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  #41  
Old 11-04-2013, 09:53 PM
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The Old Hyde The Old Hyde is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by Pocket-full-of-gold View Post
As I said, you can gauge the characteristics of the drum even with a Remo UT on it.....but you can bring that drum alive by using a quality head. After nearly 30 years of buying intermediate kits with stock heads I know that there's a remarkable difference between a Remo UT and a Remo USA. I've proven it to myself time and time again by making the switch.....to the point that I don't even bother with stock heads any more. That is how convinced I am that there's a difference. Never have I had to return a drum because I didn't like how it sounded once I put a quality head on it.....just like no-one ever sent back a car after replacing stock components with performance components. That argument is a bridge too far. It makes it sound better is all. It's worth swapping. This is the first time I've ever seen this disputed. Until now, I thought it was just an accepted fact. :-)
trust me, its the first time for me that I heard that stock heads are supposed to be switched out before playing :-)
I don't fully understand your car analogy but as you can see from my avatar, I raced this particular bike with stock pipes. I ran product and unlimited on this bike usually on the same day ( and won a ton of races, I was a ranked expert). My point is and was that Kawasaki spent millions on r&d getting the setting right for this engine and exhaust, why slap some headers on and think you made it better?
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  #42  
Old 11-04-2013, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Not like for like. Your "race ready" top of the range Kwaka already has better components etc than a run of the mill entry level 250cc roadie that was designed for a learner rider. There's no way they use the same pipes....or brake pads...or other like componantry, as they do on a bike that you pay a shite load more for. In the same way that top of the range kits usually have professional level Remo or Evans anyway.

At the end of the day, if you dig the sound that's great....means more money in your pocket. But I hear a difference......and a vast difference at that. I'm certainly not alone either.....a plethora of threads on the topic tell me so. I need no convincing that entry level through to intermediate kits fitted with cheaper Remo UT's, comparable Evans (or worse still, those horrific ultra-cheap no name, mylar things that look like they have a bit of white paint splashed on them), benefit greatly from swapping those heads out. Not only that, I would encourage anyone who has the coin to do so. The difference will be notable.
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  #43  
Old 12-05-2013, 10:09 AM
stellar92010 stellar92010 is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by v.zarate View Post
arent the foreign remos the same quality as remos from here?
I'm a design engineer in my day life. I imagine drum heads are like anything else that are ordered for an OEM manufacturer.

For example, if the drum maker puts ambassadors on, and orders ambassadors, i.e. cuts a deal with Remo, then it doesn't matter if they are made in the US, China, or on the moon. They will meet the specification for ambassadors or they aren't going to be buying from Remo for very long.

If they say ambassador but they aren't really ambassadors, there's a serious integrity problem with those companies, in fact it opens up a legal can of worms.

When I got my new MCX shells, i changed the top clear ambassadors to coated emperors, because my perception is that ambassadors ring too much on bright drums, and the stick attack sounds better on coated emperors. I put renaissance coated emperors on the batter of my snares. And left the stock clear ambassadors on the reso side of my new drums. They sound great on the reso side.
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  #44  
Old 02-10-2014, 09:03 PM
IJamEcono IJamEcono is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

I also play guitar. I can tell you this problem isn't limited to drums. Most mass-produced guitars come with strings best described as "adequate" since guitarists' string preferences are just as personal as drummers' drumhead preferences.

Sadly, I know a fair number of people who quit playing guitar because they couldn't make their low-line acoustic guitars "sound right." That usually means they couldn't play chords very well because the stock strings were stiff and thick so they wouldn't break right away. All they needed was a new set of strings but they walked away from the instrument thinking it was their problem.

I think about this every time I see a no-name luan drum kit on Craigslist with the bottom heads taken off the toms, duct tape and/or weatherstripping stuck all over the batter heads, photographed in a cold corner of an unfinished concrete basement.
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  #45  
Old 02-11-2014, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

On Sunday, my roommate bought his son an 20 ply PDP snare for his birthday. He asked me to tune it up. It sounded like a box. I had a new Emperor X laying around. So,I switched out the Chinese batter head. I thought that an Emperor X was a bad idea on a 20 ply drum, but took the chance. The drum came to life. Sounds great! I still wish it had a thinner head but the difference is night and day. I wish I had a better reso for him.

I'm actually thinking about getting one of those snares now. $199.00
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  #46  
Old 02-12-2014, 12:21 AM
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Michaelocalypse Michaelocalypse is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Depends on the kit you get. Higher end Mapex stuff comes with USA Remo heads. The Chinese Remo heads that came on the Meridians were legit. Some companies make their own heads as well.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2014, 08:15 PM
shredfreak shredfreak is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

What's the whole fuss about this topic anyways?

Everyone uses their preference of heads, so i'd be a waste of money to put quality heads on it in the first place. it's not cost efficient vs buying large batches of OEM heads for companies. And we're still talking about companies that make a lving off of selling products, i doubt they'll cut whatever profits they still have by listening to a small group of individuals vs the large mass that wants their stuff at a cheaper price.
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  #48  
Old 02-21-2014, 06:35 PM
TheHeelDrummer TheHeelDrummer is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

I completely agree with the guys that already suggested to send the kits with no heads and pass the savings on to the customers.

It should at least be an option I think. Its very surprising that no drum company has even tried this to this point.
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  #49  
Old 02-21-2014, 11:44 PM
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Winston_Wolf Winston_Wolf is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

How much less do you think a drum set would cost without the cheap heads on it?

$5? $10?

I'd be surprised if the bigger drum companies are spending more than a few cents per head because they're buying those Chinese Remos 10,000 at a time.
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  #50  
Old 02-22-2014, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Winston is right. I just bought a new Aquarian Hi-Velocity snare batter head for around $16.00 US with shipping. So for lower quality heads, bought in bulk, the cost the drum makers pay cannot more than a couple US dollars each (if that). It may actually cost more for the manufacturer to do special orders for the people who don't wants heads, which would probably a minority.

A simple solution. :-) If you don't want the heads that come on the drums, take them off and put them on ebay. Someone will buy them I am sure ;-)

I am not sure what most manufacturers do, but the drum heads on my drums were all high quality and stamped with the manufacturer's logo, which i personally think is pretty cool.

And I am in the same mindset as old-hyde....its the first time for me too that I heard that stock heads are supposed to be switched out before playing :-)
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  #51  
Old 02-23-2014, 07:36 PM
davezedlee davezedlee is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

they're thinner
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  #52  
Old 02-24-2014, 06:31 AM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

Here's the batter head logo from the Pork Pie bubinga/cherry snare that I purchased this past week. Has "Head made by Remo USA" in small print at the bottom. Maybe it has something to do with the line directly above it.

I couldn't find any info on the Pork Pie web site. Just that Remo heads are supplied. I'm guessing that since its a single-ply coated head it's an Ambassador. Ditto for the clear snare-side resonant head. My guess is that if Pork Pie wanted a couple thousand Ambassadors with the Pork Pie logo, Remo would be more than happy to comply.

Anyway, I'm going on the assumption that it's an Ambassador. It's been a few years since I bought one. I've been using Evans and Aquarians for a time. I hope that the coating lasts a little longer this time.
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  #53  
Old 03-02-2014, 05:30 AM
bub72ck bub72ck is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by MrInsanePolack View Post
It would be nice if drum companies offered an option to purchase a drum with the heads of your choice.

Say I want a 3.5x13" snare from company "X" and want an Aquarian Hi-Energy head. There is no reason that I shouldn't be able to get the drum the way I want when I order it. If Aquarian, Remo, and Evans supply heads to US makers, wouldn't it make sense for the drum manufacturers to have agreements with all 3? It should make no difference what so ever to the drum company what kind of heads the buyer wants, as they sell drums, not heads (yes I know some companies make their own heads). So wouldn't it make sense for company "X" to offer the drum I want with different head choices? It might actually make a consumer more interested in their drum if the buyer could get it the way they want instead of getting something they think they want after a head change. But then the drum may not be what they want, but how would they know if the ability to try a drum set up the way they want is not an option until after purchase?
This is what golf club manufacturers do and it's a great system. The "stock" set of clubs come with a standard shaft and grip installed (usually the most common type and stiffness of shaft and a common grip). However, you can custom order your set of clubs with a specific shaft and grip of your choice (along with some other custom options). Some optional equipment will carry an up-charge and some will not. If you have to pay more for a certain grip or shaft its usually less expensive than buying it off the shelf yourself plus its already installed so you can take your new equipment out of the box and its to your specs. I think it would be pretty easy for drum manufacturers to adopt a similar system on higher end drums made stateside. If sets are packaged in Asia it would be hard to build to custom specs and keep costs down IMO.
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  #54  
Old 03-02-2014, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by bub72ck View Post
This is what golf club manufacturers do and it's a great system. The "stock" set of clubs come with a standard shaft and grip installed (usually the most common type and stiffness of shaft and a common grip). However, you can custom order your set of clubs with a specific shaft and grip of your choice (along with some other custom options). Some optional equipment will carry an up-charge and some will not. If you have to pay more for a certain grip or shaft its usually less expensive than buying it off the shelf yourself plus its already installed so you can take your new equipment out of the box and its to your specs. I think it would be pretty easy for drum manufacturers to adopt a similar system on higher end drums made stateside. If sets are packaged in Asia it would be hard to build to custom specs and keep costs down IMO.
Absolutely. (If I'm not mistaken, Guru Drums do this for their customers. Great system.)
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  #55  
Old 03-02-2014, 03:32 PM
Yoshinya Yoshinya is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by lsits View Post
Here's the batter head logo from the Pork Pie bubinga/cherry snare that I purchased this past week. Has "Head made by Remo USA" in small print at the bottom. Maybe it has something to do with the line directly above it.

I couldn't find any info on the Pork Pie web site. Just that Remo heads are supplied. I'm guessing that since its a single-ply coated head it's an Ambassador. Ditto for the clear snare-side resonant head. My guess is that if Pork Pie wanted a couple thousand Ambassadors with the Pork Pie logo, Remo would be more than happy to comply.

Anyway, I'm going on the assumption that it's an Ambassador. It's been a few years since I bought one. I've been using Evans and Aquarians for a time. I hope that the coating lasts a little longer this time.
That is a 100% genuine Remo USA Ambassador. All US-made Pork Pies ship with Remo USA heads. Remo will honor requests like that if you're buying in bulk. My old favorite drum shop (RIT Drums in Grand Rapids, MI) gets Remo to print their logo (in addition to the regular Remo logo) on all Remo heads they sell.
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  #56  
Old 03-02-2014, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

That's fairly common, yes. Tama gets Evans to print special logos on their high-end kits, Mapex as well, I think Gretsch too. Memphis Drum Shop and Lone Star Percussion get their logos on a bunch of their Remo heads, I think, which kind of annoys me. It's bigger than the Remo logo, it doesn't look good, and I don't understand why it's relevant. Kind of like car dealers putting their names on cars they sell, except proportionally much bigger.
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  #57  
Old 08-06-2014, 07:13 AM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

This is a pet peeve of mine. I know that I'm probably going to change the heads but these 3rd rate Remo knockoffs are just a waste. If they put a good head on the drum you can always donate it to the local school or city band. I just recycle the UTs or whatever they put on the drum.
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  #58  
Old 08-06-2014, 03:36 PM
v.zarate v.zarate is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

One of my snares is still running the single ply dw coated head made by remo usa. It suppost to be of "ambassador weight". The coating is a bit different.
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  #59  
Old 08-06-2014, 08:31 PM
Winegums Winegums is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

My Mapex Black Panther Velvetone kit came with Ambassador Suedes and I was pretty impressed with them besides the kick drum which I immediately replaced with an EMAD. If I recall correctly Mapex actually put some effort into choosing a good head to compliment the limited run of kits. They lasted a good long time and I was actually happy they put a good head on the kit.

HOWEVER, the Pearl heads that came on my vision kit were garbage...
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  #60  
Old 08-06-2014, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

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Originally Posted by porter View Post
Absolutely. (If I'm not mistaken, Guru Drums do this for their customers. Great system.)
We do, & there's no uplift in cost :) Customers choose whatever heads they want. The cost of re-heading a kit is often forgotten by those looking only at the headline price. Certainly, high end kits should come with high quality heads. Regrettably, many don't, despite careful association branding.
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  #61  
Old 08-07-2014, 05:08 AM
drumming sort of person drumming sort of person is offline
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Default Re: I think it's time we address why stock heads are so bad

You should be able to order the drums with whatever heads you want on them. Or, they should be supplied with "blanks", or something that will just keep the hoops and tension rods in place, but isn't really a head that you would play on. Then you would order your heads separately.
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