Talking to the doctors now....

M

Matt Bo Eder

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I've brought this up to my doctors now and we're working on stuff. Not sure if this is just associated with getting older, but on my last examination I told him about this fatigue sorta setting in, and how my back (and other parts) get thrown out of whack whenever I'm lifting heavy things, or over-extending - things that never bothered me in my younger days. Last time I moved the kit around I was being very careful not to twist certain ways on the car loading, or trying to lift too much at one time, yet still my chiropractor (the other doctor) discovered I was way off from where I was the week before.

The medical doc asked me how much stuff I normally move around when I move the drums and I gave him the run-down on some of the weight - he was especially concerned with an over-loaded trap case, but at the same time he was concerned that size could be an issue as well as the weight. Causing me to twist certain ways to move it.

He's doing some blood tests to see that there isn't anything wrong internally going on (but we don't know that yet). And he did ask if there was any way to lighten the load anyway, just to make things easier.

I said I'd look into it, and I know I can lighten up on my hardware choices, but I'm not sure I'm going for the "smaller drum" idea. And I know there are many people here on this forum much older than me, who can haul their own stuff without a problem, so I can only conclude there's something wrong at this time. But do you guys in your 50s find you're twisting backs and joints around more in this decade of age? Are you guys feeling this fatigue, even when you're not moving drums, but in doing anything else?

Naturally, I wouldn't post here, but I wanted to throw out the question since my doc actually asked what it was that I was doing that could be responsible for the general aches and pains from lifting heavy things. I'm not alarmed yet, but historically, my doctor doesn't normally ask questions like that, unless he felt something was wrong and needed a change. Thoughts?
 
A little over 2 years ago, I also made a change from a heavy trap case (containing all cymbals, all stands, pedal, seat, sticks, etc) to cymbal bag, stand bag, small tom bag for the pedal and seat... and a cart!

Saved my back, and made load-in/out truly one trip each way. The cart is much more stable and rolls better than the trapcase w/wheels, and it can be used for other moving chores as well. :)

Bermuda
 
Well Bo, I'm 52 and I'm moving my kit twice a week. The biggest pain (no pun intended) is loading my hardware into the back of my truck. I'm only moving it about 40 - 50 feet, but it puts wear and tear on my shoulder(s). Right now I'm dealing with tennis elbow in my right elbow and that doesn't help matters much.

I've had herniated disk problems for about 15 years, so I'm always careful how I lift things - use you legs, not you back! I can throw my back out by simply bending over to tie my shoe.

I hope you get only positive news (I guess good news in the world of medicine is negative, though) regarding any issues. I would hate for you to have to sell me your Ludwigs. ;-)
 
Yes Yes Yes ! Lighten your load.

About one year ago I had all of my hardware in one case. Way way too heavy. I had back pain all the time.
I finally broke up the hardware into three bags. Much much better. No more back pain.

It only added a couple of extra trips from the truck to the stage.
So now I have to arrive at the gig a few minutes earlier; no big deal.

Do it !


(Every time I load in and load out I think, "Darn I should have learned how to play the saxophone!")


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Thanks for the replies - yes - lightening the load is prudent, but even then I already split my hardware between a bag and a rolling trap case. The general fatigue that sets in on a daily basis when I'm not playing or moving drums is probably what most concerns me, on top of messing things up when I do move things.

I have a gig this weekend and will be bringing out the blue sparkles and my light Yamaha 600 hardware, and I'll see how that goes. As time progresses, I wonder if this will affect my playing too. It's frightening to be told I'm not playing loud enough ;)

And I'm not even dealing with gigs where I'd be hauling the PA as well - that hasn't come up yet.
 
I'm still in my 40s but I'm definitely experiencing more aches and pains. My left knee has a hole in the cartilage that makes it painful to go down steps, not good when you're loading in and out carrying heavy gear up and down risers, stages and such.

In terms of playing, I do feel the wear and tear on my body more than I used to. In my early 20s, I had some CTS symptoms that I was able to eliminate by improving my technique. But after hitting really hard for four or five hours on consecutive days, I feel general aches and pains for a day or two. So I think some of it is age and some of it is the fact I hit much harder than I used to (which I enjoy, to be honest).
 
Matt: I hope you feel better soon. Sounds a little scary.

Playing the drums takes a higher level of physical exertion than most other musical instruments.


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As I've gotten older I've found the body just needs more preventative maintenance. Do you exercise? Lift weights? Do cardio? How is your diet? I need to do those things and watch what I eat just to keep myself tuned up, and I NEVER needed to when I was younger. My normal level of activity was plenty.

Hope you get some answers and start feeling better.
 
I'd recommend looking into Alexander Technique. The type of stuff I do (Andover) comes from it, as does Feldenkrais. Andover is specifically for musicians, and has the idea that when you learn about how you are built, you move better. FYI, John dewey, founder of American education, pushed to get Alexander Technique included in the basic American curriculum.

Alexander Technique is a hot research topic, and there are several very large studies underway currently: One recent one with thousands of subjects and multiple doctors in multiple cities published in the British Medical Journal showed that 10 Alexander lessons had the same results in the short term as physical therapy or massage for low back pain, but unlike the other two the results never diminished: the pain permanently reduced and people said it "was just common sense".


I can recommend some great Andover educators for you if you like, although there almost certainly nobody specializing in drum set - as far as I can tell, there are only 2 in the world as they really specialize in orchestral instruments. I would also suggest you look into maybe getting a different chiropractor. Some are MUCH better than others, and you'll probably be able to find someone who knows about drumming. (You also might take a look at my book: Anatomy of Drumming :)

Lightening the load is definitely prudent as well: sudden movements can easily cause damage. If you are careful and ease into it you can generally handle bigger loads safely, though.
 
(Every time I load in and load out I think, "Darn I should have learned how to play the saxophone!")


As an example this isn't healthy thinking, what starts the healing process is thought, thinking about your posture, health etc. the rest is automatic.





Sometimes when ppl se 'me' setting up they make a comment like "Don't you wish you played the saxophone, or harmonica?" Then I look at them, theses are usually the types that huff and puff moving a 1x12 bass cab and an amp, or the like, something not close in number of pieces to a drum kit, or a generally lazy, out of shape person per say.


When its a chore lifting my hardware bag out the car, my thought response is that I need to get in better shape, its only 60 lbs.

If moving you gear is a chore you have 3 options, less/lighter gear, get in better shape, or get someone to do it for you. The middle one pays the most dividends.
 
Unless the doc finds something deeper you are most likely just feeling the effects of aging. In order to maintain youthful levels of strength and vigor you must exercise.

Both strength building and movement drills.

I'm 48, same age group as you. I used to be able to drink all night, wake up early and play 220 BPM double bass no sweat. Now, I need to take care of myself to make it happen.

What I find is that the gains from exercise fade faster as I age. This means more consistent routines are required, with a cleaner lifestyle.

The fact is that the receptors for pain get "turned off" during movement. The answer is movement.

Check out Becoming a supple leopard by Kelly Starrett. Or the work of Pavel Tsatsouline.
 
I so relate to this discussion. I'm also feeling tired all the time, same age (around 50) as you guys. Just the other day our guitarist said 'Is it just me, or does everyone feel tired all the time?' We all agreed that we all did.
I too saw the doctor recently about tiredness, and they've taken some blood samples to look for various diseases and causes. Getting results in a few days.

There's some good advice about exercise and healthy living in the responses so far. I've certainly improved my diet this year, but perhaps some regular, controlled exercise is a good idea too. For gigs I've just bought a hardware caddy, split into smaller loads, and take the 18" kit to gigs whenever possible, even though it doesn't sound as deep and strong as the bigger kit.

I realise none of this helps your situation much, but you are definitely not alone.
 
Bo-
Couple of quick ?s- Does your throne have a back on it? And does your hardware bag have wheels? Those have helped me, though at 63, I am constantly plagued by "nagging injuries" which come up from time to time. During our last gig for example, I had a pulled left deltoid from weight training, which had to be sports taped and which kept me from getting around the kit as fast as I normally do. Had to lower everything, though they aren't that high to begin with. No sense in having cymbals higher than one's shoulders. Got through it, though in reviewing some video which we had shot of us that day, I appear to be a little stiffer w/my left hand and arm. Can't complain, as I had seriously thought beforehand that I wasn't going to be able to play. Gonna get together soon with a sports chiropractor and try and develop a good training regimen to avoid some of these. Good Luck.
 
If you go to a cart, I recommend fat pneumatic tires over casters or solid rubber wheels. That gives it an all terrain feature that will help navigate most any surface, even sand.

By fat I mean similar to those tires you find on dolly's, pressure washers, garden trolleys etc... with inflatable tires
 
Best way to combat this is to work out and eat more raw food. You guys in your 40's who are complaining, I have no sympathy for, sorry. Man up.
 
Heavy lifting of drum equip aside, do you exercise regularly? Having a strong core and back is really important not just for daily living, but especially when it comes to lifting and moving stuff. If your core is weak or your muscle strength isn't balanced it puts a lot of strain on your body all around. Even when you're not lifting stuff the rest of your body might be expending more energy than you think in an effort to keep things working.

About 20 years ago I broke my back in a mountain bike accident. Once I healed up I neglected to strengthen my body the way I should've been doing all along. I suffered from pain and fatigue for a long time as a result. A few years ago I started doing yoga and some light to moderate cardio and it made a huge difference in how I feel.

I'm 42 and I'm in better shape than I was at 25. I'm not ripped or anything like that, but I'm more balanced and haven't had any significant back issues in years. I'm also not fatigued like I was before.

Even if the doctor doesn't find anything wrong, I'd recommend looking at the basics...

1. How are you eating?
2. How are you sleeping?
3. Are you getting exercise?

Keep us posted!
 
Matt I am in my fifties but I also have a form of Rheumatoid Arthritis that causes general fatigue. there a a lot of ailments.diseases that can cause fatigue so its good that you are getting with a Dr.

I just bought a new set to reduce the weight I have to lift. I also like the idea of two hardware bags since that is by far the heaviest thing I hall. But other things can cause issues to, such as leaning over AT ALL when lifting, such as to put a mounted tom on its mount.

I have had back surgery and more rounds of physical therapy than I can count. Everyone knows about lifting with your legs, but there is a more important bit of advice regarding lifting.

Tighten your abs before you lift anything! Think of standing and holding a ladder. If it started to fall away from you how hard would it be to hold it? But if it fell towards you it is much easier. Your ab muscles represent you in front of the ladder. Much much less stress on the back.

Also, as we get older recovery from simple things take longer too.

Hoping for good news from the doc.
 
Thanks for all the advice, and yes, we've determined an exercise regimen and good eating is the way to go. For over 25 years I've always used a cart to move my stuff around as well (yes, with the big pneumatic tires too). I'm assuming as well this is all due to regular aging, but my doctor will let me know if there's anything specific going on soon enough.

I saw a sign on the road the other day, something about "youth being wasted on the young" ;)
 
Fixed.

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I work out and eat more raw food and have no issues. Whether or not there is a causal relationship between my approach and my results—or whether my choices will help you with your issues, which may be the result of factors I'm not familiar with—I'm not qualified to say. Other than reading a few books, I don't understand the underlying science or how to analyze empirical data from legitimate studies well enough to present more than anecdotal evidence.
 
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