Looking for some kind of visual metronome slave unit

jedijunk

Junior Member
Hi all... first post here. Seemed like this would be the place to find someone who might be able to point me in the right direction!

I'm looking for some kind of simple LED unit that accepts an audio metronome signal from a metronome, detects the beat, and flashes the LED to match. I'm picturing running a standard 1/8" stereo audio cable from the headphone jack on my Boss DB-90 to a matching 1/8" input jack on this slave unit which would be placed to be visible to everyone on stage.

The reason, as you can probably guess, is that the musicians in our band are on in-ears but the singers are not. A visual flashing metronome that is visible to the whole stage but controllable from the drum cage would give the singers another reference point to keep them on beat.

Any thoughts? I've found some LED controllers for LED strip lights that accept an audio input (like this one on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C17KWZ8...UTF8&colid=G4ZOCXUX3FCR&coliid=I3VK2UILH1HVDT) , but they're designed for club music and it's uncertain whether they would work for the fast/short pulses of a metronome.
 
In theory, it sounds like a sensible idea. But with vocalists, who tend to slide a little in terms of timekeeping - and that's fine... - introducing a visual reference while they're singing and following the band, is a recipe for disaster. They'll be so occupied with watching the flash, it will disrupt how they perform. Now, if you could get them to go in-ear, that would probably solve whatever problems exist.

It's much easier to hear a tempo than to see it, the exception being a conductor or metronome's baton, where you can see the beat coming, and exactly where it lands. Compare that to waiting for a light to flash, and not really knowing where it's at until it does. Very distracting and occupying, when music/vocals should simply flow.

Bermuda
 
It's much easier to hear a tempo than to see it, the exception being a conductor or metronome's baton, where you can see the beat coming, and exactly where it lands. Compare that to waiting for a light to flash, and not really knowing where it's at until it does. Very distracting and occupying, when music/vocals should simply flow.

Bermuda

Exactly my experience with metronomes with LEDs, which leads me to agree that you will probably be creating a train wreck. Even when using the audio output of my Yamaha Clickstation, I have to use the subdivisions to keep me on track. The LED visual cue is useless. I concur with John that you need to go in another direction.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Thanks to both of you for your replies... clearly some experience speaking there! :)

So here's my issue. Our vocalists don't want to go in-ear because they really feed off the live energy of the crowd (and I get that because I miss that now that I'm on IEM's). And right now we don't really have the money to get the wireless equipment we'd need for them anyway (the musicians are all using the Behringer P16 wired IEM system).

But we're doing live recordings with studio overdubs afterward, so it's essential that we all stick to the click to prevent insanity in the studio later. And some of our music breaks down to keys/pads only with no other rhythm. Those are the sections where the vocalists are getting off from the click.

If it isn't too expensive, I'd like to give the visual metronome a try anyway. But assuming you're right that it won't solve the problem, is there another inexpensive way to do it? Putting click in the vocalists wedges isn't an option...

Thanks for sharing your experience!
 
Is it essential that the band/you be on a click? If there's a track, it's obviously necessary, but is the click being used just to regulate the tempo? That's primarily your job, and in sections where there are just keys and vocals, it just has to flow. maybe some of the players/singers need a little tempo training.

Tempos don't have to be perfect, except where the music dictates that (EDM, etc.) Sometimes attempting to correct the tempo creates a more obvious feel problem than just going natural.

Bermuda
 
But we're doing live recordings with studio overdubs afterward, so it's essential that we all stick to the click to prevent insanity in the studio later. And some of our music breaks down to keys/pads only with no other rhythm. Those are the sections where the vocalists are getting off from the click.


Thanks for sharing your experience!


'Studio overdubs' would surely include the vocal tracks right? Let them do the final vocal track in the studio.

Its either/or. Energy from the crowd, they need to get their part(s)/timing right. In the studio give them some crowd noise in the mix if its that big a deal.
 
You can try out SongPartTrackingMetronome: SongPartTrackingMetronome
All you need is a computer screen that is visible by the band somewhere. We put our drummer on headphones connected to the program during rehearsal and live performance. The drummer can here the metronome and the rest of the band can see it. Since the drummer hears it, the entire band is on click, and if not they can quickly glance at the screen. It also helps in arranging songs in general.

"SongPartTrackingMetronome is a simple programmable visual and acoustic metronome with bar-based song part tracking capabilities that guide the user through a song."
 
I'm confused. I thought us drummers are the click and everyone follows us. If the drummer can be heard, there shouldnt be any issues.

I know this thread is old, but this sort of thing irks me. If the singer* cant hear, fine. If the singers IEM dies and he/she is 100' from the stage, fine. If the singer is getting lost in the crowd energy, not fine. They need to pay attention and remember why they are there. If the singer has bad timing, not fine. This can be corrected over time with metronome practice.

*this is not singers only. One can, and should, also insert any other member(s) of the band here and fix accordingly. Drummers are not exempt either. If you (we) are the click, but cant follow one, that is problematic also.

BTW I dont think putting a flashing light in someone's face for tempo correction is going to work if they cant follow the drummer.
 
I posted to this old thread because this is a problem in many bands, and it comes up again and again! Which bugs me, too.

Band members should definitely listen to the drummer primarily (and it would be good if that's all they need)! But it can help also, if they have something else like seeing the click. Also imagine extended parts of the song, where there are no drums playing at all.

On the whole the drummer definitely has to be on the click of the song, if you wanna use the recording later on in editing or for live recordings. This is why we put him/her on the click track of the program and everyone else plays according to the drums, so indirectly to the click the drummer hears. Everyone else can glace at the screen, if there's room for it, just in order to back check and for a safer feeling that the drums are "correct".

You can't play against the drums but you can, at least I found that, get a confident feeling that the drummer does his/her work properly, which helps in the greater context of playing together neatly and tightly.
 
you can, at least I found that, get a confident feeling that the drummer does his/her work properly
Are you not a drummer?

If the drummer and the light are in sync, and someone isnt following the drummer, then they arent following the light either. Instead of just listening, they now must process (re think about) where the light is in regards to their playing. Am I ahead or behind? What note does the light fall on? The light is flashing faster/slower than i can follow. This is too much thinking. More practice and listening will fix this.
 
I'm the drummer, but I'm speaking for the other band members, they need to know where they are and I need to know that too (at least for new material). That's the cool thing about the prog, you can program songs in it It'll show you where exactly you are in the song/song part, which bar you're at, how many bars you have still to go etc., no thinking involved for the band guys, just have to followe the countdown! Didn't believe it but this shit works. Arranging and especially playing through brand new material is super smooth now. But I agree that just a simple flashing metro thingy somewhere isn't helping at all, then people have to think too much and lose the feel, we've tried that too and it didn't work.
 
It can help, especially getting into weird counts and poly rhythms. E.G I've been working on a beat at present that is playing 1, 3, 5, 7 out of a count of 11 (played as a 32nd note hendecupelet within a 4/4 beat at 100bpm)
Making it not sound like a triplet XxxX--XxxX-- and nor a 6/8 X-x-x-x----- is tough, it's kinda 4 notes out of 5.5 and practicing this, I do find an LED or visual display helps. Mostly to ratify the click from a different sense as my ears are focused on the four even kicks and then lop-sided cymbals
Similarly, if my guitarist and I are playing rhythms counter to each other visual displays help him...although he does seem quite good at ignoring me! :ROFLMAO:

Anyway, long story short, theres a time and a place I think visual clicks help, but I can't help recommend one, I just either use polynome on the ipad and can see it clearly, or I'm running through my MPC which has a flashing tempo button....
 
from my experience...0% of singers would be into following a light led tempo system...

instead, during practice time, we often times would have the singer just sing the words with me drumming...no other instruments playing. That way, they could concentrate on the rhythmic cadence of the words, and especially how it fit on top of the 2 and 4 of the snare.

Often, we would rep "Verse 1" of song X with melodic instruments in, and then do it again immediately with melodic instruments out. We would "loop" this until it got better. This seemed to help for some singers. Another thing I would do with our singers would be to just speak the words in cadence with them - like rapping - to help them understand how the cadence worked versus t he beat.

Now, I have been lucky to work with singers who are not so big headed, or distracted, and they wanted it to be solid. I have also been in some band situations - but not for very long - where the singer didn't care, and would just be fine with it being off. When that happens - and they refuse to work on it - I just take myself out of the situation.
 
from my experience...0% of singers would be into following a light led tempo system...

instead, during practice time, we often times would have the singer just sing the words with me drumming...no other instruments playing. That way, they could concentrate on the rhythmic cadence of the words, and especially how it fit on top of the 2 and 4 of the snare.

Often, we would rep "Verse 1" of song X with melodic instruments in, and then do it again immediately with melodic instruments out. We would "loop" this until it got better. This seemed to help for some singers. Another thing I would do with our singers would be to just speak the words in cadence with them - like rapping - to help them understand how the cadence worked versus t he beat.

Now, I have been lucky to work with singers who are not so big headed, or distracted, and they wanted it to be solid. I have also been in some band situations - but not for very long - where the singer didn't care, and would just be fine with it being off. When that happens - and they refuse to work on it - I just take myself out of the situation.
Now that is a neat idea. Will try that - hope it works for Horns too! :)
 
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