Bringing the Dynamics Right Down in Latin-Jazz Tunes for Solos

Caz

Senior Member
Hi all. I have a bit of a specific question to anyone who plays latin tunes in a jazz context... songs like Caravan, Night in Tunisia, Manteca etc. It seems everyone has their patterns for these tunes - mambo, cascara, mozambique etc or some variations of these. I read about/figured out a few of these and practiced them, now that it's a couple of years later I've been ok improvising over them at gigs or jam sessions when latin tunes are called. However one sore spot is whenever the volume has to go right down, particularly on a bass solo (or even piano solo). Unless it's quite a fusion'y feel, for a bass solo it seems natural for the volume of the drums to come right down as low as possible. I often go down in volume and do some kind of songo variation (with right hand on the floor tom, floor tom rim or snare rim etc).. it's a habbit I just seem to have fallen into, not for any particular reason.

First of all, it's hard to keep the tempo from slowing down.. but that's not the end of the world, I could just practice it with a click and get used to it. The problem is I'm not really happy with what I default to playing. The hi hat change from normally being on 2&4 for the majority of the tune to 1&3 for a songo feel is quite uncomfortable for the music, and can confuse other players. But most importantly it's very hard not to play songo, or cascara of these latin rhythms without it feeling too busy for under a bass solo. Can I ask some of the players here how you approach these situations going from a busy latin tune into a lower volume and more spacious feel behind a bass solo without losing energy? Are there any specific patterns that you practice? Or are there any examples you can think of on CDs where drummers do this transition really well?

As always, many thanks :)

Caroline
 
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Hi Caz. I play simpler genres than you do but since no one else has answered ...

I also have trouble retaining energy when there's a bass solo. I think my issue is that I spend all song locked in with the bassist (hopefully) and then suddenly he deserts me and I don't adjust quickly enough.

No idea if this is useful but in the past I've seen a few drummers play mostly hats and bass drum during a bass solo in Latin jazz tunes. That way they can play with the same verve as before but with less clutter than if they played on louder elements of the kit.

Hope someone who actually has a clue responds :)
 
I do what Polly suggested, I move to the closed hats and I feather my bass drum to keep the tempo moving.
I sometimes tap lightly on the wooden hoop of my snare.
You could also cup your cowbell and play that along with the bass drum.
 
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This may go without saying, but in addition to playing on the closed hihat the other big thing to do would be to switch to brushes. When I am using brushes in this context I like to use a steady stream of sixteenth notes on the snare drum with accents. It is a great sound and very effective for keeping the energy up and the dynamics down.
 
You can get away with a lot of dynamics in latin tunes by dropping the bass altogether and just playing cascara/palitos on a rim while holding clave with a cross-stick. It's a really simple pattern which is generic enough to fit with almost any traditional son/salsa/timba progression. It might feel odd to drop everything with your feet, but it really removes a lot of volume and creates a lot of room, while allowing you to keep the tempo at a proper clip.
 
You can get away with a lot of dynamics in latin tunes by dropping the bass altogether and just playing cascara/palitos on a rim while holding clave with a cross-stick. It's a really simple pattern which is generic enough to fit with almost any traditional son/salsa/timba progression. It might feel odd to drop everything with your feet, but it really removes a lot of volume and creates a lot of room, while allowing you to keep the tempo at a proper clip.

+1! And you can still keep 2 and 4 with your left foot, if you need to more obviously state the time to the band. I don't think it's wise to shift that limb to 1 and 3, just as your bass player is going to take a solo. He's all set to phrase within the mood of the piece, and then you pull a "feel" switch like that? Not good. Btw, no rule against playing 2 and 4 with the left foot while playing songo. (I prefer to play it this way when the tempo is not terribly fast).

It's not "too busy" to play the rhythms you mention under a bass solo, IMO, but maybe you just need to redefine their execution. Songo is usually reserved for more agressive tunes with concern for speed and fluidity. Most of the time, it's just too fast to softly play any Salsa rhythms, and the samba bass drum pattern won't complement the bass line's syncopation. During a bass solo, it would be fine to just play the hands part on the rim and cross-stick, and minimize the bass drum's role. No rule against playing 16ths on the hi-hats, either, to emulate a shaker.

We're usually taught to play cascara with one hand (as a percussionist would), but if, in the heat of battle, it's quieter/easier to play it with two hands on the hi-hat or rim, and it sounds good to fill in some or all of the spaces, then, by all means, go for it!
 
I always take my right hand to the rack tom hoop ....or the shell of the floor tom.... play cross stick on the left.......and sometimes drop the kick all together and replace its pattern with a similar version of that pattern on the toms with my left hand between cross sticks

seems to work for me.....

but a lot of times ill leave the kick and just heel down feather the pattern

this works great for any songo, cascara, afro 6/8, mambo, samba, mozambique or anything of that vein
 
This is simple sit down with the bassists and ask him what he'd like going on while he solos. I would not be playing notes on a fl. tm. on top or underneath of what hes playing, you can't be steppin on each other even if your dynamic eliminates volumn. Talk! Doc
 
I do most of the things mentioned, but not specifically any one or two things on any one song...just whatever I feel for the night or the mood.

One more suggestion, which hasn't been mentioned, is if you have brushes with the metal ring on the butt end, you can play THAT on rims, stands, high hats, cymbals for a different sound as well. Also, swishing the brush back and forth on the snare in an eighth note rhythm, accenting the swish on the clave or a partido alto pattern could work for those tunes as well.

But, yeah, I second the sentiment that playing a cascara with a clave works for just about any latin tune for a "pattern" to play under the bass solo. It's a default thing to go to, especially when subbing in with a group you don't normally play with--everyone seems to be comfortable with it. I don't get too concerned with doing the same thing over and over again--if it sounds good and feels good, I enjoy playing it. Besides, chances are most of your audience is new to your group, so it won't seem like, "Aw...the drummer played that pattern under the bass solo of that same song the last time we saw them play..."
 
Hey Caz,

Sorry I didn't see that you had asked me a question earlier. In terms of what I do with the bass drum when I am playing brushes behind a bass solo, I left that deliberately vague because it is really subjective to the particular tune. I think the possibilities that you mentioned are all great.

I also love the idea of drumming with the hands and have been messing with that myself recently!
 
Agreed that the cascara/cross-stick thing, in this context, would be generic, and yes, restrictive, especially at fast tempos! There's just too many beats to play: 5 cross-sticks, and 4 bass drum notes for every 2 bars, plus the cascara itself. There's no room left for improvisation or interaction.

In that clip of Spain (which is more samba than cascara, IMO), during the bass solo, Weckl takes it down a notch by placing the bass drum primarily on beat 3 (along with a hi-hat splash), with some embellishments thrown in, and does not play any sort of repeating clave rhythm. Rather, he emphasizes the upbeats with the hands in a Latin-ish way. Sure, there are some bits that resemble a cascara, but they are brief and part of his improvisation. You could definitely do something like this with one or both hands on the hi-hat, bass on beat 3. Keeping the bass drum in the same spot with help to anchor the soloist, too. You don't have to worry about stepping on the bassist's territory; if your bass drum pattern is predictable and leaves some space, he won't mind.
 
I agree with those who say don't change the groove. Continue the feel, but bring it in - on the closed hi hat, tom hoops or with your hands (what a good idea!).

The other thing you could try is continue a busy groove to keep the energy up, but play all of the notes only in the last bar of each four-bar phrase; in other words, leave notes out and make it sparse - just imply the groove - in the middle of the phrase.
 
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