Gretsch Renown...unfair to call it "mid-level"?

I have a set of Renown toms that I picked up recently to pair with a 70's era Gretsch bass drum for a nice "beater" kit. There are just some clubs around town here that I don't want to take a Sonor Designer kit to...

I'm really surprised by the quality of the Renowns. The materials and fit are all really quite nice. And so far, in rehearsals at least, they've sounded really great.

I'll be dragging them out for a gig next weekend and am really looking forward to seeing how they sound compared to other kits I've used (that admittedly have cost alot more).
 
I'm going to walk out onto thin ice here but I can stand the stress. My Catalina Maples probably sound as good as the Renown's after I sealed the shells and added Evans heads. I'm not crackers, folks. The sound is warm and full with just the right amount of sustain. These are supposed to be intermediate kits but the sound I have achieved is pure pro. Not too many on the ice at once, OK.

Different strokes for different folks! No worries. As much as I despised the sound of my CB kit with Evans Hydraulic heads, I had many sound engineers tell me that they sounded GREAT in the house through the PA system! Go figure!

Question: How did you go about sealing your Catalina Maples? I was pondering buying a Catalina Jazz drum set and sealing the interior and re-doing the edges. After all, it's the reflective, hard surface of maple/birch/bubinga/blah blah blah/whatever that gives high-end kits their "shine", as well as good bearing edges. I was going to experiment with it to see if I could make a cheap mahogany kit sound like an expensive maple one...
 
Vin, I had a very hard time rationalizing to myself why I was paying an extra $1000 for my Yamaha MCANs.

I had told the man I'll take the Renowns, but I had this last minute inexplicable change of heart and thought I'd go for a really nice kit.

My Yammies are incredible an I could'nt be happier, but a part of me still says "you, chickens#@* wimp!"
 
Different strokes for different folks! No worries. As much as I despised the sound of my CB kit with Evans Hydraulic heads, I had many sound engineers tell me that they sounded GREAT in the house through the PA system! Go figure!

Question: How did you go about sealing your Catalina Maples? I was pondering buying a Catalina Jazz drum set and sealing the interior and re-doing the edges. After all, it's the reflective, hard surface of maple/birch/bubinga/blah blah blah/whatever that gives high-end kits their "shine", as well as good bearing edges. I was going to experiment with it to see if I could make a cheap mahogany kit sound like an expensive maple one...

I figured out that some of the finest high end kits have their interiors sealed for resonance and eshtetic value. So, I disassembled all the drums down to the shells. Once bare, I sanded the interiors with a 220 grit paper to make them silky smooth. The shells were perfect by themselves, meaning no splintering or mixed wood like you find in the cheap kits. The bearing edges were also flawless. Once sanded, I ran a tack rag over the shells to remove any trapped dust. Finally I applied 4 coats of Teak oil to the interiors. The oil was immediatly soaked up by the dry wood and after 4 coats the interiors looked like high end finished shells. It really changes the kit from a could be to a wow, seriously. This is sort of the readers digest version but you get the point. I have no way of recording them to let you hear for yourself but I would match my kit against any Renown any day. Oh, almost forgot the most important point here. What do you think the " Silver Sealer" ,AKA silver paint does. Hmmmmmmmm
 
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I figured out that some of the finest high end kits have their interiors sealed for resonance and eshtetic value. So, I disassembled all the drums down to the shells. Once bare, I sanded the interiors with a 220 grit paper to make them silky smooth. The shells were perfect by themselves, meaning no splintering or mixed wood like you find in the cheap kits. The bearing edges were also flawless. Once sanded, I ran a tack rag over the shells to remove any trapped dust. Finally I applied 4 coats of Teak oil to the interiors. The oil was immediatly soaked up by the dry wood and after 4 coats the interiors looked like high end finished shells. It really changes the kit from a could be to a wow, seriously. This is sort of the readers digest version but you get the point. I have no way of recording them to let you hear for yourself but I would match my kit against any Renown any day. Oh, almost forgot the most important point here. What do you think the " Silver Sealer" ,AKA silver paint does. Hmmmmmmmm

Thanks! I was actually thinking that with the super lightweight shells of the Catalina Jazz kit, I might use a polyurethane coat on the inside. It would give the drums MUCH more reflectiveness and a little bit of weight ("Wow! That little kit sounds like a Vistalite!!!"--hee hee)
 
I've owned my gretsch renowns for about 1 1/2 years and I couldn't be happier, they're high quality drums and they sound gorgeous. All the drums have an extremely wide tuning range and have great sensitivity. I got 3 toms and the kick drum off of eBay for about $800, and I can't believe that I got such a high quality kit for the price. Even priced new they're an amazing deal. My only complaint is that I don't have the matching snare, which I'm sure is a killer maple snare.
 
I've owned my gretsch renowns for about 1 1/2 years and I couldn't be happier, they're high quality drums and they sound gorgeous. All the drums have an extremely wide tuning range and have great sensitivity. I got 3 toms and the kick drum off of eBay for about $800, and I can't believe that I got such a high quality kit for the price. Even priced new they're an amazing deal. My only complaint is that I don't have the matching snare, which I'm sure is a killer maple snare.

I've had my Renown Groove 5-piece 10/12/14/20/snare kit for 6 weeks and it's great. It was $1450 shipped new from massmusic.net, although the snare is backordered 3 months from Gretsch, so I picked up a used Mapex snare for the interim. The Gretsch tone is really sweet and strong at the same time, and even the 20" kick has great power. It's pro grade as far as I'm concerned, and I can't imagine ever aspiring to "trade up" to anything more expensive.
 
Vin, I had a very hard time rationalizing to myself why I was paying an extra $1000 for my Yamaha MCANs.

I had told the man I'll take the Renowns, but I had this last minute inexplicable change of heart and thought I'd go for a really nice kit.

My Yammies are incredible an I could'nt be happier, but a part of me still says "you, chickens#@* wimp!"

Heh...well obviously you've got nothing to be disappointed with. It's encouraging to hear that it came down to a choice between what is considered amongst the finest drums made and the Renowns. Wow!
 
I guess I know which kit I'll try to get next! I did look at Gretsch catalina maples and the salesman was saying they're not meant to take around gigging, ie cheaper hardware, lugs, etc. Then again, if you aren't throwing your drums around or jumping on them, what should go wrong? I need to play on a properly tuned Renown kit. I'm amazed how many love stories I read on these things!
 
They are a pro level kit with an excellent finish, build, and sound.

They are North American ply shells that are sent to Taiwan for assembly.

The USA customs are made in the US with N. American shells.

Someone on one of the forums did an A/B test with USA Customs and Renowns, and said the sound was very very close. I can't recall who it was now, but it seemed like it was someone who's opinion I uselly respected and agreed with.
 
USA Custom shells are actually totally different than Renown shells. I don't know about an A/B sound comparison, bit I've done a side by side shell comparison with the heads off. The makeup and materials are different also.

How so? I believe they're more alike than different. I know the USA Customs offer more finishes and nitro cellulose finish, but I believe the shells are pretty much the same.

I would love your insight if you would care to provide it.


Here's info from the Gretsch website on the USA Customs:
"Custom drums feature the original Gretsch formula 6-ply maple shell that has been applied for over 50 years. Each drum includes 30-degree bearing edges, our original Silver Sealer inner shell finish and either Nitro-cellulose lacquer or Nitron exterior finishes to give you that "Great Gretsch Sound."

Info on the Renown from the Gretsch website:
"Designed for the touring drummer who requires "That Great Gretsch Sound" the Renown series offers incredible tone by retaining classic Gretsch features. Attributes include USA Rock Maple shells, 30-degree bearing edges, die-cast hoops, GTS suspension systems and Silver Sealer interior finishes. Gretsch Renown projects a warm, distinctively Gretsch sound with an added contemporary punch.


I'm pretty sure my Renown toms have 6 plys (going from memory). Of course, The USA Customs could still be thinner or thicker than the Renown even with the same # of ply's.
 
It's been a while but I seem to recall thinking wow these are very similar at first, but upon further inspection thinking there were a lot of differences - mainly small details. You're right though, they probably are more alike than different.
 
Gretsch has always been kind of vague and inconsistent about providing info on their shell info as you can see what I posted from their website. How hard would it be to post shell composition, etc. if they wanted the info to be known?
 
From what I've been able to gather from reading various forums on the subject; the Renowns are stock Keller maple shells that Gretsch cuts and finishes in the US. Then they send them overseas to have the hardware added. Given that the hardware is already made over there, it saves on logistics as well as labor. If you've worked in manufacturing, you know that ordering, stocking, kitting and managing parts costs just about as much as the direct labor to assemble it. Since they probably sell many more Renown kits than USA Customs, this overhead savings probably adds up enough to make it worthwhile compared to doing the same functions for the smaller volume of USA made kits.

The USA Customs are Keller shells made to Gretsch's specs with the gumwood layers (which incidently are harder than maple, not softer, according to some wood hardness data I dug up from flooring manufacturers). Which are completely finished and assembled in the US. Except for the hardware which is cast and plated overseas as virtually all major manufacturers do. Folks like GMS and some specialist builders being the exceptions.
 
How so? I believe they're more alike than different. I know the USA Customs offer more finishes and nitro cellulose finish, but I believe the shells are pretty much the same.

I would love your insight if you would care to provide it.


Here's info from the Gretsch website on the USA Customs:
"Custom drums feature the original Gretsch formula 6-ply maple shell that has been applied for over 50 years. Each drum includes 30-degree bearing edges, our original Silver Sealer inner shell finish and either Nitro-cellulose lacquer or Nitron exterior finishes to give you that "Great Gretsch Sound."

Info on the Renown from the Gretsch website:
"Designed for the touring drummer who requires "That Great Gretsch Sound" the Renown series offers incredible tone by retaining classic Gretsch features. Attributes include USA Rock Maple shells, 30-degree bearing edges, die-cast hoops, GTS suspension systems and Silver Sealer interior finishes. Gretsch Renown projects a warm, distinctively Gretsch sound with an added contemporary punch.

.

That sounds like a difference to me. It's subtle, but there would be no reason for a subtle difference if they were the same.

Not that that makes the Renown any less pro.
 
From what I've been able to gather from reading various forums on the subject; the Renowns are stock Keller maple shells that Gretsch cuts and finishes in the US. Then they send them overseas to have the hardware added. .

???? Where did you get this?? That would be seriously ridiculous when you think about it. Sending the drums across the planet to screw on metal, then sending them back....

The Renowns are entirely built in Taiwan.
 
???? Where did you get this?? That would be seriously ridiculous when you think about it. Sending the drums across the planet to screw on metal, then sending them back....

The Renowns are entirely built in Taiwan.

Artstar - you are correct. Renowns are entirely made at an extremely high-end drum making facility in Taiwan. This facility makes Renown, New Classic and some upper-end "Full Range" snare drums.
 
???? Where did you get this?? That would be seriously ridiculous when you think about it. Sending the drums across the planet to screw on metal, then sending them back....

The Renowns are entirely built in Taiwan.

It may be ridiculous, but it's not out of the question.
The 1st generation of Pearl maple drums were indeed done this way back in the early 80s.
 
... yep, then they realized how ridiculous it was

Not necessarily. People's offshore predjucies are showing. You would be amazed at how the economics of labor savings on certain skill sets offsets shipping costs in large volumes. This is what I do for a living, manufacturing engineering. While I personally think the economics are a fallacy, (the overhead support costs are rarely factored in, only the purchase price of the sub assembly) it has increasingly become the conventional wisdom. The higher the volumes, the more the numbers work out.

You would be amazed at the amount of traveling parts of cars, appliances and electronics make before ending up in a finished consumer item.

Exactly what Gretsch is doing on each of their product lines (except for the entry level that they are not afraid to admit) seems to be shrouded in mystery. Understandable for any company selling things that they are trying to maintain a quality reputation for given the hue and cry if some internet expert discovers that they are indeed not being handcrafted by elves in a secluded cottage somewhere in the Northeast United States (or a Bavarian forest) and decides to save everyone from themselves by announcing to the world that their cherished quality product has been transfered to some "3rd world" factory full of child slave labor.

FWIW, I have been to, surveyed, and audited several factories in mainland China, Hong Kong, the coastal zone of Shenzen, Malayasia, Singapore and Indonesia. It took a few times to get over the expectation of finding downtroden laborers being whipped to produce more and more. The reality is that they are mostly 20 somethings faced with the option of staying on the family farm, bent over in a rice paddy or behind the family ox, or: working in a nice clean factory, living in nice new dorm buildings with others like them, wearing clean new western clothes, having cell phones and ipods and PS3's in their rooms, a choice or resturants in the company compound, ect... Kind of like what happened during the industrial revolution in the US. These youngsters are having a great time. And they know that there are many back on the farm who are far less fortunate. So rather than being downtrodden, they are living the "get ahead" dream. But they also know that if they screw up, don't make things right, there is a line standing outside the company gate of folks just waiting for their chance to live that life.

And, anyone selling product into the EU (which most of these factories are) has to meet the same ISO environmental standards as a factory in California. So the image of it being cheaper because they are poluting everything is also a fallacy.

It comes down to cost of living transferring into labor rate, and the costs of the bricks and mortar. And many times you can ship things all over the planet to either get a specialist skill here and cheaper labor for mundane things there. Some formerly low cost areas like Singapore have increased their standard of living that they don't count as low cost centers anymore. But they do have a large base of talent, are are close to other low cost centers. So it becomes worthwhile to do some simple things in Vietnam or Indonesia, and then ship them to Singapore for higher skilled work. And then ship them to Japan for enough local labor content to write "Made in Japan" on the box, and then ship them to distributors and stores all over the world who want 'made in Japan' quality.

There are so many threads on different forums with varying opinions of what Gretsch is doing with the Renowns. What I wrote was a distallation of Gretsch videos, promotional material, and the forum posts that seemed to be from the most informed sources and make the most sense (given that I don't have any preconceptions about the "stupidity" of shipping things back and forth across the Pacific.
 
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