music theory: a necessity for drummers

lovemysonors

Senior Member
i'm playing with a band and 2 know theory, 3 don't, including myself. of course the 2 who do can communicate together, but we all seem to put songs together fine.

just wondering how many drummers out there know theory and apply it. i know some drummers who know it but don't apply it, stating that it's more natural instinct over theory that works for drummers...

and i'm curious if a drummer studied theory, if that would noticibly improve one's part in the band as a drummer and not guitarist...i suppose as far as arranging songs it would, but how else?

any thoughts, comments?
 
my friend was in a band known as strange last days.

he played guitar. He and the drummer were both music majors and knew theory well.

the other guitar player and bass player didnt know theory.

the other guitar player quit because he said that "theory limits your creativity because you're trying to do everything perfect and textbook like."

doesnt make sense to me but they made some damn good music.

theory is a must.
 
Music theory can only help the bridges between other players, but isn't nessesary. the more you know about reading/ discussing harmony and grooves, the more you can save time in rehearsal situations. Your ears can also help in knowing the difference of chord structures, give you direction and points of referance. If you are in a punk band slamming it out, you may not think harmony training would help, but it can. But if you were in a punk band you can still slam it out without training. For me , the bottom line is music, and the more knowledge the better,, but it ain't gonna make you feel, it can make you a better communicator, and it may spawn ideas that might not have come otherwise. The best players are the ones that know a huge amount of theory, but throw it away on the gig.
 
As you've already noticed, knowing theory will help you communicate your musical ideas. It's not a necessity, but an extra tool to use.

I agree to that.
Knowing where strong / weak chords in a song can help you know where to build up the intensity of the music or where to play parts that are resolving. However, it can be all naturally heard and felt while playing with other people. As a drummer you don;t need to be thinking, "How am i going to move by minor thirds on a diminished scale chord". So you are really free from any kind of thought like that. You just got to know the form of the song and have a good time feel. It is when you want to take charge of your own group and start writing your own compositions that you are going to need to truly know your theory. Also, it really sucks when working with a quartet and the three other musicians have a strong foundation in theory and the drummer does not. I've been in that boat, and I felt like I wasn't communicating enough. So depending on what you want to accomplish as a drummer; if you are serious don't neglect spending time sitting at another musical instrument studying theory. Needless to say that most music programs are too prominent on harmonic theory and don't spend enough time with working on rhythmic ideas. It can work both ways. I can think of many players that are like that.
 
my friend was in a band known as strange last days.

he played guitar. He and the drummer were both music majors and knew theory well.

the other guitar player and bass player didnt know theory.

the other guitar player quit because he said that "theory limits your creativity because you're trying to do everything perfect and textbook like."

doesnt make sense to me but they made some damn good music.

theory is a must.

He was partially right though, trying to do everything the traditional way of theory can limit your options to just play sometimes and go with what you feel. I don't know a great deal of theory but I love the way I play drums (not an attempt to sound big headed by the way) becuase I think the way I play is emotive. If someone who was strictly theoretical was watching me or listenting to me, he might say "that wasn't executed the way it should be, or hmm...you have an unorthodox aproach to facet X"

Technique and theory can get in the way, because it keeps people in certain boundaries if they feel like " I cant do that becuase its not "correct" ". I freak out and I liiiiiiike it....
 
Not having any knowledge with music theory or rhythmic understanding can keep you in certain boundaries. You don't want to be the musician that looks like they are solving math problems while playing. However, the musical knowledge that you do gain and the things and ideas that you've transcribed for yourself will in the long run make you more aware as a musician. It all doesn't come to you naturally. You got to work at it.
I lived in New York for a few months and worked as a cook at a vegetarian restaurant. I was the only one that could speak English. The rest spoke Spanish which I really don't know to much of. It was always awkward because I could tell that they would crack jokes about me. Anyway, my point is that you can live in America and not speak English and still be able to get by. Or you can be an English speaking American working in a Spanish speaking kitchen and still get by. Both have certain boundaries. If you are not working towards understanding the language you will never be able to transverse that boundary. So diversify yourself.
 
I think if your playing jazz you need to understand changes and structure which is something that is hard to pick up from listening to jazz i think. But playing rock and pop most people know song structures just from listening to that music, its fairly simple mostly.

As far as knowing about chords and stuff being a guitar player before a drummer helped me write better drum parts i think, in that i understood the bigger picture, where the spaces are and where i can fit into those spaces.

Its just listening really though, most of what write for the band im is dictatded to by others, occasionally a rythym i play might inpire a different direction but gennerlly im listening and fitting in.

As far as commication tool it helps in that a guitarist might say "it changes to the chorus on the C" or whatever and i understand what im hearing while im sitting on my drum stool twidling my thumbs.
 
He was partially right though, trying to do everything the traditional way of theory can limit your options to just play sometimes and go with what you feel. I don't know a great deal of theory but I love the way I play drums (not an attempt to sound big headed by the way) becuase I think the way I play is emotive. If someone who was strictly theoretical was watching me or listenting to me, he might say "that wasn't executed the way it should be, or hmm...you have an unorthodox aproach to facet X"

Technique and theory can get in the way, because it keeps people in certain boundaries if they feel like " I cant do that becuase its not "correct" ". I freak out and I liiiiiiike it....


I disagree. I hear a lot of people saying these, and these are people who don't know much about music theory and didn't havIe formal lessons. And it really shows in their playing. The guys I know who understands music more just play better (not necessary them having formal lessons, some study by themselves).

As some guys has already stated, its not something thats supposed to limit you but something to help you understand how music works.
 
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As some guys has already stated, its not something thats supposed to limit you but something to help you understand how music works.

Yes, its not SUPPOSED to limit you, but people let themselves get limited by these things. It is the human condition of not wanting to do something incorrectly that is the problem, I am not going to sit here and be as stupid as to say technique and proper knowledge is a bad thing. Consider Wynton Marsalis's view of this :

"Classical musicians are artisans, while jazz musicians are artists"
 
dude yeah i highly recommend learing it. and better yet learn a pitched intrument as well, like key board or something.

after i learned about it i can express so many ideas that make my band sound better.
 
Its true, knowing theory does save time and help convey ideas (iv forgotten all i used to know!) but its not a must.

In our band we have 2 songwriters who'll do the lyrics and what I, in my infinite theory knowledge, will call 'the tune'. They then play it and i consider it my job to play something fitting and see if they agree.

The most musical communication i ever get is 'do like...32nds...sort of...two on the hi hat....then like booom, chugga-dum over the top...see?' But we hardly ever need to resort to that!
 
Again,,,, my theory teacher in school told me to drop any theory knowledge once you start the gig. Theory isn't for creating, its to work on things before you play. It may however take years to get that point, or it may happen instantly/
 
theory isnt going to just happen overnight. knowing the material, like scales and modes, is one thing. knowing how to impliment it properly is another entirely, and that takes time. i really do think its necessary, especially in todays musical/professional environment.
 
You're only limited by your own imagination. Theory will help you understand what you are writing and playing. It won't tell you what to write.

Actually it can help you a great deal with knowing what and how to write. Nor will it stifle any creative imaginings...that myth is ridiculous. If you have a creative mind and a large theoretical base of knowledge underneath that, all you have is a whole lot more options when it comes to playing and writing and thinking music. Theory will not kill creativity. Thats like the whole metronomes will make you sound like a robot. It only adds to your playing.
What you learn in theory can also open up wonders that you probably never thought would be there.
But, like fat in the middle said, the best players are those who have a great knowledge of theory then throw it away when playing.
 
On some level, in order to play music well, you have to "get" theory, even if you don't really "know" it in a formal sense. The thing is, if you are someone who has the ability to "get it" to feel tension and resolution, to hear how notes move within a chord progression etc, that is all the more reason TO study theory so you can really make the most of that talent. If by learning theory you suddenly magically become stiff and uncreative, then you probably weren't as creative as you thought in the first place.
 
I can't believe some of the posts that I'm reading here.

No one who actually knows any music theory would ever say that it forces you to play "too perfect' or that it gets in the way of imagination and creativity.

Creatvity is within you. It is not "damaged" by learning theory. Unless you feel that Mozart would have been even more creative had he not known what the hell he was doing.
 
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