kicking out band member

I wouldn't even deal with a racist homophobe in the first place, so it's hard to relate to your issue. Obviously kick him out.
 
Bo and mike had the two best ideas for a situation like this. What ever you do, do it sooner than later. Dont waste time trying to change him. those are his views, however unpopular they might be. Would you want him to change you? I doubt it so why would he change to the way you see things. Your better off without someone like that in your life, let alone in your band.
 
Hmm

People can change (I've seen it with mine own eyes).

Mebbe this is the shot in the arm he needs to become a better human being.

Just saying...
 
SquadLeader said:
Hmm

People can change (I've seen it with mine own eyes).

Mebbe this is the shot in the arm he needs to become a better human being.

Just saying...
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Nice to think, but In my experience people don't tend to lose prejudice just because others don't approve. He'll just keep his bile to himself - for a while at least.
 
His is the kind of hatred that runs too deep to change IMO
 
Anon La Ply said:
Nice to think, but In my experience people don't tend to lose prejudice just because others don't approve. He'll just keep his bile to himself - for a while at least.
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Possibly....but then there's plenty who do that anyway.
I'd rather know how someone feels about stuff like this. I prefer it out in the open to be challenged and hopefully put right.
If he's a decent friend (who cares what other people think about his views...and people generally DO care) and an otherwise reasonably balanced/decent human being then he may achieve redemption.
He certainly won't if not given the chance to do so and not challenged on his beliefs.
Just me I fear...always try to see the good in people...invariably end up disappointed :)
 
Sure, get swastika tattoos, nazi flags and turn into a hate monger group....OH you mean the other way around...hahaha good luck
 
I would find it difficult to judge someone's views without actually knowing them. Terms like racist and homophobe have been abused for the sake of certain political agendas, and I think it makes it harder to recognize real trouble when it's there. As a band, they should be in control of the way they are perceived, and if one member is creating a problem, then the nature of that problem is something that they need to address themselves.
 
SquadLeader said:
...he may achieve redemption.
He certainly won't if not given the chance to do so and not challenged on his beliefs.
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He has the rest of his life to work on redemption. This band wouldn't be removing that chance by any stretch if they kicked him out. In fact, that has almost nothing to do with it. Either way, kicked to the curb or not, he's aware that his idiocy is affecting his relationships. His redemption, or lack thereof, is his choice, not the band's.

From the band's POV, yeah, you can say, "I don't agree with it, but everyone's entitled to their own opinions..." and of course, that's true, BUT he's already put it out there for public consumption and the band giving him a pass looks like implicit support for those views.

If I know a band member is a rotten soul like that, I'm out - there's guilt by association. If it's someone you work with at your day job, okay fine, not much you can do about that, but in a voluntary artistic endeavor like a band where aesthetics and perceptions are everything, tolerance of that starts getting too close to looking like you might be at least sympathetic to those views yourself.

At some point you have to draw the proverbial line in the sand and not tolerate that kind of intolerance or you run the risk of having it reflect on you and your capacity to make good choices.
 
MikeM said:
He has the rest of his life to work on redemption. This band wouldn't be removing that chance by any stretch if they kicked him out. In fact, that has almost nothing to do with it. Either way, kicked to the curb or not, he's aware that his idiocy is affecting his relationships. His redemption, or lack thereof, is his choice, not the band's.

From the band's POV, yeah, you can say, "I don't agree with it, but everyone's entitled to their own opinions..." and of course, that's true, BUT he's already put it out there for public consumption and the band giving him a pass looks like implicit support for those views.

If I know a band member is a rotten soul like that, I'm out - there's guilt by association. If it's someone you work with at your day job, okay fine, not much you can do about that, but in a voluntary artistic endeavor like a band where aesthetics and perceptions are everything, tolerance of that starts getting too close to looking like you might be at least sympathetic to those views yourself.

At some point you have to draw the proverbial line in the sand and not tolerate that kind of intolerance or you run the risk of having it reflect on you and your capacity to make good choices.
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But the OP stated that he's a friend (didn't he?) and also that he's a fundamental part of the band...didn't I read 60-70% of the creativity somewhere?

Agree with a lot of what people are saying, especially the band guilt by association matter...that's a major issue I agree. Though struggle with this idea that you discard friends and band members because they have twisted views. The OP has had it out with the feller. Sounds to me like the feller has apologised and said he'll change. If friendship is worth shit then the guy has the right now to follow up. If he doesn't then sure, kick his arse out of the band, agreed but strikes me as pretty churlish and somewhat intolerant in itself to ostracise someone who MAY have had his wake up call.

That's not in my makeup....mate of mine makes noises about blacks, Asians, Jews or whatever, and I tell him to stop being a dickhead and grow up. Sure, it carries on ad nauseum and a re-adjustment of our relationship might be called for. I'll try talk the guy round first though.


There's nothing in our physiology which makes us racist for ever...I had almost polar views 20 years ago than I have now on a whole host of subjects.

What I don't do is send him to Coventry...sounds to me like a bit of a teenage girl thing to do with all due respect.
 
I say give the guy another chance. But set a time limit. If he's still doing the same thing in 2013, vote him out. Ask him: Will you help us? All we want is for you to keep your racist and homophobe views out of rehearsal, and off the stage.

So you're not changing him, you are asking for his help
 
The Old Hyde said:
Sure, get swastika tattoos, nazi flags and turn into a hate monger group....OH you mean the other way around...hahaha good luck
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You don't think it's possible for people to change their views ?

Do you have the same views now as you've always had ??
 
larryace said:
I say give the guy another chance. But set a time limit. If he's still doing the same thing in 2013, vote him out. Ask him: Will you help us? All we want is for you to keep your racist and homophobe views out of rehearsal, and off the stage.

So you're not changing him, you are asking for his help
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+1

And if he values the friendships, and the band, and respects peoples views and the second chance which has been given him, then maybe he will make more of an effort to enlighten his outlook.

Sure, it's all pretty longshot....but hell funnier things have happened.

Perhaps the band should recruit a black or Asian keyboard player....that would be interesting...
 
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