I try to pretend I'm floating above the room, listening to the entire net effect of everything, and how I'm helping things or hurting things, and adjust accordingly.

We all need to develop "Big Ears". Being an aware, in tune with everyone else, listening drummer is one of my goals.
 
Great post Abe...it's great that you're so honest with yourself, particularly for having been playing for so long.

I like to record every practice (with the band or alone) and dynamics is one of those things that sticks out for me...even though I have it drilled into my head at every drum lesson.

One good, simple practice my teacher reiterates is; play as softly as possible when practicing alone. If you play as lightly as you possibly can, you'll develop a much broader dynamic range since it is much easier to play loud than it is to control the sticks (and your rudiments/patterns) while playing very softly.

It's easy for me to forget...being such a greenhorn. Lately, I just make a conscious effort to play softly more than anything else. It makes an immediate impact after not doing so for a while.
 
Great post Abe...it's great that you're so honest with yourself, particularly for having been playing for so long.

I like to record every practice (with the band or alone) and dynamics is one of those things that sticks out for me...even though I have it drilled into my head at every drum lesson.

One good, simple practice my teacher reiterates is; play as softly as possible when practicing alone. If you play as lightly as you possibly can, you'll develop a much broader dynamic range since it is much easier to play loud than it is to control the sticks (and your rudiments/patterns) while playing very softly.

It's easy for me to forget...being such a greenhorn. Lately, I just make a conscious effort to play softly more than anything else. It makes an immediate impact after not doing so for a while.

You're no greenhorn.
I know you've been recording yourself regularly Vin, and thats probably the best overall feedback one can possibly get.. and it shows too!

You know some times I really think the only difference between 8 bars of drums and 8 bars of genius is dynamics!..I mean everyone can do triplets and everyone can play more or less in time...

I dont know, maybe I've been playing too much lately & looping out...
 
You know some times I really think the only difference between 8 bars of drums and 8 bars of genius is dynamics!..

Now there's a quote. If someone said Max Roach said that, who'd know?
 
Thanks a lot for that Max idea Boomka, that looks awesome.

Very thought provoking thread. I sure most of you are far more experienced than myself, so it really is not the greatest thing to hear that at this level you are still wincing at your recordings...

Anyway I have two things to say; It's all too easy to become obsessed by this sort of thing, but just take it easy. Set realistic small goals, take them one at a time. The pursuance of perfection will never yield a result. Perfection simply does not exist - and that's coming from an obsessive perfectionist. As your playing develops, of COURSE your ears will develop along the way, and you will repeatedly find yourself in the same overall situation, albeit at a more advanced level level. I'll bet any money if you ask any of the legends with their incredible internalized perfect mixes, they will have a huge number of tiny little things that could have been just that much better in their performances that blow us all away; things so deep in their playing that only they notice it. But hey, what do I know.

Anyway, when I saw this thread, it made me think of this great clinic footage of JM from way back when. It actually forces dynamics into your playing - when you're stripped of blazing chops, and your spicy nuances, and limited to just 8th notes, the focus completely flips, It's a completely different way of playing... to me anyway. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKcd_CI9hz0&feature=related
 
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