So it's my turn to have a band quandry..

I'll try to keep it as brief as possible, but I felt the need to ask the community here for some insight and advice. I've been thinking a lot about this slowly over the past several months, and usually when I do things like this, it means it's bothering me and is not making me entirely content. So here goes...

I am the drummer in three bands in my area: two originals and one cover band. One of the original bands is kind of on a semi-hiatus right now, so they are out of this conversation. I also maintain a full-time, Mon-Fri professional corporate job (I am 34 years old).

For sake of story, let's call original band "Band O" and cover band "Band C". I've been in both these bands for about an equal length of time (~ 4.5 years) and am not a founding member but am now I guess, a permanent fixture in them.

Band C is currently enjoying a fruitful run playing 2-3x per week and often in very convenient locations, most within a 20-40 minute drive from my home. I make good money with this band and it pays for my gear, G.A.S, and whatever else I need it for in addition to my regular job. We have ZERO drama in this band and everyone contributes equally to it's success. I will do my best to never leave this band, it's way too much fun so far! The other guys in the band also have full-time jobs, so right now. it's more or less a "hobby that pays" but I would venture to guess if all the stars aligned and we could make a decent living off of it (like The Nerds or The Benjamins), we would.

Band O is starting to [slowly] blossom into a more recognized band, albeit we are in the NYC area where the music scene is so saturated. We have two albums on iTunes, we've been played on college, mainstream, and satellite radio, and I am the sole person who writes and performs all the drum parts. We typically play out 2-3x per month but a lot in NYC or out-of state. I contribute my home as our practice space every week too. I am the oldest in the band, the rest of the 4 members are in their late 20's. I can tell you from the 4.5 years I been with them, aside from the very first gig I had (which was a recording session for the first album which then lead to me being part of the band), I have never received a PENNY in my pocket from any gig or event I've played with the band. Not even gas money or toll money (mind you, it costs $13 to pass over the GWB Bridge into NYC from NJ!) in return. The most maybe, is a couple of free drink tickets or free stay in a hotel room over the years... I've never really made a huge stink about it b/c I know we get little from door charges and such. But what bothers me most is I'm spending my own hard-earned money to bust my a$$ in NJ-NY traffic and haul gear just to get to a gig where I get no compensation in return and play for 40 mins.. sometimes less! and sometimes to a 3/4-empty room! All of the out-of-state gigs too, I have received no monetary compensation. No $$ from any album sales (not that there is a huge amount). I also feel like I'm not being rewarded for any of my "creativeness". It's like if I showed up at my corporate job and told my boss "I'll work for free today". As far as I know too, none of the other members of the band are receiving money in their pockets and anything we get is paying for merch, CD printing, website. etc. I fully understand there are revolving costs to maintain this band but it's really frustrating at times... I'll throw in that lately, we have nailed some higher-paying gigs (upwards of $600-900), so any advice how I break a question to the others about maybe getting paid is welcome. I don't want to come across to the others as a money-hungry bastard (which I am not at all) but want some fairness moving forward.\

So really in short, it's how much more time do I gotta give this Band O a chance to hit it big and be able to follow my dreams of drumming in a rock band (be it so 'typical' a dream, HAHA!)? Again as I've stated in the intro, it weighs heavy on my mind how much time, creativity, and energy I'm devoting to something that isn't even guaranteed in the long run? I'm not old by any means, but I'm not getting any younger

So I plead for some advice here folks, with Band O, do I continue to stay on this train in hopes that one day we make it with a recording deal and I get to grace some large stages and venues that my dreams contain? I HATE "What-ifs" but in the end I know I have to do what is best for ME and my life. I love playing the drums with all my passion and heart and want to do nothing else than to play for a living. I can't imagine some of you haven't been in this situation before!

Thanks for reading, and for your comments.

Quite simply, it's a personal decision.

Band-O is pretty much every original band. yes, I've in been in original bands with the thoughts of stardom, and there were record company showcases, record company discussions, and such. But two other bands there was no thought of doing anything other than the music. My last band, I formed with ZERO intention of making any money. I did it because I wanted the musical experience. I had some hopes it might break even, but it didn't, and so be it.

And while I've done paid cover band situations, my soul is happier doing originals. At one point in life, I was working multiple nights a week with a cover band. The cash was nice, but it got to the point that I realized, for myself, it was NOT why I wanted to become a drummer. So I walked away. moved to LA, and pursued the original scene.

That said, now that I'm 40-something, if there was a cover band where there was seriously no drama, no issues, and I actually like all the material, that would be nice. But I'd still rather work on my own songs.

I was in a band very similar to your situation in Band O. Any money we made would usually go back into the band. There were instances, however, where we would have to take any money made and use it for gas, food, etc. This was never a problem, but it would always be discussed before hand, so as not to seem like "Hey, I need money, give me some" once we got paid. We were all informed and up to date on how much money the band had and where the money was going, and it worked out well as far as recording, CD pressings, merchandise, and so on. If you are all in this for the long haul, just talk to the other members. Who knows, maybe they have some concerns for not getting paid either.

DrumEatDrum said:

it got to the point that I realized, for myself, it was NOT why I wanted to become a drummer. So I walked away. moved to LA, and pursued the original scene.

That said, now that I'm 40-something, if there was a cover band where there was seriously no drama, no issues, and I actually like all the material, that would be nice. But I'd still rather work on my own songs.

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Yea, this is what I feel in my heart too. Playing covers in front of 75+ people every night is certainly awesome but 750+ with MY own music is even more awesome an accomplishment. On the flip side, yes, I do enjoy all the covers we do in Band C and of course, the brotherhood we have in that band.

MrInsanePolack said:

I was in a band very similar to your situation in Band O. Any money we made would usually go back into the band. There were instances, however, where we would have to take any money made and use it for gas, food, etc. This was never a problem, but it would always be discussed before hand, so as not to seem like "Hey, I need money, give me some" once we got paid. We were all informed and up to date on how much money the band had and where the money was going, and it worked out well as far as recording, CD pressings, merchandise, and so on. If you are all in this for the long haul, just talk to the other members. Who knows, maybe they have some concerns for not getting paid either.

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Yup, this is exactly how we operate in Band O.. Never a surprise but always feeling like we indirectly "pay to play" in some situations. The others do want success and to make music their life, we're all on the same page. I'm sure they'd like to get paid one day too!


I agree though, in the end, this is a very personal decision.

Welcome to the life of an original band. I have been persuing the same dream for 25 years. I would estimate I have spend tens of thousands of dollars on the band and recieved almost nothing in monitary return. What I have recieved is the joy of playing "my" songs to people. I am also one of the main lyricists in the band and there is nothing like hearing a song I wrote being sung to a crowd. I will continue to do this until I can no longer hold my sticks.

BTW, go ahead and pimp your band. You are putting blood sweat and tears into it, put the band name in the thread. If one person from this forum looks it up and likes it, that is one more fan you have gained with minimal effort.

Quite a quandry. I can't say what i'd do, and it doesn't matter, but I give you kudos for being able to hold down a corporate job (which am guessing requires you to work a little late some days) AND gig 2 or 3 a week in one band AND gig 2 or 3x a month another bands. How do you juggle all that? You're clearly great at time management, and/or are completely single, lol

Reading your words, it sounds like the cover band is more fun for you, and gives you the most pleasure. It also seems to be easy to deal with and pays better.

What's the best outcome with Band O?

That's the critical question. Because if they did have some success, what would you do? Drop the day job and throw everything into it?

If you doubt you would then you may have made your decision already!

Davo

I was thinking about this the other day.. as there are countless bands in the same situation; some play for peanuts, some play for the standard $100/night/member or they don't leave the house, others try for corporate gigs which are spotty at best and depends on the economic climate, or festival gigs.. and then there others that don't play at all publicly and lurk in basements creating recordings that they then try to hawk online, studio/session guys or all-round pros that are on call for gigs with various bands etc.

I think it boils down to entertainment value (are you selling something that people want to buy), competition (what have /we got that separates us from the rest of the pack) and 'supply and demand' (as well as what your current market/geography is like).

If you can take a good hard look at what the prospects are for your original band, or talk to others (friends, music biz people) and get a read on whether on not the band has what it takes then it will give you a clue as to whether it's worth pursuing (even for no money). Stop and think like an investor.. would you invest in the band? Is there a band member that's holding it back? (like... great band but the singer makes me cringe etc.).. or is the entertainment value just not setting the world on fire? You really need a bit of a crystal ball sometimes.. but also if you can get a package together and get in front of some industry types and get opinions, it might help you decide... also their feedback could be invaluable to take it to the next level.

Anyway you slice it, promoting an original band is a hard sell unless you have a whole bunch of factors lined up... like developing a 'following' for one thing - major - if you want to at least make money playing bars.. and get the ball rolling. Most of the original bands I played in; we still had to play a percentage of covers to give the listeners at least something that was recognizable and make the bar owners happy.

In all the original bands I played in, we still got paid to at least cover our expenses no matter what.. We'd take gig donations for things like equipment repairs for say a blown PA that we all used.. or if making a demo recording we'd chip in evenly.. but then you get into things like performing rights and songwriting/copyrights that can tear a band apart depending on the egos involved.

I think what it boils down to is:
- are you having fun playing in that band?
- what are the bands chances of success?
- would I have more fun, money and success with another band?

eclipseownzu said:

Welcome to the life of an original band. I have been persuing the same dream for 25 years. I would estimate I have spend tens of thousands of dollars on the band and recieved almost nothing in monitary return. What I have recieved is the joy of playing "my" songs to people.

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Wow, that is a long time! I take it your band is not your main source of living/income? Did you ever want it to be? Do you think it's too late for a "big break" (without knowing your age)?

opentune said:

How do you juggle all that? You're clearly great at time management, and/or are completely single, lol

Reading your words, it sounds like the cover band is more fun for you, and gives you the most pleasure. It also seems to be easy to deal with and pays better.

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I am both LOL!!

Well really, being behind the drums in any form of band and on stage in front of people gives me a rush and is fun. Also creating new and original music and then hearing it back all mixed and mastered is quite satisfying too. I do at times favor the cover band more only because it's less stressful, I get to play for much longer, and we get more people to come see us live. With Band O, we are often playing alongside other acts that night and it feels so rushed sometimes - setting up the [crappy house] drum kit quickly, playing the songs, and then before you know it you're whisked off the stage!

The girls in my band (think Dixie Chicks, there's 3 that sing) are often so stressed because of everything leading up to the performance (traffic, making sure fans come, merch table, making connections, singing, getting on/off stage so quickly) that it subliminally makes me stressed too.. and I'm one to rarely get that way before a show. I try to help them but they like do it themselves. OK THEN!

Davo-London said:

What's the best outcome with Band O?

That's the critical question. Because if they did have some success, what would you do? Drop the day job and throw everything into it?

If you doubt you would then you may have made your decision already!

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As moxman says, you kind of need a crystal ball to answer this. And truthfully, yea I dunno what the outcome is just yet and what makes this entire situation weigh heavy is that I'd HATE to throw in the towel only to discover X amount of days/weeks/whatever later that the band did finally make it and are on their way to stardom. Of course that would happen to me LOL!

To answer your question, I would gladly quit corporate America but only after very careful deliberation and planning to ensure I could fully support myself financially. I do own a home, car payment, etc. I would not go into it blind.

moxman said:

and then there others that don't play at all publicly and lurk in basements creating recordings that they then try to hawk online, studio/session guys or all-round pros that are on call for gigs with various bands etc.

I think it boils down to entertainment value (are you selling something that people want to buy), competition (what have /we got that separates us from the rest of the pack) and 'supply and demand' (as well as what your current market/geography is like).

If you can take a good hard look at what the prospects are for your original band, or talk to others (friends, music biz people) and get a read on whether on not the band has what it takes then it will give you a clue as to whether it's worth pursuing (even for no money). Stop and think like an investor.. would you invest in the band?

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THAT's the thing that also gets me sometimes! You get these "no name" bands or artists coming out of nowhere and selling hit singles and playing national gigs... while we're sitting here busting humps just trying to get people out to a show and support us.. and the usual marketing and stuff. It's like, "What the hell did they do to get where they are so fast?"

I agree with entertainment value, competition, and supply. I think our sound (and personalities) fit very well with today's modern rock/pop music. The supply part - yea. definitely harder b/c we are near a saturated market in NYC, both fighting for people's ears and attention.

We are indeed taking those next steps to get people in the "biz" to listen to our music and see if it's gonna pan out. We have a good manager who is helping us do that, and of course, the girls in the band are very good at marketing the band (I just look handsome and play hehehe). All kidding aside, we hope to elicit some responses from industry reps and figure this out - then I'd know for sure indeed. FWIW, we have been reviewed by some online zines and interviewed on SiriusXM and other channels very positively - but I'd really love to hear what Mr. Record Exec at Warner Bros. thinks of us.

Trip McNealy said:

...I'd HATE to throw in the towel only to discover X amount of days/weeks/whatever later that the band did finally make it and are on their way to stardom. Of course that would happen to me LOL!

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This happened to me, but by choice. After 8 years I was really burnt out, so I bowed out. 10 years later, they get a record deal. It took 18 years. I am happier as a drummer though, so it's all good. But if it is what you really want, stick with it, you never know when it is your turn.

I would consider what it is about the original band that you like. Is it a chance to use your chops? Play intricate music that feeds your ego for musicianship? The reason I ask is that making it "big" playing musician's music is extremely rare. And mostly goes to the very cream of the crop. And even at that, means that members are often taking big name tours to keep solvent. How many bands on Abstract Logix are surviving on those projects alone? If it isn't musician's music, then what is missing for commercial appeal? There's often a struggle between the two that ends up with neither fish nor fowl. And for that reason, doesn't go much of anywhere.

If you like the security of the 9-5 and the no-drama of the corporate band, I'd say you've answered your own question. There's a lot of dissatisfaction coming though about the original band that may be dragging things down. Cats in their 20's with stars in their eyes can live the life of instant mac & cheese and ramen. At some point you look at things with a bit more perspective and ask if it's really working for you.

I look at folks on YouTube like Dirty Loops or Funky Living Room Project and wonder with talent like that, why aren't they famous (with folks other than musicians). And finding out that many of the "no-talent" pop stars people rag on are studied musicians. They've just channeled that into something for the general public instead of a room full of ashtrays and 4 hip musicians in the back nursing a single drink and wishing it was them on stage.

Thanks Aeolian for the insights.

The old saying "with age comes wisdom" could be true in my situation - definitely in my 20's I'd have a more lackadaisical approach in this matter but now that I am older and with "big boy " responsibilities like a mortgage and stuff, I tend to be a lot more careful and planned with my decisions.

I enjoy the original band not so much for the display of chops but for the enjoyment of creating new music with my peers - and the hopes that someday, enough of the general public love it as much as we do and then we continue a reasonable career of putting out albums and playing larger shows... and then everything else that could lead to more opportunities for me - sessions, working with other artists, clinics, etc. True, I could probably do the second half of all that stuff without even having to be in a band.

I completely agree that our music needs to have commercial appeal, otherwise it goes nowhere. Which is part in why I wrote this thread - I've been at it for 4.5 years and nothing really huge has come of it yet... but some of the others who've replied above have been at it for much longer than me! Maybe I just don't have the patience LOL.

One thing I can guarantee, if you leave Band O on a Wednesday, by Saturday they will have a record deal. I don't mean that as a knock to your playing whatsoever. I mean it like "if only I had stayed a little longer..."

larryace said:

One thing I can guarantee, if you leave Band O on a Wednesday, by Saturday they will have a record deal. I don't mean that as a knock to your playing whatsoever. I mean it like "if only I had stayed a little longer..."

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No doubt Larry haha!! That's why part of me is still hanging on!

Trip McNealy said:

Wow, that is a long time! I take it your band is not your main source of living/income? Did you ever want it to be? Do you think it's too late for a "big break" (without knowing your age)?

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Actually I worded that post wrong. I have actually been in 3 different original bands during that time period, and all three had what I thought it took to make it. Music has never been my main source of income, but until recently I have always sacraficed to be in the location and work the hours that allow me to play in a band. Three years ago I decided to take a job based on pay vice music related things. As it turns out I found a band here that may be the best yet, so I guess you never know.

I am pretty sure the "big break" is never coming. But all I want is to play music, so my idea of success has definitely changed. We are recording an album now and just getting the album out will be a success as far as I'm concerned.

Trip McNealy said:

We are indeed taking those next steps to get people in the "biz" to listen to our music and see if it's gonna pan out. We have a good manager who is helping us do that, and of course, the girls in the band are very good at marketing the band (I just look handsome and play hehehe). All kidding aside, we hope to elicit some responses from industry reps and figure this out - then I'd know for sure indeed. FWIW, we have been reviewed by some online zines and interviewed on SiriusXM and other channels very positively - but I'd really love to hear what Mr. Record Exec at Warner Bros. thinks of us.

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Well it sounds like you are doing all the right things.. and if you (and others) enjoy the music and get along with your bandmates, then I'd stick it out! I always laugh that we get paid for moving equipment - and the playing is for free because it's just a blast playing to a room full of people and the joint is jumpin! The band No Doubt toiled for years and years and were about to pack it in when they got a big break and the rest is history.. and I know of others eg. Blue Rodeo where the drummer left because he had a house and family and didn't want to lose his job at the post office to travel with the band. Soon after, the band was charting at Number 1# (luckily the drummer had already recorded the initial debut before he left!), but they subsequently went on to record many big albums - and they are still touring and recording to this day..

If you have any MP3s or Youtube videos, I'm sure there are lots of trained ears here that could shed some light on your prospects. Good luck!

We golfers spend a helluva lot of money on green fees. 99% of us will never be PGA material or Senior PGA material. Why do we pay these extraordinary fees? For the love of the game. That's all.

Thanks guys.

I see your metaphor there Zephyr ;-) I love playing golf but the difference is I have no intentions of being a golf pro. But I get it.

Thanks everyone. We had band practice tonight and some of the girls want to expand the band to another guitarist and replace our bassist we had lost some moons ago. So it sounds like I will stick it out for a little longer I always see the positive light in things so maybe this is another turn in the road for us. And maybe it all it took was for me to get my thoughts out in wording, so thank you so far to all those who have read or commented.

Keep the comments coming for those who've been in original bands before, I'd love to hear your experiences and advice!

Be interesting to know what your salary is as 'getting a record deal' sounds like the bees knees, the top of the pile, but there's a massive financial consideration to calculate out.
My salary is half decent (early £40ks). If my originals band got a record deal which involved touring I'm afraid I'd have to leave the band as the sums just don't add up long term.

I'm in an original band and my situation is very similar. What I like about what we do is that we are essentially self sustaining. I don't make any money from gigs, it goes back to the band, but it doesn't cost me money to go to a real recording studio or buy new t-shirts, etc. We make enough to do all that stuff.

It does cost me gas and tolls, etc to get to gigs and of course heads and drum up keep. But I can deal with that.