Where are Sonor Force 3007s made?
- Thread starter henhog
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Naigewron
Platinum Member
PureRockFury
Member
They are made in China with German tooling and German trained workers. They are made in the same factory as Mapex, but use an entirely different assembly line and much better materials.
Before Sonor released the X007 stuff, they shipped a bunch of equipment from the German factory to the Chinese factory. At the same time, Sonor sent a bunch of German engineers to train the workers in the Chinese factory. The Force kits R&D was done in Germany. To keep costs down they are made in China. That's it! They couldn't be the price they are if they were made in Germany.
Before Sonor released the X007 stuff, they shipped a bunch of equipment from the German factory to the Chinese factory. At the same time, Sonor sent a bunch of German engineers to train the workers in the Chinese factory. The Force kits R&D was done in Germany. To keep costs down they are made in China. That's it! They couldn't be the price they are if they were made in Germany.
the_drum_dad
Member
That is correct. Sonor's first foray into China was a disaster however, the International line which was basically a Sonor badged Taiwanese luan stencil kit that was just horrible. The hardware was typical of the no-name kits of the time. Totally contracted out and a huge mistake IMHO. If you ever see these, stay away.
Then they tried some other brief attempts but it was not until the original Force 2001 with the tube lugs that Sonor actually set up a brand new facility designed and tooled by them. They shipped over the Force 2000/3000 tooling from Germany, they used a better grade of mahogany for the shells and laid them up in the CTLF format and used their sharp 45 degree bearing edge. They combined the drums with some good heavy double braced hardware also. These are the first of the Chinese Force drums and are actually a bit of a sleeper drum. You can pick them up quite cheaply if you keep your eye out. There is actually a video floating around somewhere that describes the setting up of the Chinese factory.
Everything Force 100x, 200x and 300x have been made in the same Chinese factory. Each subsequent version of these drums has had an upgrade in hardware, shell material and finishes. The 2 series ended up a a birch shell and the 3 series maple. The Force 3007 that you see today is the best of the best for Chinese Sonor. Excellent drums, very gigable and reasonably price (for Sonor).
Sonor had to respond with a Chinese drum to survive basically. There would be no SQ2 or S Classix today if it wasn't for the funding derived from their Chinese product.
Then they tried some other brief attempts but it was not until the original Force 2001 with the tube lugs that Sonor actually set up a brand new facility designed and tooled by them. They shipped over the Force 2000/3000 tooling from Germany, they used a better grade of mahogany for the shells and laid them up in the CTLF format and used their sharp 45 degree bearing edge. They combined the drums with some good heavy double braced hardware also. These are the first of the Chinese Force drums and are actually a bit of a sleeper drum. You can pick them up quite cheaply if you keep your eye out. There is actually a video floating around somewhere that describes the setting up of the Chinese factory.
Everything Force 100x, 200x and 300x have been made in the same Chinese factory. Each subsequent version of these drums has had an upgrade in hardware, shell material and finishes. The 2 series ended up a a birch shell and the 3 series maple. The Force 3007 that you see today is the best of the best for Chinese Sonor. Excellent drums, very gigable and reasonably price (for Sonor).
Sonor had to respond with a Chinese drum to survive basically. There would be no SQ2 or S Classix today if it wasn't for the funding derived from their Chinese product.
xmapex2009
Member
Sonor are not made of better materials than Mapex. The difference between the two is cosmetic. They sound the same and the build quality is the same KHS China. 22" Sonor 3007 bass drum has 10 tuning lugs and if it is of any importance Mapex has 8 lugs. The Mapex shells have 50% less holes drilled in them
Both have equally stiff snare throw off's and you wish you had a Dunnett R class.xmapex
Artstar
Platinum Member
???? Where did you get this info? Sonor "Engineers"?? A bunch of?? What research and development??
Artstar
Platinum Member
Sonor are not made of better materials than Mapex. The difference between the two is cosmetic. They sound the same and the build quality is the same KHS China. 22" Sonor 3007 bass drum has 10 tuning lugs and if it is of any importance Mapex has 8 lugs. The Mapex shells have 50% less holes drilled in them
xmapex
This guy, XMapex, is probably more on the mark than any of you others. By the way, I'm a "Sonor" guy, so I'm not dissing the brand.
Fox622003
Gold Member
You're right, we should all just get one of those starter kits that come with like 4 tuning lugs on the bass drum.
Fox.
PureRockFury
Member
From my old drum instructor that is Sonor's Product Manager and Canadian Artist Relations Manager. Scott Atkins is his name. You can find him in Benny's instructional DVD in the extras. You can also find him in the Canadian Clinic Tour video.
I would believe the guy I have known since 1993 before anyone on a drum forum.
Artstar
Platinum Member
Yeah, I know what he is referring to, however, that was only for the first run drums from the KHS/Mapex factory. The first incarnation of the thousand series from Asia.
In the beginning, they might of used some Sonor production tools/machines, but as far as I know, Mapex dumped it. The only thing Sonor had them do (and there were no "engineers"), was get the seams tighter on the shells. That's it.
The current shells are more or less identical to the Mapex stuff. Check it out for yourself in detail. There is nothing "Sonor" about the current line. CLTF means cross laminated, tension-free. Ever mfg has cross lamination, and do you think Mapex drums are cross laminated, but "with tension existing"? There is nothing special about CLTF.
If you own a German Sonor drum, and inspect it, you will quickly start to notice what is characteristic of a Sonor drum shell. None of those things are on a Mapex shell, although that does'nt mean they suckk.
QC_On_Vacation
Junior Member
Haha you could be right you know. You get more tuning precision if bearing edge quality is on par with the lug amount. The Sonor Force2007 (8 lugs) 22” bass drum will tune and stay in tune as well as the Force3007 (10 lugs) meaning that Mapex Meridian 8 lug bass drum would not get any better with extra lugs. The hoop and claw quality are as important as the amount and quality of the lugs. Add better bearing edges and ten lugs could give a slight advantage.
QC
QC_On_Vacation
Junior Member
No offense but I disagree. The shell is nine ply and cross laminated tension free CLTF exactly as in the earlier German S Class series. The last of the S Class series the S Class Pro used Chinese shells. The time was right for Sonor to give birth to Force x001 line of drums. Nine ply and CLTF is the normal Sonor shell build in the “better” German made drums.
If I wanted what Sonor Germany offers for example better choice of wood quality, power hoops and die cast bass drum claws etc I would probably buy Mapex Saturn and pay a lot less than for Sonor.
QC
Artstar
Platinum Member
Not entirely true. There was one period where KHS made the core shell, and Sonor actually finished it in Germany themselves, but not just finish-wise. I believe those are also the only units with "normal" horizontal wood grain.
Again, regarding "CLTF", cross laminated tension free, do you think all other mfg's have cross laminated, but "with tension included" shells?? Think about it.
QC, forget "CLTF" for a moment, and tell me what the characteristics of a German Sonor shell are.
QC_On_Vacation
Junior Member
Nine ply, cross laminating tension free and total acoustic resonance etc are characteristics that Sonor markets so there is a lot of what Sonor labels as Sonor in the China line of drums and it is of course all marketing hype.
There are no tension free shells but there could be shells with less tension and I am sure every drum company has the secret family formula for this.
The S Class Pro shell build I saw did not look different from the Chinese shells. I would say that it was the same shell that Sonor introduced a few years later as “full maple Force 3005”.
Sonor becoming more or less Mapex or vice versa sounds about right to me.
QC
Artstar
Platinum Member
Regarding what are German Sonor SHELL Characteristics. Honestly, the KHS really does'nt have any of them. All major mfg's that have been making shells for a LONG time have excellent shell producing ability.
What makes German Sonor so special?
1. The plies of wood come in a "stave" like fashion, which you will see if you look close on the inside or outside. There are "panels" that you will see. I confirmed this with Sonor that it was on all plies. NOT on Mapex/KHS drums.
2. Grain is done vertically which has been for decades. This is not by chance or accident. You probably know dw just "miraculously" discovered this and it touting as their own.
3. Shells are under-sized, meaning they are actually slightly less diameter than what is marked. Premier does this too (most underrated major mfg. IMO). I don't know who else. This creates a "timpani" type effect. NOT on Mapex/KHS drums.
4. A few others might utilize this, but I don't think it is as "specialized" because Sonor still uses ALOT of plies without the "glue" deadening the shell. Tama lessened their plies possibly for that reason, but,
Sonor uses something "special" in their "resin". This is not your old fashioned, just slap it on there, etc... drum glue. It is something else, and I confirmed this with Sonor. My guess as to why, is that it creates a bonding material WAY above the average hardness.
I have heard that animal hide glue is one glue that bonds over time to be as hard as wood,I have read sonor discourages re wraps because getting the wrap off can cause you to bring wood with it,one custom drum maker that actually makes his own ply shells says that the right kind of glue (and more expensive) makes a better bonded and responding shell.This is one of the few threads I have seen about drum construction that does'nt just say glue bad stave single ply good.Glue is a major component of a ply shell but rarely gets discussed.
Signals
Senior Member
The Saturn series shells were indeed undersized -- I confirmed with Mapex about 2 years ago after having a heck of a time lining-up the tension rods with the lugs during a head change. Perhaps they've changed since then?
Artstar
Platinum Member
Haha ! Thank you Eames. Believe me, this is the schit I am most interested in, and most of the time I bring it up, especially at a certain Sonor forum, they just dismiss it.
I mean, when you own a Porsche 911, should you have some idea of why the thing is so well grounded and efficient?
Do you know what secretly hidden in the finish of the Stradivarius.??