This Software blows every drum machine ever out of the water ...

... by composing original music indistinguishable from human composed music. Can the robot apocalypse be far behind?

So here's the article. It's REALLY long but well worth the read. I'll give you the one paragraph summary of it though.

Basically, a composer has created a software program that can simulate human creativity, in the form of composing classical music. At first, he started with a program that could compose in the style of say Bach or Mozart, and make pieces that experts couldn't differentiate from original Bach or Mozart pieces. Which is impressive in itself, but not terrifying.

What is both awesome and terrifying is that the next evolution of the program can compose entirely original symphonies in seconds, in its own unique style, based on combinations of stylistic influences from multiple musicians and composers, combined with a set of parameters that dictate some guidelines for the music. Apparently, in it's debut concert, the compositions were indistinguishable from human composed music.

I'm reserving judgement here as to how successful the program really is, because the article only provides two brief excerpts of the programs thousands of compositions. I think we need to wait till he releases the album it recorded using a player piano before I can make an accurate judgement. But just from those two clips, I am initially impressed. It's far more sophisticated than I thought it would be, or maybe hoped it would be. I wouldn't call it Mozart quality, but I'm not going to write it off yet either. I'm inherently biased against it as I already know it was composed by a robot and am therefore being extra critical. It is also being played by a player piano (I think), a technology that CERTAINLY is not quite up to the task of simulating human playing.

So two reactions. First: this is terrifying. Thousands of passable compositions in minutes. Indistinguishable from human composition. The creator has already been approached by a pop group to use it to help them write music. Can major record labels be far behind? This seems like the kind of thing corporate douchebags would be all over. No more need for royalties. Ever. Just program some P-Funk tracks, Lil' John beats, a touch of Outkast, and a smattering of Lady Gaga and you have an instant dance hit if you slap some lyrics about a club over it. Pop is already so derivative and safe today that this should be about a dozen times easier to simulate than full on classical symphonies.

Second: This is absolutely incredible. It's crazy awesome that we can make programs that can do this. If nothing else, it could be one of the most interesting social experiments ever. Certainly the most interesting musical one since John Cage's "3:16." Furthermore, what if instead of using it as a crutch to make derivative crap, we found a way for it to incorporate it into genuine song writing, using it as a creative tool, like finale on steroids. As a TOOL used by creative people it could enable them to do even more creative and exciting things. But would that cheapen the effort? Help artists to function at their very best and open them up to thousands of new possibilities?

I have no idea. And I'm kind of interested in your opinions.
 
When the program improvises with 4 other musicians and they don't even notice any difference, even after the jam session is over and the software is drinking beer and talking about ladies backstage, then I start to worry.

But yeah, I could possibly see somesort of music generator emerging in the future that would take care of the music in public places and customer support lines royalty free. =P Or even compose stuff for real people, I'm not against it if it's good. But I'm not sure if everything in music is replacable with software, the human contact...
 
When the program improvises with 4 other musicians and they don't even notice any difference, even after the jam session is over and the software is drinking beer and talking about ladies backstage, then I start to worry.

But yeah, I could possibly see somesort of music generator emerging in the future that would take care of the music in public places and customer support lines royalty free. =P Or even compose stuff for real people, I'm not against it if it's good. But I'm not sure if everything in music is replacable with software, the human contact...

Well it doesn't claim to PLAY music. Only to compose it ...
 
Well it doesn't claim to PLAY music. Only to compose it ...

I didn't say it did. I just said when I start to worry. If I still was into programming I would definitely try to do something similar. I'm sure the programmers are having the time of their lives. =)
 
I didn't say it did. I just said when I start to worry. If I still was into programming I would definitely try to do something similar. I'm sure the programmers are having the time of their lives. =)

It's just one old dude actually. But he seems like an awesome guy.
 
Well, if machines can compose and play like that then that's raised the bar a tad, hasn't it? :)

It's hard to imagine a tool better suited to helping composers get over creative blocks. It's easy to see how it could become a crutch, which is why he trashed it in the end. There's nothing wrong with the program itself; it was his excited misuse of it. Having a couple of glasses of wine feels nice but having twenty of them doesn't feel 10 times better. Same deal.

This quote is subject enough for a whole thread by itself

"Nobody’s original,” Cope says. “We are what we eat, and in music, we are what we hear. What we do is look through history and listen to music. Everybody copies from everybody. The skill is in how large a fragment you choose to copy and how elegantly you can put them together.”​
 
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This is very interesting, and a somewhat predictable development to some extent. I'm not bothered by it though. It's not that different from today's mass market music machine. Record companies either employ someone to write a "song" for their latest pretty boy group or mostly naked starlet, alternatively, bastardise some previously composed piece by inserting a beat box vibe and layering some rap line in there, or whatever. You get the idea. The only downside I see is that composer royalties will reduce. On the plus side, it may, in the future, equate to a useful tool for the performance focussed muso to exploit to the greater good. Like everything else, I'm sure it'll find it's place in the big scheme of things.
 
This quote is subject enough for a whole thread by itself

"Nobody’s original,” Cope says. “We are what we eat, and in music, we are what we hear. What we do is look through history and listen to music. Everybody copies from everybody. The skill is in how large a fragment you choose to copy and how elegantly you can put them together.”​

Yeah. I saw that. And I don't really disagree. I think that's actually pretty accurate.
 
When computers started to beat human players in chess did human stop playing chess? No, they just got a really good practice partner. That's how I see it.
 
... by composing original music indistinguishable from human composed music.
It's really got nothing to do with a drum machine.
Can the robot apocalypse be far behind?
The robot apocalypse. You've been watching Terminator/Matrix movies too much.
It's REALLY long but well worth the read. I'll give you the one paragraph summary of it though.
I'll agree that it was a long read. I dis-agree that it was worth it.



I have no idea.
I agree here.
... And I'm kind of interested in your opinions.
Seems to me we have enough humans writting crappy music, that we really don't need machines writting crappy music too.
 
I'm not worried at all. In the '80s I thought drum machines were something to worry about, and I was right- a large segment of music buyers now prefer drum machines to live drums and we've all felt the blow. But when one starts trying to outsource the creative process itself to machines, he/she will never get too far. Music connects with people because it is born out of the collective cultural experience of the listeners, and that can't be programmed.
 
I'm not worried at all. In the '80s I thought drum machines were something to worry about, and I was right- a large segment of music buyers now prefer drum machines to live drums and we've all felt the blow. But when one starts trying to outsource the creative process itself to machines, he/she will never get too far. Music connects with people because it is born out of the collective cultural experience of the listeners, and that can't be programmed.

Erm ... they figured out how to program the collective cultural experience of the listener here ...

My fear has passed now. I just want to get my hands on this program.
 
Well yes, but none of us hear the music quite the same way. There are as many versions of songs as there are listeners.

And that there is NO originality is a bit of an exaggeration too. There is in arranging those patterns that we've already heard in new, fun ways. Or combining them. But he's right that almost none of those parts are just dreamed up in our heads from nothing.
 
You've been watching Terminator/Matrix movies too much.

Woooooooooosh.

I'll agree that it was a long read. I dis-agree that it was worth it.

You are a musician and you really have no intellectual curiosity about an article that deconstructs music composition in a new way? Well ok.

I agree here.

Now you're just going out of your way to be a jerk. If you're not interested, don't comment.
 
people wouldn't like motzart's work even half as much if it was created by a machine instead. people love musicians with an interesting past who can put all that together and make a song, only a certain group of people actually cares 100% about the finished quality.

many hendrix songs were pure gold, but me feels that if he wasn't such a cool guy, well, he mightn't be remembered today. machines have no personallity. i'll start getting scared when they do.

but soon, maybe 5 or 8 years drum machines and music machines like that may become helpful for musicians, it will help them come up with new beats and use their HUMAN POWERS to make then sellable!

but then again, in 20 years the days of siting behind the kit, and slapping around until you get a nice new beat you have never heard of, may be gone, if musicians get the least bit frustrated they can just use a machine.....

how can they do this to the most human of activities and self expression, really it's complete bull imo. just trying to get praise from other boring science types, go away and learn and instrument rather that creating your skil in a laboratory. The lady gaga's of the world might say " oh, i cant wait until i can use it, it will make my job easier and i will create more songs"........well screw you! just go and research and hire the best MUSICIANS you can and go through the process.

people go to concerts to see the musician perform and show emotion, thats why they don't just buy cd's rant over
 
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Woooooooooosh..
Hey, you're the one asking "Can the robot apocalypse be far behind?"....not me.


You are a musician and you really have no intellectual curiosity about an article that deconstructs music composition in a new way? Well ok..
I have more concern that this guy's been getting "government grants/taxpayer dollars" for the last 30 years, to develop a machine that does little/nothing to further "the human situation".



Now you're just going out of your way to be a jerk.
Or, maybe I was just being "sarcastic". Maybe you shouldn't start threads asking for peoples opinions....if you're gonna be so thin-skinned. Maybe put up a header stating I wanna hear what you think only if you agree with me. So sorry to step into your world. 1000 pardons. I'll try not to ever let it happen again.
 
Well, this is horrible.

First computers, then computers that could think, now computers that can CREATE?! Why do we try to make computers human?

This will ruin music.

If unchecked, this will ruin the world.

Guaranteed.
 
The article seemed more about the guy who invented it then the software itself.

But it doesn't answer the most important question:

Can I get it as a plug in? :p
 
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