I accept defeat.

Bull

Gold Member
I am currently playing a 14/16/18/26 kit. I love it everything about it. I tune it kind of high,by today's standards. It sounds great from the driver's seat and better from the room mic during rehearsal recordings. Total classic hard rock sound. I have already ported the kick ,just to make things easier and faster for the house soundmen. The thing is,none of them seem to have any luck with the toms either.

I have been recorded with these drums,tuned in the same manner, to great results. I have also had monster live tones with a pro engineer. We just can't afford him every show and depend on the house. Most of the other bands on the bills usually employ J.A.W. tuning. With four bands on the bill, the engineer really just wants to move the mic and be done with it. I give up.

Hi, My name is Bull and my drums are tuned j.A.W. It has been 4 days since I had a drum tone.
 
I too have the same problem. Unfortunately, it seems to me (and I may be wrong here) that drums tuned to lower pitches do not "carry" across the din of a band. Drums that are tuned on the slightly higher side seem to cut through the mix much better. The gains in tone when tuned a little higher are obvious as well...
 
I too have the same problem. Unfortunately, it seems to me (and I may be wrong here) that drums tuned to lower pitches do not "carry" across the din of a band. Drums that are tuned on the slightly higher side seem to cut through the mix much better. The gains in tone when tuned a little higher are obvious as well...

absolutely true. With lower tunings you depend on the P.A. more in smaller clubs.
 
I feel your pain.

I'm running all small toms right now as they're easier/faster to tune, and they are better heard in the places I play. If I don't backline, I'm usually stuck behind a kit (usually of poor quality, and suspect condition to begin with) with dented heads tuned to JAW. The smallest size is usually 12-13". I might as well not have toms as they are barely audible, muddy thumps.

The more I play and hear these kits live, the more I love my 8 and 10" toms. they're easier to transport, and take up less space around the kit to boot. On a good birch kit, a 10" tom can be very versatile in terms of pitch.

When I'm feeling brave, and the Delite kit goes out for a night on the town, I love the deep 8" maple tom. It cuts, sings and has plenty of depth of tone. Recently, during a set break I had a drummer approach me and say how strange it was to hear actual tones from a live kit. We both lamented the large sizes and JAW tuning that is so prevalent.

One of these days I'm going to run just the 8" up, and a 12" down as a live sound experiment. I know running with these sizes is a fashion faux pa to many drummers, but fashion be damned!

Now to find a good 20" kick. I think I'm done with 22"!

Here's to thinking small!!!
 
I've got a 5 pc. bop kit set up (no gigs).

I tuned it ridiculously high - think Minnie Mouse on helium - LOL
JBC -(Just Below Choking)

At first it sounded really strange to me. But it's so very easy to play, with major stick rebound, that I decided to try it that way for a while.
Now that sound has kind of grown on me.
 
Try having bandmates that think a tom you're standing next to should sound like a heavily produced album tom.

They just don't get it. The only way they say my drums sound good is if they are JAW and toneless, or are muffled till they sound like nothing.

I have recently had a bit of luck by going almost JAW on top, and then full JAW on the reso. The looser reso head seems to bring back just a hint of a tone. Maybe I'm imagining.
 
My condolences.

..........

No offense intended, but your forum participation seems to be either about your 400th drum acquisition of the last year, or random stuff like the above.

Can you clarify please? Why bother taking the time to post?

I think this is a cool topic, and one that resonates with a huge number of working drummers. Would love to hear more thoughts and opinions on the topic.
 
The thing is,none of them seem to have any luck with the toms either.
.

I guess I don't get this. Why can't people/soundmen simply live with the sound *you* choose to have coming off *your* kit. Like that is "your sound", end of story. And in a small club why not just overheads on your large kit and that's all that is needed?

If a guitarist shows up with a string out of tune, or is tuned down a half-tone, no soundman tells him to tune up. Its his sonic choice.
 
I guess I don't get this. Why can't people/soundmen simply live with the sound *you* choose to have coming off *your* kit. Like that is "your sound", end of story. And in a small club why not just overheads on your large kit and that's all that is needed?

If a guitarist shows up with a string out of tune, or is tuned down a half-tone, no soundman tells him to tune up. Its his sonic choice.

It's a good question. Sometimes I end up with a sound guy who makes pure magic happen. It's rare. Most of the time the sound guys I've been saddled with are either too busy texting to care, or are just doing the bare minimum that is required. This is in the remaining live music clubs in Boston, so I can't speak for the rest of the country/world.

It's often a different sound guy from night to night/month to month. On one night a venue can have superb drum sound. On another it can be total mush. There's no way to predict it. You just have to roll with it as best you can.

It's a strange thing because drums sound so good these days. You would think pulling a reasonable sound would be a reasonable thing, but at least in my neck of the woods it's hit or miss.

I have had some really wonderful sound guys in the area. I don't want to disparage those hardworking folks who deliver the goods. I've had some real stinkers though. Very frustrating.

I do think using higher toms are a reasonable response though. Sometimes the backlined kit is your weakest link. All you can do is play your best, and hope some of it comes through.
 
No offense intended, but your forum participation seems to be either about your 400th drum acquisition of the last year, or random stuff like the above.

Can you clarify please? Why bother taking the time to post?

I think this is a cool topic, and one that resonates with a huge number of working drummers. Would love to hear more thoughts and opinions on the topic.

You need to clarify what you mean about "no offense intended" when you insinuate I do only one or two things here and wonder why I post at all. The fact of the matter is is that I've been here for well over 10,000 posts and have had long discussions on a lot of drum related subjects, this being one of them. I know where Bull is coming from and have been there myself probably more often than some. When his situation happens, all I can offer are my condolences, and like most deaths, you move through it onto hopefully happier circumstances.

I apologize for not wearing my "been there, done that" hat when posting. This would be a good discussion but really, it'll just fuel disdain for sound guys, and having both a career as a drummer and an audio engineer, working in Entertainment for a huge worldwide entertainment corporation, my reactions will often come off as light-hearted because people in this industry are often just too serious.

Like your post.
 
Big bouncy tubs FTW. I say get some clunker "metal" cymbals, something bigger than a 2B, and show them your muscles. To hell with with sound guys and their close tom mics!
 
I saw Brian Blade a couple months ago with Daniel Lanois.
He had what looked to be a 24" bass with the other drums tuned fairly jazz high. Not pingy bop, but good tone.

The kit was miked with a couple sm57's at about a foot away from the drums. No close mics.
Just a couple of simple set mics.

Nothing fancy at all and it sounded great.
 
You need to clarify what you mean about "no offense intended" when you insinuate I do only one or two things here and wonder why I post at all. The fact of the matter is is that I've been here for well over 10,000 posts and have had long discussions on a lot of drum related subjects, this being one of them.

I apologize for not wearing my "been there, done that" hat when posting. This would be a good discussion but really, it'll just fuel disdain for sound guys.

I think the issue of how to approach live sound as a drummer is an interesting one, regardless of how "experienced" someone is. If your incredible post count on an online forum, and extensive experience in the industry, precludes you from the discussion, that's totally cool. Mazaltov. You don't have to read, or respond.

But you took the time to post, and post without content. I'm left to wonder how many of your 10,000 posts are comprised of a few snarky words followed by ellipses?

Like I said, I'm not intending offense. I just don't understand your post in the context of the thread. I'm calling you on it because I think it's crappy.

My apologies to the original poster for the thread derailment.
 
...Like I said, I'm not intending offense. I just don't understand your post in the context of the thread. I'm calling you on it because I think it's crappy.

My apologies to the original poster for the thread derailment.

Really?

The nature of online interaction is such that more rather than less offense is likely, because subtlety does not survive HTTP.

The OP expressed dismay at a particular occurrence.

Bo expressed sympathy for the situation.

I must have missed the memo that said that only wordy and worthy responses would henceforth be allowed.
 
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