Sloppy fills

rogue_drummer

Gold Member
Not to sound too critical, but has anyone ever been less than impressed with a local drummer you've seen in your city playing live with his/her band?

I'm referring to the local cats who play in local bands and are billed by others' word-of-mouth as being so good, only see and hear them play live it leaves you with an empty feeling.

Ever since 2009 I've heard of this local drummer named Ed (not his real name) as being so good and who "plays with everyone" and "you've got to hear this guy, he's great". So I get an invite from a guitar player friend of mine that will be in town and playing at Club "XYZ", and this drummer Ed guy will be playing drums. So the wife is out of town for the weekend and I decide to go and listen to the band and have a few cold ones.

Let me say, from the start the band sounds great. Great sound, great mix, great songs. The drummer is good - so long as he stays in the pocket - and doesn't venture any but the most basic of snare fills. To say his drum set snare and tom fills were sloppy is an understatement. The rest of the band was fantastic.

First few songs he did this to I thought he just needed to get warmed up. Nerves or something. No biggie. We all need that from time to time.

As the night wore on, I realized that is how he plays. Sloppy fills. Granted his pocket is great and solid. Great hat, ride and snare grooves, but man, those fills would make a beginner cringe.

Anyway, I may be overly critical, but I just thought it a bit odd. So I drove home that night thinking "I'm doing okay with my playing." No worries. Ha!
 
Maybe he's like Moon. Lots of people (drummers included) called his drumming sloppy. Probably no other terminology invented yet. However if you listen to what he did, it makes perfect sense. It's just not the "norm". Moon once said "I'm the best Keith Moon style drummer in the world." Maybe "Ed" is the best "Ed" style drummer in the world. Then again, maybe he's just sloppy.....
 
I have seen this many times.

The drummer has a good 2&4 backbeat, but as soon as they try to play 8th, 16th or 32nd notes the rhythm of the fill goes out the window.

By the way, Keith Moon was a little sloppy, but the rhythm of his fills were great.


.
 
There is one song I did, floating around on the internet, where the fills were deliberately sloppy, because that's what best fit the music.

But that's not what you're talking about.

Way back when, I was playing in this bar band 3 times a week, just for the money. The band leader/bass player would have a flask in his pocket, and over the course of the night he'd get pretty ripped. And then he's get annoyed with me because my time wasn't wavering all over the place like his was. This other guy I knew asked to sit in, and ok, no prob. I knew this other guy's playing was pretty terrible. Well, the drunk band leader preferred the crappy player, because now both of their times were wavering all over the place in their alcohol induced slurring. So I got canned for keeping time too well, while they proceeded to have a slop fest the rest of the night. Which was fine, it wasn't like it was any great gig, and I taking steps to move on anyway.

But it goes to show perception of what is good or sloppy is up to interpretation, or at least based how many shots you've had. lol
 
This is extremely common, from my experience. I think one of the biggest differences you can pick out from advanced drummers to beginner and intermediate drummers is the use of appropriate, well executed fills that don't disrupt the groove. Fills and grooves should compliment one another, and not disrupt the overall flow of the music.
 
In order to play fills that work, you have to practice them. I see a lot of drummers who can hold down the fort with adequate time, but since they see themselves as just time-keepers, their ability to pull off fills comes across as under-developed, which it is.

And therein lies the rub: play for the song, stay transparent and out of the way of the others, and as Buddy Rich once said, don't play a fill unless it will sound bad if you don't. But fills are required, to varying degrees, in virtually every style, so if they've been neglected, are not thoughtful or practiced, they'll come off as weak.

Gotta practice this stuff and not sit back all complacent-like with the lame excuse that "Hey, I'm just a simple pocket player that gets paid to be the only non-musician in the band." Doesn't mean you have to be a showboater, but you do need the ability to deliver the goods when it's called for. And if you are playing a mostly supportive role, it's especially important to nail that fill when it does happen cos that sucker's gonna stand out either way.
 
I don't consider myself anything special as a drummer and I can be sloppy at times I guess, but as far as the local un-signed band scene goes, I generally feel better about how I stack up against the other guys after seeing some of them play. They might be great, but they aren't doing anything special. I think we watch so many killer players on youtube that it skews our expectations for the real world.

I started playing at 26 and I'm 35 now. I have two small kids, full time job and other hobbies. I practice when I can and try to pick up a new trick here and there, but after joining a band a year ago I realized that I'm going to enjoy the gigs a lot more if I don't try to get fancy and just hit the spots cleanly and in the pocket, making sure the song sounds great. The guy who plays drums for Axl & Roses said in an interview that if someone tells you after the show that you're a great drummer you over-played. That's gonna be a case by case basis, but I took it to heart.

And in all reality, almost no one in the audience will know if you're sloppy or not, so it's all good..lol
 
I listen to the music rather than the drumming. I'm just not a good enough drummer to go super critique on anyone else's drumming.

Plus, who knows what another drummers stories are...there may be reasons he's a little sloppy on occasions. Maybe he's tired after long shifts, maybe he's only been playing drums a few weeks. Who knows.

I'd hate the idea, when I came back to drumming after a decade hiatus and we nabbed a gig in the first few weeks after forming the band, when we were all as ropey as f**k, of some smart Alec in the audience thinking "ooo he's sloppy"
 
I listen to the music rather than the drumming. I'm just not a good enough drummer to go super critique on anyone else's drumming.

Plus, who knows what another drummers stories are...there may be reasons he's a little sloppy on occasions. Maybe he's tired after long shifts, maybe he's only been playing drums a few weeks. Who knows.

I'd hate the idea, when I came back to drumming after a decade hiatus and we nabbed a gig in the first few weeks after forming the band, when we were all as ropey as f**k, of some smart Alec in the audience thinking "ooo he's sloppy"

I presume every drummer is more skilled than I am, and they probably usually are. I love to see musicians support one another. The frontman for the band we're playing with this weekend has basically been solely responsible for getting us into that city's music scene. Very nice of him.

As far as other players go, anymore, I just listen to them to see if there's anything I can steal..lol
 
I've seen this. Drummers that go to execute a fill and tank it, it sounds sloppy or just not great.

I've been to shows with pals or talked to friends about a particular local so-and-so who is a "terrific drummer" and I'll watch the dude or dudette and you can see that he/she is just not pulling it off 100%. They might have a good meter but sloppy on fast rolls and fills. Yet, my pals or others will call them a "fantastic drummer, so good". I'm of the opinion that some people listen with their Eyes. And a cool kit and a nice dressed drummer with the "look" with tons of energy will dazzle people -- even though they might be sloppy at times.
 
Being sloppy can be forgiven if the time doesn't lose or gain any rate of flow. Of course it's best not to be sloppy. If being sloppy sets the time on a new course, that's generally what we want to avoid right?
 
I think everyone has a different level of skill - keeping time or fills. Comparing yourself with others tends to be a slippery slope that really serves no purpose. I enjoy listening to any drummer as I learn something whether they have been playing for 2 weeks or 20 years.
 
I enjoy listening to any drummer as I learn something whether they have been playing for 2 weeks or 20 years.

Great statement. I think best to remain positive, and ya to learn from somebody who is not doing it right just as much as soembody who really is doing it well.

As for other bandmates, friends , general public saying how "great a drummer that Ed is", best to just smile to ourselves and know the truth.
 
I've fluffed more fills in my time that you can poke a stick at. Tons of them - maybe feeling a tad tight (or worse, you know another drummer is watching) and your limbs are set in position for the backbeat you've been dutifully providing for the last few minutes.

... Then it's time for the drums to do its bit but the limbs feel kinda funny and locked in and, before you know it, the fill's come and gone as a rushed, disruptive and sloppy thing.

It's one thing to practice getting around the kit, another to practice shifting smoothly into variations after playing long repeated passages.
 
Great statement. I think best to remain positive, and ya to learn from somebody who is not doing it right just as much as soembody who really is doing it well.

As for other bandmates, friends , general public saying how "great a drummer that Ed is", best to just smile to ourselves and know the truth.

I think something also being forgotten is that good drummers can also have slightly off nights.

Discussing a UK Subs gig post performance Jamie Oliver was explaining how he was a bit miffed that he'd made a few mistakes and his triplets had been a bit 'off'. And he really is a top draw punk rock drummer.
 
I know that transitioning from a groove to a fill is challenging for me.

I guess the only thing I'm left wondering is if Ed is indeed brilliant but OP just doesn't get what he's doing. I'm thinking syncopation, or odd note placement or a deliberately off sounding feel ala the j-Dilla thing. Just a possibility.

I remember tracking for a pop band I was in and the sound engineer just didn't get my reverse entry, behind the beat, flammy syncopated tom roll, and said I should play a "normal" fill.
 
I listen to the music rather than the drumming. I'm just not a good enough drummer to go super critique on anyone else's drumming.

Plus, who knows what another drummers stories are...there may be reasons he's a little sloppy on occasions. Maybe he's tired after long shifts, maybe he's only been playing drums a few weeks. Who knows.

I'd hate the idea, when I came back to drumming after a decade hiatus and we nabbed a gig in the first few weeks after forming the band, when we were all as ropey as f**k, of some smart Alec in the audience thinking "ooo he's sloppy"

Plus 1 on that. I have never gone to a gig to see a specific musician, I go to watch a performance. A band stands or falls as a whole.

I am not sloppy, I merely add colour, swing and feel to the music.
 
Maybe he's like Moon. Lots of people (drummers included) called his drumming sloppy. Probably no other terminology invented yet. However if you listen to what he did, it makes perfect sense. It's just not the "norm". Moon once said "I'm the best Keith Moon style drummer in the world." Maybe "Ed" is the best "Ed" style drummer in the world. Then again, maybe he's just sloppy.....

Nail on head. Someone else said that all fills need to be practiced, and for most of us that is true, but quite often Moon was reaching for something he had never done before and had just popped into his head. Now sometimes it came off and sometimes not, but how brave and creative is that? I for one would much rather see a gig that was a moment in time and probably never repeated the same again, like the lucky few in Leeds that night.

Making something up on the spot rather than just putting together phrases and fills you have practiced over and over so there is very little room for error, now thats an artist.
 
Certainly it is better to be clean than sloppy, and we'd all like to be the kind of drummer that earns the admiration of other drummers with our super cool, perfectly executed fills. And, we can't rule out that he just had a bad night. But there might be another lesson here.

You've been hearing about this guy for years, and he plays with everyone in town. His groove is solid, but his fills are simple or sloppy. Does that say something about how important our super cool, perfectly executed fills are to other musicians?
 
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