"Bad" technique on purpose

MLdrum

Senior Member
Hello, everybody. I have played drums/percussion for about 5-6 years now in various bands and settings (both classical, rock/metal and more jazz-type things). I have during the last few years been reading different subjects on the forum and finally decided to join in =)

Now I have a question for all of you professional drummers:

Have you ever played with "poor" or "bad" technique (so to speak) in order to get the right sound and feel out of your drums and cymbals?

I did this for some time while in the 2 (1 progressive/thrash- and 1 stoner-) metalbands I have played in. I got the biggest, fattest and most durable (wood)sticks available, turned them butt-side-out and just really pounded the drums and cymbals. No focus on rebound or anything, just pure power. In the start I got (sometimes BAD) blisters, but my hands eventually adapted to the somewhat brutal way of playing the drums (I made sure they got their rest and "time off")

You might say a sort of "Dave Grohl-ish" approach to drumming:
http://www.moderndrummer.com/drum-gods/100000004/Dave Grohl

Last christmas we did a reunion-gig (with the stonermetal band) and my hands actually started bleeding (from badass blisters) towards the end of our set. This was because i hadn't played this music this way for almost 2 years, and my hands had probably gotten used to only playing light jazz and such.

Well, anyway. What do you guys think of this type of playing? Does it actually make some kinds of music sound better?
 
just because you turned your sticks around and hit hard doesn't necessary mean you played with bad technique. i know some thrash drummers play with bad technique but a lot of them have very good technique. dave grohl is example of a hard hitting drummer who appears to have good technique.

and yes, i think that kind of heavy playing can make certain types of music sound better. aside from volume, drums and cymbals sound different when they're hit hard and that sound may be appropriate for some music.
 
This is a can of worms but, I think there is something to be said for 'improper" technique.

Technique is a very general word and one drummer may look at another and say "he has beautiful technique" and a drumming standing beside you may say...."what???are you NUTS!!!????"

Technique....and, the many variations of it...are in the eye of the beholder.

Some styles of music require different types of grip, posture, sound, vibe, etc.....
For instance....there is a video of me (can't remember which one) where I'm playing a sort of "disco" groove.

Well some of the comments were about "how stiff" I was......but, what none of those people knew...... I was going for a "stiff groove".

So.... what is "feeling" or Technique"?

It's whatever the artist wants it to be....and, that makes it O.K. in my book.

D.
 
Derek said it all.
Doesn't matter what anyone thinks, as long as it makes sense to you.
Rock on.
 
There are times when playing free music when I'll play the drums in an unconventional way to either draw out a sound or to make something happen that I don't have total control over. I don't know if you can call it bad technique, because it seems to serve its purpose pretty well.

One notable example of this is Billy Mintz- he has impeccable technique and total command over the instrument, but (in situations where it's appropriate) seems to be attempting to undermine that by playing in a naive kind of way.

As for your situation, the Moeller guys can play stronger than anybody, and they're certainly not sacrificing technique. Maybe it feels good physically somehow, or entertains your audience, but the actual musical effect you get by bashing is not always what you intend- the instrument chokes, giving you this loud but chintzy, superficial kind of sound. Also, a lot of your power comes from the placement of your notes- if your "bad" technique is causing you to play inaccurately, the best you can hope for is that it will add tension to the music (which you can also do on purpose using good technique); but as likely as not it will just cause you to sound weak. That's what happens to most people.
 
Derek (unsurprisingly) brings up a great point: what IS "good technique"? If a certain way of playing gets the right sound out of your drums and it doesn't hurt your joints, isn't that "good technique"? Isn't the good or bad quality of technique determined by what your intention is?

After all, I doubt that jazz players hold their sticks the same way as heavy metal blasters, and it's kinda doubtful they'll be on their pedals the same way either. The only way I'd call one of them "bad" is if they're doing it in such a way that hampers their ability to play optimally.
 
I once read a Kenny Arnoff interview and he discussed how when he was with John Mellencamp, John would give him a song and ask him to come up with several different beats and then John would pick one.

One day Kenny played a basic groove, with his left hand on the hi-hat, because it made it sound kind of sloppy and less refined than Kenny's normal drumming, and John picked that beat and started having Kenny do that more often.

I can't say I've ever found myself in that kind of sitation, but I can relate the OP in that some songs (or bands) really call for just slamming the drums without all the dynamics we're usually taught to pay attention to.

I was in an industrial-hard rock band for year, and that's pretty much all I did, was slam the drums as hard as I could. It's what the music called for, and it's what the band leader wanted. When that band ended, I actually sought out one of my old teachers for a few lessons so I could get some of my technique back! LOL.
 
depends what you're playing really.. i know guys who play punk and hardcore and have bad technique, but it suits the music. then again there is the hatebreed drummer who has pretty good technique (though they're not as fast as some other hardcore).

if you want to play with bad technique then its your own choice, i mean, no one can force you to do anything! that's why the drums are such a free instrument.. i wouldn't personally try and do it myself, but to each their own :)
 
Derek (unsurprisingly) brings up a great point: what IS "good technique"? If a certain way of playing gets the right sound out of your drums and it doesn't hurt your joints, isn't that "good technique"? Isn't the good or bad quality of technique determined by what your intention is?

After all, I doubt that jazz players hold their sticks the same way as heavy metal blasters, and it's kinda doubtful they'll be on their pedals the same way either. The only way I'd call one of them "bad" is if they're doing it in such a way that hampers their ability to play optimally.

Indeed, I think its only "bad" technique if its keeping you from playing what you want to play. Granted there may be "better" techniques that some may adopt to aid their style of play (Moeller for metal, traditional grip for jazz, etc) but it's all relative to what you're going for. Not saying that it wouldn't work vice versa, but that's up to the jazz or metal player to figure out whether they think it will make their music more theirs.
 
I once read a Kenny Arnoff interview and he discussed how when he was with John Mellencamp, John would give him a song and ask him to come up with several different beats and then John would pick one.

One day Kenny played a basic groove, with his left hand on the hi-hat, because it made it sound kind of sloppy and less refined than Kenny's normal drumming, and John picked that beat and started having Kenny do that more often.

I like the idea of the drummer playing a selection of beats for the songwriter to choose from. My guess is that 9 times out of 10 it will be the simplest one. Singers always seem to pick the beat that's the least fun to play ... annoyingly, they're generally right :)

I find the thresholds of sloppiness interesting. Some drummers don't have super-precise timing but it's close enough to sound great. If Moonie or Bonzo or Ringo were 100% precise, would that have been better? I think not. I don't think more looseness would have helped either.

I find something pleasing about slightly loose drumming, which is just as well since that's what I do :) I find it feels more casual, more good-time. Having said that, in highly syncopated music like funk, it has to be super tight to make the groove sit.

Technically, I've seen drummers play around the traps who look as tight as ... well, a drum. Shoulders, hunched, arms stiff - but they are tight (in all senses) and they rock! Somehow they maintain consistency gig after gig, even though they don't look quite in control - maybe through sheer willpower and concentration? Damn hard work to play that way, though.
 
First of all; thanks for all the great replies, and a good and important point made by Derek Roddy =)

dairyairman:
just because you turned your sticks around and hit hard doesn't necessary mean you played with bad technique.

As I wrote;
In the start I got (sometimes BAD) blisters
I clutched the sticks and we had to take breaks whenever I felt like it, because my hands would hurt. Wouldn't most drummers consider that my hands were hurting because of "poor" or "bad" technique?

But as Derek Roddy said;
Technique....and, the many variations of it...are in the eye of the beholder.

Some styles of music require different types of grip, posture, sound, vibe, etc.....

My conclusion anyway is that if it sounds good and I'm able to play it, I'll play it =)
 
As I wrote; I clutched the sticks and we had to take breaks whenever I felt like it, because my hands would hurt. Wouldn't most drummers consider that my hands were hurting because of "poor" or "bad" technique?

maybe, but it's hard to say. it might have something to do with turning your sticks around. it's hard to grip the stick on that end because the stick is tapering away from your fingers. you may be compensating for that by gripping tighter, which could make your hands sore. maybe you'd be better off playing with 2Bs or those really thick sticks thomas lang uses.
 
Some techniques...
... are healthier than others and they allow you to play for the rest of your life.
... look better than others for certain styles.
... are better for certain instruments (and sticks).
... allow you to play with more speed.
... allow you to play with more power.
... allow you to play with more control.
... allow you to play intruments at different angles / locations.
... produce a specific sound that someone could use.
... take longer to practice to perfection than others.
... break instuments faster than others.
Some people prefer tradition over progress.

As we can see, there just couldn't be a single technique that allows you to achieve all those things I listed and the list is far from complete. And most of them are personal choices and I won't argue with them if they know what they want and know the flip side.
 
As we can see, there just couldn't be a single technique that allows you to achieve all those things I listed and the list is far from complete. And most of them are personal choices and I won't argue with them if they know what they want and know the flip side.

exactly! great post. :)
 
Some techniques...
... are healthier than others and they allow you to play for the rest of your life.
... look better than others for certain styles.
... are better for certain instruments (and sticks).
... allow you to play with more speed.
... allow you to play with more power.
... allow you to play with more control.
... allow you to play intruments at different angles / locations.
... produce a specific sound that someone could use.
... take longer to practice to perfection than others.
... break instuments faster than others.
Some people prefer tradition over progress.

As we can see, there just couldn't be a single technique that allows you to achieve all those things I listed and the list is far from complete. And most of them are personal choices and I won't argue with them if they know what they want and know the flip side.
Agreed!

2020202020202020
 
As we can see, there just couldn't be a single technique that allows you to achieve all those things I listed and the list is far from complete. And most of them are personal choices and I won't argue with them if they know what they want and know the flip side.

I think we have reached a conclusion with this post :p
 
to each his own, but:

a) make sure to stretch and stuff before you play, if you're playing too hard then you can pull muscles

b) maybe consider gloves? I play jazz and rock too, and when I know I'm going to play ultra hard, I consider using gloves to reduce blistering
 
I've never understood how drummers could wear gloves. When I was playing loud gigs and getting blisters I tried golf gloves but I didn't like them because I couldn't feel the stick properly. I preferred blisters.
 
I had to improve my technique, since I almost got tendonitis. I still get some stiffness and itching sometimes, but I've started to warm up and stretch out before and after I play, which has helped tremendously(+ the improvement of my technique).

I've started to use finger-control and moeller strokes to play singles and such, and I play heel-up rather than heel-toe like I used to. I didn¨t get the control, speed and precision I wanted.

So in my oppinion, it's good to have a wide arrange of techniques to get whats on your mind, out on the drum set. If it doesnt feel good for you(and the same time doesnt put your health at risk), change technique to something that's more comfortable.
 
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