Help a gear noob step up his game? (advice needed)

jamesc

Junior Member
Hey everybody, checking in because you guys are the bomb at what you do from what I've read. And I needed some serious expert opinions. I am a huge gear noob, but NOT when it comes to playing.

I'm currently playing on a PDP Mainstage (already know y'alls opinion on it lol), it was one of the worst buying decisions I've ever made as I started out with $700 I had earned and just looked up a kit on google with no research or playing put into it. and obviously it is sounding pretty shitty by now as I have learned to seriously play drums and have a skill set much beyond my medium. Feels like I'm hitting cardboard to be honest. I have spent much time learning on this kit, trying to tune it etc, and mostly keeping the stock heads on so I don't ruin any new ones during my learning process. I can never get the sound I want out of this kit, perhaps its my tuning, perhaps its the heads, but I hate it. The feel is degrading to my art form.


The good news is I may be able to resell it soon (at as much as $600), which blows my mind as I've been held back by my gear for years! and it is embarrassing how little I know about it to be honest.

I also own a few other drums including a really old Yamaha Stage Custom bass and two toms (they even have an old stage custom logo on the bass). I have ignored these pieces since I got them as they sounded so bad then. After doing some more research on here, I've heard Lots of good things about these, only problem being they have been kept in hot garages and not taken care of for 5-10 years before my friend gave them to me (and then in my hot garage for another 5 lol). I knew nothing about drums at the time and didn't even realize it is missing hardware on the bass drum when I played it LOL (6 lugs and bolts for the batter side) and still has stock heads, not tuned at all O_O

I also own a Roland TD-10 drum module and a horrible rubber kit setup (3 toms, snare, 3 cymbals, hi hat all rubber). I never got anything I wanted out of this and some of the cymbals were even unresponsive, so I bought the Mainstage thinking it would be a "step up" back in the day. :(


I am extremely confident in my abilities, even going as far as to say that I am better than many people who have nice gear setups the first time I sit at their drums. The only problem is I have no idea where to go from here as far as getting the best bang for my buck. I will most likely have $600 soon, if I do manage to sell the PDP beater kit. Is there any use for the Roland kit with the rubber crap? I kinda just want to get rid of the whole thing, and the PDP too. I am ready to get a pro-level kit to be honest, or at least a reallllly high end intermediate one. Wish I wouldn't have sat on my ass this whole time with the research.

I was wondering if there is any hope in my existing kits at all -- I was considering buying the hardware needed to work the Stage Custom but at this point didn't know if they were worth fixing. I guess pictures are a better idea, but these drums are by no means broken etc just haven't been maintained.

TL;DR: I own a PDP mainstage and it's crappy stock cymbals and hi-hat. I also have a truly old school, out of commission Stage Custom three piece (bass and two toms). And a rubber 5 piece Roland TD-10 setup with 3 rubber cymbals. What is my best bet for this current array of crap, and how can I best capitalize on the extra pieces?

My thought was to sell the PDP for as much as I can (someone might even pay up to $600 with cymbals and hi-hat!), but then I would have no cymbals, bad hats and little hardware (a Yamaha hi-hat stand and kick pedal being it, along with some low-end cymbal stand). I could also sell the Roland TD-10, with the drum brain being at least $350 on ebay and the whole setup going for as much as $750 but would take longer. I also have a pair of DW7000 pedals that are not being used, and a lower end $150 Mapex double pedal that I use on my PDP (the DW pedals don't seem to reach the drum.)


So basically I have the ability to get at least $950+ out of the PDP and drum brain alone (not counting the other possible ~$400 if they wanted the full Roland kit) -- all of this would go towards a full drum upgrade. Not to mention having some $150 double kicks laying around that could be sold.
I know that's a shitload of information to go through just to help me out, but you pros can make this gear noob's year (life?!) by giving me any sort of guidance here. I am reallly hoping to step up my drumming to the next level, as I have gigged a few times on other people's nice kits stunning myself with the difference in feel.

THANK YOU AND MUCH LOVE FROM TEXAS!!
 
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Hey man, look....relax a second and reflect on where you are and what's going on. You currently have some drums you can play. I reckon you reassessthe situation and think about it differently.

Firstly, cymbals are to me the most important thing to purchase. Drums can be helped so much by changing the heads and having a go at tuning them properly. If you're gonna throw money at this, change the top and bottom heads on your current stuff. Arguments happen over this stuff but I would get Pinstripes for the batter heads and clear Ambassadors for the reso's on the toms. Powerstroke 3's for both the bass drum sides, (no muffling needed then).

Now, with the toms and their new heads, take them to finger tight, and lean on them pretty good in the middle of the head. You will see that they will wrinkle towards the bearing edges. Take your key and turn each rod until the wrinkle is gone. Repeat with all toms, bottom and top.

Bass drum is a bit different, but still do the same on both sides. Then, with the batter, whilst leaning strongly on it, turn it back, (looser), a quarter turn on each rod. On the Reso , again whilst leaning on it, tighten it up three quarters of a turn after the wrinkle is gone.

Snare drum is hard. I've heard so many different ways to tune a snare, but a great place to start is to tighten the reso nice and tight...as in tighter than you might think, really tight. make sure the tension is fairly equal, don't tighten one lug more than the others, evenly do it.. Then tighten the batter head evenly to get the sound you want. This should also be with new heads...probably something like Ambassador or Emperor for the batter and a snare side thin head for the reso.

As I said before, cymbals are hugely important, mostly because you can't change their sound...you're stuck. But with drums and heads you can make a super-cheap set sound like gold...believe me, I've done it. Patience mate, a few bucks on heads is a better investment than buying a new kit and having the same problems.
 
Oh man, I needed that post a lot. You've totally changed my techniques on tuning by the way. Thank you for that dude. Also will be looking into some high end cymbals, not sure where to start but that's not as much of a problem, I can do the research.

Fortunately I happen to have Remo Pinstripe (Crimplock) batters for all of the toms laying around. I didn't however invest in any reso heads or anything at all for the bass drums/snare (aside from a shitty evans reverse dot head). I guess I should buy all these, soon anyway.

You really think I'm better off playing the Mainstage then trying to get the Yamaha shit working though? I could buy new heads for those instead and new hardware, I wouldn't need to sell the PDP to do so. Actually I'll put up some pics of the Yamahas.. I've been reading all over the net that this PDP "entry-level" kit is something I need to get rid of if I can, as I do have a lot of natural talent behind a kit and have been working for 5 years on it (not too toot my own horn but yeah I can really play). The snare drum is especially horrible, but yeah I just really hate this kit enough to be skeptical. Not that I won't take your word for it, it's just I've seen people say on here that it is truly a bad drumset and so on and so forth. Made in China, bad bearings, won't sound right despite the tuning, the lists go on. I could nearly make the entire investment back because someone is offering to buy it at a ridiculous price.

Thanks again man
 
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You can make decent kits sound good just by putting some time in.
Here's a clip of me playing an 86 stage custom with Emperors on top and Ambassadors on bottom. This was in high school so I wasn't the best at tuning, but it still sounds pretty good.
P.S. the 18" has a Pinstripe because it has a Pinstripe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLrYroWzJ8

Here's my $750 Catalina Maple in a session from earlier this year. Again, I have Emperors on top, and Ambassadors on bottom. You should spend a couple bucks and figure out if it's the stock heads that are the problem. The stock heads on my Catalina Maple were decent, but they gave out really quick and difference in sound from upgrading is pretty awesome.
I definitely agree with the post about upgrading cymbals though. The cymbals and snare I played on this session are worth more than the rest of my kit!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjwDwI1TL7Q
 
Here's pics of the gear in question:

Crapdp kit lol
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1048/photorzx.jpg

Random Telluride kit and my Roland TD-10 setup in background:
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5342/photo2su.jpg

Yamaha Custom (promising?)
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4412/photo3hc.jpg

Thanks for any help you guys can give.. still unsure whether I should amp up the PDP or the Yamaha or if I just need to buy a Gretsch Catalina etc..

It all depends on your budget and how much time you have to upgrade.

For starters, I would clean up the PDP, the Roland, and the Telluride kit (never heard of that one) and sell them on craigslist ASAP. You will definitely have much better response if you clean them up very well, set them up properly (no toms at crazy angles), and take good quality pictures.

The Stage Customs are pretty decent low-to-mid level kits and they should clean up and tune up nicely. New heads are a MUST, top AND bottom. Don't skimp on the heads; it will cost about $100 to replace all the heads including the snare and bass drum, but it is worth it. Double-ply heads (G2 or Emperor) over single-ply heads (G1 or Ambassador) are pretty standard and should sound great. Pre-muffled heads like Pinstripes or EC2 are an option as well, but I would start with the unmuffled heads first. Add some moongel or o-rings if needed.

Once the SC's are clean, re-headed, and tuned, then take care of them! They should last a long time with proper care, and I think you will be surprised how much better they sound than the PDP kit.

You didn't really list what snares and/or cymbals you have. Your next step should be to rehead your snare drum as well, then get a decent snare and cymbals. These are the things that you will hit most, so take the money that you got from selling the junker kits and upgrade your snare (a matching Stage Custom snare is only $150 or so) and then your hi-hats and ride (in that order). Crashes are last.

You should be able to do all of this in a couple of months and have a really decent setup. Focus on one thing at a time and it should all come together! Add onto this thread as you go so we can see how you are doing. :)
 
Just curious ...is the PDP set up as you would play it ? First thing I have noticed is the kick/ bass drum is around the wrong way....so if the stock heads are on you would be srtiking the reso head rather than the batter.

It would also mean the toms are a lot closer to you and in order to maintain distance you end up having to position them with a larger "gap" between your toms....so basically the ergonomics are out for starters.

Second stock heads generally wont give you the best sound, I concur with the others on replacing the heads, what you choose is up to you according to the sound you want......I like Evans personally and not exactly sure why you find the reverse dot crappy as its a recommended batter head for a number of mid range snares.

Then its tuning tuning tuning...it can take awhile to get exactly the right sound for you but its worth the effort. My first drum was a Yammie Gigmaker...I immediatly changed the stock heads gor G2s and it sounded twice as expensive a drum.

I dont know much about PDPs, but I would give the Yammie a decent clean up. You can try the toms out straight away as you can possibly insert the tom mounts into the base of a cymbal stand ( I can anyway if I choose to add in my 8 inch tom to my set...I just mount it in a spare stand)

You can then at least play with the toms to see what you think before deciding on which kit...mind you the skins on the Yammie are probably dead as well.

I will be shot for saying this but if the tom widths are the same buy some new skins and try them on one drum, then the other (yess I know your not supposed to re use / transfer skins from drum to drum ...but a budget is a budget)

You might want to do simple checks like are the drums still in round, are the bearing edges in good condition, any other defects before choosing what you keep.

With respect you say you are a skilled player but being able to tune your kit properly is a hallmark of a good drum craftsperson......and getting things the right way round helps too !!!

They reckon a good drummer can make a shit kit sound great..... so personally a bit of love spent on your kits you might find they both are beter than you thought...... and if you choose to sell one you might find them easier to sell.....
 
Heads and tuning will make all of the drums that you own sound good.
Put your money in cymbals, snares, and pedal/pedals first.
Those three things are what really make any kit work well

I would concentrate on the Yamaha drums. Buy both a metal, and a wooden snare of pro quality to go with that kit. Add pro cymbals, and pedals.

sell the other drums.
 
Hot damn. I could not have asked for better responses, y'all. Seriously.

Miles, I think we may have similar shells (the same?!) haha, and your tone is damn good on the "high school video", well both actually. The bounciness is exactly what I'm looking for. The hi hats actually were spot on for the style of music I play, now I'm kinda interested in what hats you had XD Promise I won't steal the sound entirely haha

Brad, that is exactly what I was hoping to hear!! From tapping the side of the Yamaha bass and reso, I can already tell it is of a much higher quality, like 3x better than what I'm currently working on. You've convinced me to get the others cleaned up and garbage bagged for the long run. Realizing I can't keep up this lazy ass attitude with the kits haha. Their value isn't gonna get any better! Thanks a ton for all the pointers, and as far as the snare and cymbals, I'm using the stock ones that came with the Mainstage, even the snare, so they are pretty bad. I'm likely selling it all along with the PDP to my friend for the $600 I originally paid! This should free up enough for some hardware/heads, at least a cheap snare (I'm thinking a nice Supralite) and some nice hats, maybe a cymbal or two. Gonna sell the other drums as well and it'll all go into these purchases!! You're the bomb dude.

Wombat, yeah it's set up how I play it haha. Used to have it the other way around but I actually found the toms to be too far away for whatever reason. I am hitting the batter head but most likely attached to the reso side (lol). I have spent the past few years drumming hard, but not learning as much about the technical side.. I spend hours a day on technique, even tuning etc but all the hard work and time that goes with setting up, taking care of, and maintaining kits was a little "too much" for my absent mindedness to handle. I am waking up though haha, and realizing that I can't expect to continue growth until I put in this "extra time". I am by no means a craftperson at all. Especially taking care of the older drums. Part of the reason the reverse dot might sound bad, is I tried it out on the Mainstage stock snare... which is a joke XD I think I dislike the PDP enough to get rid of it period though, not going to waste any more time and effort on heads for it etc.

Bob, I have seen your posts around here when just googling about my drums etc. To hear that from you has truly confirmed how I need to tackle this situation lol. I am slowly learning man.

Eclipse.. fuck yeah haha, I was wondering about the floor tom in my head.. but at how cheap that is, and it'd be matching the others.. Hell yeah. Might jump on that exact auction XD I really can't wait to hear what it sounds like when I have the Yamaha up and running.

I will be sure to update on my progress!! It blows my mind how accessible all this information is, I wanted to thank everyone for taking time of their day, truly.. you have made my situation easy to tackle and I am even pumped to do so.

O_O Thanks dudes!!!
 
Another vote for Yamaha. Stage Customs are very popular. Finding matching drums ..... look on CraigsList and eBay.​
I'm sure part of the sound problem is just very old, very tired heads. But the Yamaha kit is a much better kit (IMO). Get that up and running, and you'll get many miles out of it.​
Then, start building your kit, to get "your" sound. Shop around for snare drums. Play as many as you can, and grab the one you like. Same with cymbals. Find the sound you want .... and then get it. Keep the cymbals you have, for now. And as you can afford to upgrade the hats, ride, crashes ..... do so.​
 
Miles, I think we may have similar shells (the same?!) haha, and your tone is damn good on the "high school video", well both actually. The bounciness is exactly what I'm looking for. The hi hats actually were spot on for the style of music I play, now I'm kinda interested in what hats you had XD Promise I won't steal the sound entirely haha

The 80's Stage Customs aren't as nice as the newer Stage Customs. The newer ones are 100% Birch while the 80's are typically Birch over Mahogany. I'd definitely recommend Emperors over Ambassadors. That's what I've almost always played. As far as the hi hats, in the high school video they're old hollow logo Zildjians with a chunk or two missing and on the most recent video they're 14" Paiste Dark Energy Mark I hi hats. I definitely prefer the DE's, but there's a steep price tag on them.
 
Your actually lucky to have a kit that nice
take your time in tuning that is what you need and also use different heads
sell those double pedals and buy a single until you learn how to tune
and lastly save money for cymbals (this is better than buying double pedals)

PS: THINK BEFORE BUYING : you bought a lot of unnecessary stuff (my opinion)
 
Its a buyers market right now. Great deals on great gear abound. If I were you, I'd sell everything you have. If you can raise $1000, you can get a very nice, used pro level kit. I saw a low mileage Yamaha Oak Custom go on eBay last night for $800. This is one example, and its a big step up from the Stage series. There are tons of used kits on Guitar Center's site, eBay, etc.

If I were you, I'd spend some time getting familiar with brands and specific drum lines, models, etc. This forum alone, will give you tons of info. Once you sell all of your stuff, you can be ready to move on something, but you need to get educated so you can make a sound decision. Slow down and do this in a smart way, and you could end up with a very nice kit. Good luck!
 
Just sold the PDP for $600 haha. Well actually I have $540 right now, being paid back $60 later. I already paid $25 ebay to replace the lugs on the Stage bass drum, bringing me down to $515 (+$60).

From here I'm probably just replacing all the heads and buying a badass snare (used I assume) and hi hats. I actually have a Stage Custom Steel snare that I could also fix up, it'd need new heads and new snare wires etc. but is otherwise perfectly jammable. Might save the snare money and blow it all on cymbals and hardware instead. I only have one cymbal and shitty hi hat stands/double pedals now! (Mapex double pedal, DW7000, and a PDP mainstage hi hat stand lol).

So many options.. plenty of time :)

Thanks again!
 
I play those PDPs at a rehearsal studio and I like them quite a bit. With G2 clear batter heads on the toms they rock pretty damn good. Well you sold 'em, so it's all moot. Keep rockin'.
 
Congrats on selling the pdp set quickly. If you have a Stage Custom Steel snare I would stick with that for now. Spend most of your money on nice hi-hats and a ride. Look for used ones on ebay, craigslist, and in the used pile at the local music store. Don't go all out and spend $300 on a fancy hi-hat stand. Just get some mid-grade hardware that will work.

Good luck and have fun
 
I've stated this before on this forum and others and will again here, particularly after seeing Miles' videos of his 80's Stage Customs below.. those drums are made like tanks and you will get tons of mileage out of them. Very often, they're used in recording studios and in big venues as a house kit because tuned and EQ'd properly, they're indistinguishable from any other pro-level kit. I've played one in my rehearsal space for years and they're great. Even though the ones in our space are beat to hell, the shell construction is fantastic and Yamaha makes the best hardware out there. Furthermore, because they were one of the most popular introductory kits going for a long time, the parts for them are super easy to get and finding shells in different sizes is super easy.

A friend of mine who plays professionally still plays his mismatched 8-piece mid-90's Stage Custom in live settings more regularly than his other kits (even after upgrading to a Recording Custom - which now lives in his studio - having a few vintage kits and briefly owning a Tama Starclassic Bubinga that was purchased solely for touring). He says prefers the Yamaha sound - which, if cleaned up and tuned properly, these will have.

Clean them well, put new heads on them as instructed below, watch lots of videos on ergonomics and tuning on Youtube and seriously dedicate yourself to making what you have sound as good as you possibly can. You will fall in love with these drums.
 
In case your trying to save a few bucks for decent hardware - I think yamaha makes some of the best hardware when it comes to traveling. They are built like tanks IMO.
Really simple great hardware at a great price especially if you do lots of touring. Pretty reliable if you ask me; but I'm just one person :)

Good luck on the rest of your kit!
 
Interesting thread. My first thought is to go with BGH's idea. Clean up and sell everything.

You can get a new Stage Custom Birch kit for $650 ($553 when they're on sale). That'd wipe out your gains, but you still have several pieces to sell. With the money from the Teluride kit, the Stage Customs you already have, and the Roland, you could get a quality used set of hats, a ride, and some stands.

But, if you keep the Stage Customs you currently have, I agree that you should give that snare a try. Give it new heads, snares if it needs it, and see where you're at. Those snares usually come with an O ring type thing to set on top if it gives you too much ring. They're pretty cheap if you don't have one already, or you could use moon gel. I agree that you shouldn't overspend on hardware. I like mid level (700 series) Yamaha stuff myself.

One other thing - I don't see a floor tom for the Stage Custom kit you have in the pics. Do you have one?

Oh ya - the bass drum spurs always face the front to level it out and keep the front hoop off the floor. Ha ha. But hey, whatever works, right?
Keep us updated. I'm curious how this is gonna' go.
 
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