Need help convincing parents about bass pedals.

Ferret said:
....well even I knew when I was 15 the whole point was to be able to go twice as fast as you should be able to do on 1 foot. the ruff figure you're talking about is the same as a thrash triplet to a double player doing it right.
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Yeah but a lot of guys don't have that kind of maturity... they think the double pedal is good for ruffs and diddles... obviously the point is to be able to play 2x the notes in the same space... just like using 2 hands instead of 1.

comic amusement said:
.
i wanted advice and got berated on how i should keep my crappy ones.
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No, you got berated because you were like "How do i make my parents buy me one" and for wanting the top of the line instead of a mid-range pedal. you asked that instead of "How can i get a double bass pedal for cheap" or "how can i save up to buy it on my own" If you had the $600 i doubt many people would have bashed you for your post or told you to keep the crappy pedal... we probably would have been like "well its your money, there might be other options that aren't as expensive but you should upgrade"

comic amusement said:
*as in, the play of the slave pedal feels like im playing in a big vat of oil. how can i reduce this?
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How about a second kick with a single pedal? then they will be exactly the same... no wasted energy through the rod. No sluggish-ness.
bonzolead said:
I don't. care for any double pedals because one pedal with the rod isn't. going too play like the other that's on the bass drum it's. basic physics.
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and to fix it to its full potential:

Bol-D said:
now in the hole reducing the play in your existing pedal. were is the play. tighten every thing. if it can't be tighten. it might need a spacer, longer screw maybe. oil the basted there it need's it.
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I play my single pedal very tight... i think a lot of speed can come from tightening up the springs because the rebound is much faster so you can get it back down again much quicker. Also try oiling the moving parts with some wd40 or something... i think that will make a big difference. I personally don't like the feel of ANY double bass pedal I've played for exactly the reason Bonzolead said... no matter what pedal it is, the slave will still not function exactly as the single pedal.
 
thelimpingtoad said:
I personally don't like the feel of ANY double bass pedal I've played for exactly the reason Bonzolead said... no matter what pedal it is, the slave will still not function exactly as the single pedal.
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Except for offset pedals like mine which are cheaper than Axis!
 
I think your success on the double pedal is about 80-90 percent hard practice and technique. Also, from my experience you should base your pedal purchase on personal preference and personal preference alone. Play every pedal you are considering purchasing and don't let brands or price tags motivate your decision. If you do happen to actually prefer the 600 USD Axis pedal, then you have the option of saving up or going for a cheaper alternative. But you are likely to find that there are several pedals in the 150-300 dollar range that are not only professional in quality but also rival the feel and responsiveness of higher-end brands. Hell, you might even PREFER a cheaper pedal.
 
thelimpingtoad said:
Just curious... what pedal do you play? I apologize if you said earlier... i didn't notice it.
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It's the Sleishman in my avatar, and thanks for the advice about fast doubles and triplets on single pedal, i might try having my pedal tight to see if i prefer it.
 
JT1 said:
It's the Sleishman in my avatar, and thanks for the advice about fast doubles and triplets on single pedal, i might try having my pedal tight to see if i prefer it.
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Haha... i didn't even realize that was a pedal in your av. Do you have any pics of your kit setup with these on it? i am wondering how you line up your kick and snare etc.
 
thelimpingtoad said:
Haha... i didn't even realize that was a pedal in your av. Do you have any pics of your kit setup with these on it? i am wondering how you line up your kick and snare etc.
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Yes i will take some and post them. The design of the pedal is so that you set up the kit with the bass drum directly in front of you. This allows you to bring the hi-hat in closer and have your rack toms directly in front of you rather than reaching to one side to hit them. It's extremely useful for balancing out your kit. But the best thing is... NO LINKAGE!!
 
comic amusement said:
i agree with you. it will not instantly make me better, hell no. it will open the door (or make it easier to), for me to get better.
i have, to quote the post below yours, "exceeded the functionality of the pedal*"
and the axis is the one i liked.

and its not like im asking my parents to BAM! get me a $600 pedal for nothing, i have been trying to find out what they want me to do in exchange, $600 is a very large sum of money. but; they dont see why i need the pedals in the first place, and that has been shutting down my reasoning with them. if i can get them to understand why then that will get them thinking.

*as in, the play of the slave pedal feels like im playing in a big vat of oil. how can i reduce this?
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I used to think I had the same problem with my pedal, then I realized my left foot chops sucked. I bitched a bout my slave pedal all day long when I was young, then I tried my friends 2 single pedal on 2 kick drum set up....it sounded the same.

Now, the axis pedal won't even open up doors for a player like me, my cobras just work too well. You don't need them, you just don't. Not unless you're playing 250bpm all the time. Your argument would only hold weight if you are trying to argue that not one drummer alive could play fast/evenly on your pedal, because of its poor design. I don't buy that.

Now how can you fix this? get yourself a metronome, set it on the 16th note setting at around 120BPM for starters and make sure every hit is lining up evenly by putting so much force into the hit that the pedal lag doesn't have the strength to resist your strokes. If you can get that down to about 220bpm then you will just thunder on a better pedal and you'll have a much easier time making the argument.

As it is, could you take your parents to guitar center and show them a noticeable difference in your playing between the two pedals? When you can, then you have a case. Your parents aren't saying this isn't the best pedal on the market, they just really doubt the difference it would make for you is worth 600 bucks, you're gonna have to prove that with playing.
 
Like many people, i would not pay over 360 or so on a pedal. You should look at pedals around that range, try them out, and look at deals. Then meet with your parents tell then what you found and ask if they will pay for half or a quarter.
 
I have to agree with what most people have said: there are plenty of other great pedals that don't cost nearly as much (especially used gear), and there is value in learning how to play well on crappy gear.

That being said, I think we've all been guilty of making that "irrational" purchase (though I'm sure most of us would still think ALL of our purchases have been rational!). It didn't make us better drummers, but it probably did inspire us - and probably also gave us a truckload of joy knowing we're one step closer to achieving that perfect kit that pervades our dreams. So give the kid a break already and don't be so quick to judge his character!

comic_amusement, I think it would be more constructive not to approach your parents saying "I want _____, can you buy it for me?", but rather "I want _____, how can I earn it?" It'll show your parents you're serious about drumming, you're patient enough to wait as long as it takes, and you're mature enough to put in the hard work. Do it in steps - instead of asking what it'll take to earn $600 all at once from them, start with $100, then another $100, etc. It's possible that before you reach your goal, you might not want the Axis pedals, or you might find them used for much cheaper.

And then, when you've got your sights set on that next piece of dream gear, you'll know how to get it - I mean, earn it.
 
Sable said:
That being said, I think we've all been guilty of making that "irrational" purchase (though I'm sure most of us would still think ALL of our purchases have been rational!).
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Wow... that sure is true :) i've definately made some irrational and rush decisions on buying gear in the past... difference is that I was spending my own money on it.
Sable said:
It didn't make us better drummers, but it probably did inspire us - and probably also gave us a truckload of joy knowing we're one step closer to achieving that perfect kit that pervades our dreams.
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Another excellent point... you're right... while new gear doesn't make you a better drummer, it very likely will inspire you.. or at least make playing more enjoyable.
You could play just as well on a crappy kit as a really nice custom dw but the point is that you'll definately feel better about yourself playing on the high-end equipment and your overall sound will be better... that being said... i think its important to take small steps with upgrading equipment instead of buying all top of the line gear... I really don't think i could justify top-of the line equipment after only playing for 2 years, especially if i couldn't afford to pay for it myself. In fact... i can't even justify the expense of a full high-end kit now and i've been playing for like 15 years.
 
Sable said:
and there is value in learning how to play well on crappy gear.
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That's a really great point!

Comic, if you're still bothering to give a damn about this thread anymore (I think the overwhelming majority have shot down your reasoning) below is a link to a vid of Thomas Pridgen at the Moder Drummer festival. At 1:45 he makes a great point. Whether you're a fan of his or not, you can't deny he's got chops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72yH6HPhidM

Speaking from recent personal experience (and this is regarding my drumming experiences overall). I've been playing for about 8 months now, play on a cheap SP kit with entry level cymbals (I'm slowly upgrading it). Even with a lot of cheap gear, gear I've been able to work up my chops to point where it's "jam-worthy" in a sense. My friends actually think I've "found my instrument" (I've been playing guitar for 10 yrs). I've got the kit sounding really well (took some time to learn how to tune), and have a few little licks where my friends think, "what do you got going on over there?".

Now I've got a buddy (I'm not your buddy, guy... I'm not your guy, friend...) who recently picked up a kit about a month ago. A gorgeous black Pearl 6-pc Vision series kit, with A custom cymbals, Tama IC double pedal and the stand, the whole deal, all brand new top level equipment (no matter how much I've tried, the cat still hasn't heard of the used market). It's a month later and his kit still sounds awful and isn't able to keep a basic kick, snare, hats on all four, rock beat for four bars. In fact his neighbors have called the cops on him several times because it doesn't sound, well for lack of a better term... good. I know that from a neighbors perspective (I've lived next to a couple of drummers), that even hearing a person learn to drum is bearable. It may not be musical yet, but they're working on it. As opposed to someone who is beating the life out of a kit, and doesn't know how to play, which is noise.

My point though is, I'm taking the time to really study the art and craft of drumming. The rudiments, tuning, timing, touch, etc. Which is why I sound decent (and in my opinion decent is an over statement) on a crappy kit (at least every drummer tells me it's crappy). My friend hasn't taken the time to do any of that which is why he constantly gets complaints from neighbors. Cheap equipment + good techniques = good drumming and tolerant neighbors. Expensive equipment + bad techniques = bad drumming and cops at the front door.

Ultimately it's the drummer, not the drum set, that makes the music.
 
Sable said:
I have to agree with what most people have said: there are plenty of other great pedals that don't cost nearly as much (especially used gear), and there is value in learning how to play well on crappy gear.

That being said, I think we've all been guilty of making that "irrational" purchase (though I'm sure most of us would still think ALL of our purchases have been rational!). It didn't make us better drummers, but it probably did inspire us - and probably also gave us a truckload of joy knowing we're one step closer to achieving that perfect kit that pervades our dreams. So give the kid a break already and don't be so quick to judge his character!

comic_amusement, I think it would be more constructive not to approach your parents saying "I want _____, can you buy it for me?", but rather "I want _____, how can I earn it?" It'll show your parents you're serious about drumming, you're patient enough to wait as long as it takes, and you're mature enough to put in the hard work. Do it in steps - instead of asking what it'll take to earn $600 all at once from them, start with $100, then another $100, etc. It's possible that before you reach your goal, you might not want the Axis pedals, or you might find them used for much cheaper.

And then, when you've got your sights set on that next piece of dream gear, you'll know how to get it - I mean, earn it.
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that is very good advice.

i remember trying the axis and jumping on it.
i havent really tried anything else extensively. (my fault)
and yes, "the perfect kit" is a big thing for me.

next time im at GC, im going to seriously look at other pedals.

and i should have mentioned (or written it correctly the first time, Doh!) that i did approach my parents with the "how can i earn this" but asked it like "can you buy this for me"

thanks.

EDIT: i had played for so long on crappy gear and drums that i am a real hardware geek, and i like having everything professuional (spell check didnt correct that!?) and solid. i still have alot of crappy gear on my kit.
 
comic amusement said:
that is very good advice.

i remember trying the axis and jumping on it.
i havent really tried anything else extensively. (my fault)
and yes, "the perfect kit" is a big thing for me.

next time im at GC, im going to seriously look at other pedals.

and i should have mentioned (or written it correctly the first time, Doh!) that i did approach my parents with the "how can i earn this" but asked it like "can you buy this for me"

thanks.

EDIT: i had played for so long on crappy gear and drums that i am a real hardware geek, and i like having everything professuional (spell check didnt correct that!?) and solid. i still have alot of crappy gear on my kit.
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Glad to hear you taking a bit of a more mature stance on this. I think the fact that you haven't tried any other pedals out that much is probably what made you decide you NEEDed the axis... just go play on all the pedals they have and see if you can't find other suitable pedals. and yeah... saying "how can i earn this" would have been a little better then "how do i convince them to buy it for me"... i think that really gave a lot of us a bad impression of where you were coming from.
Good luck getting a good pedal that will take your playing to the next level.
 
JT1 said:
Yes i will take some and post them. The design of the pedal is so that you set up the kit with the bass drum directly in front of you. This allows you to bring the hi-hat in closer and have your rack toms directly in front of you rather than reaching to one side to hit them. It's extremely useful for balancing out your kit. But the best thing is... NO LINKAGE!!
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These Shleishman pedals look cool. What are they like to transport?
 
Buy used. I tried out an axis at music go round. Really smooth, looked nice. Nothing broken. $200!

I didn't buy it (not much money at the time) But c'mon if I asked my dad he would probably have bought it and i could have payed him back... immediately after we got home. (I did particularly want one at the time).
 
What is the point of progressing through pedals?

Saves so much more money going from crap to best pedal.

I know what people say, "Its the player who controls the pedal", if you have a crappy Tama HP200T pedal which has a extruciatingly laggy drive-shaft (that's what happens to me and thanks to those universal joints) of course I would want to get an awesome pedal, I don't want something with the same problem.

Also when it comes to repairing, sometimes one has to draw the line and say "stuff it", if my pedal is that crap there is no point in repairing it. What happens when the repairs cost more than the pedal itself? No-one benefits.

Currently considering buying Pearl Demondrives or Sleishman Twin-Pedal, but both hella expensive, that is an obstacle. I wouldn't go to Iron Cobras because the drive-shaft is exactly the same as the one I have (which lags like half-a-freaking-second behind my foot going down).

...but try, sometimes is best to sit down and try the different pedals in shop, sometimes you might find a better but less expensive pedal without the problems you're concerned with. Unfortunately, I'm currently too young to have a job, so saving up is just pointless and even if the money problem is solved, the nearest place to buy drum gear is quite some distance away, and with my life there never seems to be the right time (even on the weekends) to go somewhere to try out pedals.
 
My first thought, is that it seems you don't need a $600 pedal. I mean, I've played the PDP and Sound Percussion pedals at GC and I know how much they suck, but I use a DW7002 I got for $219, and it's great, 10 times better than the PDPs, nice and smooth, both pedals even.

And yes, the drummer will make a much greater difference than the gear. Reminds me of a video I saw on youtube of Dave Grohl playing a little kids set that was about 1/3 size of a regular set, and he made it rock! Haha. But yeah, a great drummer will play a lot better on a cheap pedal than a mediocre drummer on Axis pedals.

Anyways, I do agree with needing a better pedal, but I don't think $600 is the way to go. I'd go with a DW or Iron Cobra for half the price or less. If you really NEED Axis pedals, go used.



Also, not sure how old you are, but get a job if you don't have one. I can tell you from experience (and thousands of dollars of music gear) that it feels so much better playing a new piece of equipment that you earned and bought yourself. I'm 18, and I've been working 2 jobs at a time since I was 12. A few months ago I got a job making $17 an hour, so now I (finally) only have one job, so I have more time to play, practice, and jam. But if you don't already have one, get a job and work towards earning it yourself. Before you know it, you'd have enough for whatever pedal you want!
 
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