I definitely agree that you can't judge and entire company by one store. I do not think that every Guitar Center is awful. I am sure there are some, like yours that are genuinely helpful. However, I have never had a good experience buying from any of the stores that I have been to. Maybe I have just been unlucky so far. I would just rather shop from somewhere local that is known for their knowledge and customer service than go somewhere where there is a 50/50 shot of having a good experience. I do like the idea though of having one go to guy. I don't see any major purchases in the near future and will be moving to Quebec City toward the end of the year so not sure I will worry about it here in NC. Does anyone know any good places to check out in Quebec?
Pro Ludwig, Anti Guitar Center
- Thread starter tclem
- Start date
I definitely agree that you can't judge and entire company by one store. I do not think that every Guitar Center is awful. I am sure there are some, like yours that are genuinely helpful. However, I have never had a good experience buying from any of the stores that I have been to. Maybe I have just been unlucky so far. I would just rather shop from somewhere local that is known for their knowledge and customer service than go somewhere where there is a 50/50 shot of having a good experience. I do like the idea though of having one go to guy. I don't see any major purchases in the near future and will be moving to Quebec City toward the end of the year so not sure I will worry about it here in NC. Does anyone know any good places to check out in Quebec?
T.Underhill
Pioneer Member
Sadly that's what you can expect from some GCs, most of their employees aren't super knowledgeable on the gear and especially don't have customer service skills.
I find the same with Lowes or Home Depot. If you actually know what you're talking about you can stump the dummy pretty easily when asking for assistance so you end up ignoring them and doing it yourself. That and they have the same item stocked in FOUR different places in the store.
I find the same with Lowes or Home Depot. If you actually know what you're talking about you can stump the dummy pretty easily when asking for assistance so you end up ignoring them and doing it yourself. That and they have the same item stocked in FOUR different places in the store.
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Midnite Zephyr
Platinum Member
I've been going to GC for years and years. I've never had these problems that you guys are talking about. I go to the Brea GC and they have actual drummers that know what they are talking about. I've never bought a drum set there, so I haven't had anything I had to return from there. Maybe you guys just expect too much from these guys. Even my bass player had a bad experience there trying to get some help with buying a bass guitar. He said he waited half an hour for somebody to help him because he wanted to check out a bass that was high up on the wall.
I did buy my Les Paul Jr at a GC in Pittsburgh and they gave me papers that were for a different guitar because the serial numbers didn't match the number on the guitar.
I did buy my Les Paul Jr at a GC in Pittsburgh and they gave me papers that were for a different guitar because the serial numbers didn't match the number on the guitar.
steadypocket
Gold Member
Never thought I'd defend Guitar Center but by the OP's description, Ludwig shares some of the blame, based on my own personal experience. A few years ago, I bought a Keystone kit around the time they were introduced. The kit's kick left the factory with SEVERAL severely bent tension rods, among many other fit/finish issues. Trying to find a way to reach Ludwig customer service, at least so I could receive replacement tension rods, turned out to be a challenge for the most seasoned private investigator. I eventually reached a number for the parent company, who then turned me over to folks at.the factory. After clearly explaining my problems with tension rods, I received replacement bass drum claws instead, which required yet further contact. I received an apology and an explanation that parts were inadvertently placed in the wrong bin.
I don't mean to bash Ludwig, who eventually made things right with replacing my tension rods. For whatever reason, they've made themselves to be very unapproachable for their customers. Very poor customer service in my opinion. Perhaps their dealer network faces similar challenges in reaching them.
I don't mean to bash Ludwig, who eventually made things right with replacing my tension rods. For whatever reason, they've made themselves to be very unapproachable for their customers. Very poor customer service in my opinion. Perhaps their dealer network faces similar challenges in reaching them.
Mongrel
Silver Member
Just to offer some balance...
Although I have not had any warranty type issues on large purchases or a full kit, the guys at Guitar Center in Cherry Hill, NJ have always done right by me. Friendly, helpful, and even helped out with some "discounts" on a larger purchase of PA speakers I purchased. I've also had no problems with returns on opened items a few times.
Again-I haven't had a need to get warranty service assitance from them, but overall I have no issues with them....
Mongrel
Although I have not had any warranty type issues on large purchases or a full kit, the guys at Guitar Center in Cherry Hill, NJ have always done right by me. Friendly, helpful, and even helped out with some "discounts" on a larger purchase of PA speakers I purchased. I've also had no problems with returns on opened items a few times.
Again-I haven't had a need to get warranty service assitance from them, but overall I have no issues with them....
Mongrel
Again, and I repeat, it is not the norm to contact the manufacturer when there is a problem with the product! If you get a bad pair of Levi's at Target, do you contact Levi Strauss, or simply remedy the problem at Target? If you get a bad Remo head, do you contact Remo, or simply excahnge it where it was purchased? (Actually, as an artist at the time, I did call Remo... they denied there were any problems!)
Ludwig as a company is not unapproachable, it's just that they have a dealer network in place, and that's where products are purchased, and any problems resolved. If there is a problem resolving an issue, then it may be necessary to contact the Ludwig rep. If there is no satisfaction there, then a call to Conn-Selmer may be necessary.
If Ludwig was a company that sold direct, like so many small boutique builders that don't have dealers, then it would be necessary and much easier to reach them.
It's not that big companies aren't concerned with the end users. They have dealer (and sometimes service) networks in place for a reason.
Bermuda
Hey gang. My name is Jeremy Cole and I work for Guitar Center as the Director of Sales Programs. I'm responsible for Customer Service in Guitar Center stores and I'm absolutely sorry to read this. We should have taken care of you, tclem, right at the store on that very first interaction. I'm don't understand why we didn't just return the entire purchase and get you a new kit without any issues. Even if that's not how you wanted to handle this, we should have been able to contact Ludwig to rectify this for you ourselves, both easily and quickly.
Also, I agree with Bermuda. This was our issue to handle, not Ludwig's. We let you down and I'm sorry for that. I can be reached at [email protected] or 818.735.8800 ext 2115. I would love an opportunity to help.
harvestdrum
Member
Interesting you had a bent tension rod, me too. Something rotten in china I guess.
That, of course, is the root cause of the problem. If you want a local bricks and mortar store that has product in inventory for your perusal and knowledgeable, motivated sales staff, that costs money. If all you want is the lowest price, don't expect service.
Perhaps GC fails by trying to have it both ways - competing with online vendors on price while trying to do the physical store - and ends up with not the lowest prices and inconsistent service.
Bricks and mortar music stores, particularly local drum shops, make all of our lives better and more pleasant. Support them, get your stuff there if at all possible, and don't sweat paying a bit more. You are getting something for it.
And if you are one of these people who go in, feel and touch the merchandise, get advice, then go and buy on line, shame on you.
Go to pretty much any music related website and you find folks bashing GC. I admit that I've been frustrated there myself by low-competence employees, out of stock items, damaged items and such. However, I have also gotten many great deals on guitars, drums, and gear, and interacted with many knowledgeable and very helpful and caring employees.
For a little perspective, whisk yourself back in time before GC and the like. Music stores were small and poorly stocked, and your comparison shopping was limited to, at best, a handful of guitars (or whatever instrument) in your price range. My memory is a little fuzzy for those days, but I sure as heck don't remember any kind of return policy like GC has.
GC is not perfect, but I think they serve musicians better than what we had before.
For a little perspective, whisk yourself back in time before GC and the like. Music stores were small and poorly stocked, and your comparison shopping was limited to, at best, a handful of guitars (or whatever instrument) in your price range. My memory is a little fuzzy for those days, but I sure as heck don't remember any kind of return policy like GC has.
GC is not perfect, but I think they serve musicians better than what we had before.
Les Ismore
Platinum Member
so often not factored into drummer's purchase journey, post support (and price)
And a jobber.
One of the reasons is they don't want to be bothered dealing with customer complaints, they're time better spent figuring out why badges are being put on their drums incorrectly.
I'd say it 'should be' the norm to contact the manufacture when there's a problem with the product b/c most of the time the dealer can't do anything w/o going through the jobber, and they're so busy (jobber) trying to sell drums they're not concerned with someone's bass drum badge being on the bottom, the drum still plays, they can wait, got sales orders to fill.
If you get a bad head the only reason you go back to the store first is... if its easier, meet with no results, you call REMO.
Any company that cares is going to truly want to hear from the consumer, unless they're sooo big they don't care.
When you get sooo big you need a dealer network, someone else to talk to, deal with consumers. The bigger you get, the scope of manufacturing screw ups effects more consumers, the percentage of dissatisfied customers rises.
And a jobber.
One of the reasons is they don't want to be bothered dealing with customer complaints, they're time better spent figuring out why badges are being put on their drums incorrectly.
I'd say it 'should be' the norm to contact the manufacture when there's a problem with the product b/c most of the time the dealer can't do anything w/o going through the jobber, and they're so busy (jobber) trying to sell drums they're not concerned with someone's bass drum badge being on the bottom, the drum still plays, they can wait, got sales orders to fill.
If you get a bad head the only reason you go back to the store first is... if its easier, meet with no results, you call REMO.
Any company that cares is going to truly want to hear from the consumer, unless they're sooo big they don't care.
When you get sooo big you need a dealer network, someone else to talk to, deal with consumers. The bigger you get, the scope of manufacturing screw ups effects more consumers, the percentage of dissatisfied customers rises.
Even before companies got big, they had dealers. I don't know why the concept of dealers seems strange, or is the sign of company that's grown too big to care. Perhaps with the increase of small, direct-sales "companies", people think they can call any company's office to chat. Again, I cite GM, and problems with their products. They are resolved at the dealer level, not by going straight to the company. If the electronic seat adjustment stops working, you go to a dealer, not the factory. If there's a chronic and widespread issue, there are recalls, but again, those are handled at the dealer level, not by driving your car to the place of assembly in Michigan or Ohio or wherever. Even if you happen to live there, that's not how it's done.
Well, Ludwig is not a small company, and they don't sell direct. You can also count on them to be here in 2 or 5 or 10 or 50 years, which is not the case for 99% of the small companies out there. If you demand accessibility to the builders themselves, then you'll be limited to SJC, Truth, Liberty, Q-Drum, etc. who don't have much (if any) presence at the dealer level, and who may not offer the same kind of long-term support that the bigger companies and their dealers can. But, at least you can talk to the owners any time you want.
Bermuda
Andy
Honorary Member
Jeremy, even though your organisation is not present in my country, I just wanted to chime in & say thank you for having the substance to inject into this discussion, & accept liability. That's refreshing.
First up, most larger companies got so big because they have a dealer network & distribution. Just think of the size of organisation you'd need to fulfil all service calls, never mind a local presence allowing customers to try your products. Of course, all of this comes at a cost. By the time your drum kit has been through distribution & dealers, the price has doubled, but that's no different to the uplift in costs a manufacturer would have to pass on if they did everything themselves. If anything, the distribution to dealer model is more economical if you want the widest possible exposure.
However, non of this helps the customer if the system doesn't work. The dealers should have both the skills & the day to day autonomy to get things sorted out. When the issue is beyond them, they should have swift & decisive support from the manufacturer. Effectively, the dealer is the customer as far as the manufacturer is concerned.
Jon, outside of warranty, that long term support is pretty much limited to parts availability. No matter how well founded the company may be, with only a few exceptions, if you have an issue 3 years after purchase, you're on your own.
Les Ismore
Platinum Member
Effectively the the jobber is the salesman for the company, and any dealer they sell to is expected to deal with them first, b/f calling LUDWIG. So I wouldn't completely fault Guitar Center here.
Guitar Center doesn't deal directly with LUDWIG, they go through the jobber, like what was told to tclem :
. He didn't say he was going to call/deal with Guitar Center. So the jobber/rep gets to the problem when they have time, feel like, that's not Guitar Centers fault.
I wouldn't promise that Ludwig would authorize warranty service on older drums, but they are certainly an exception in terms of parts availability. They still make kick spurs whose design dates back almost 40 years, tom/fl-tom-leg/L-arm-cymbal mounts (the widely recognized P-1216-D) that go back 50+ years, and their classic lugs that date back to the late '40s! Need a replacement floor tom leg for a 1966 Super Classic outfit? They still sell it! Even those bulky triangular Modular mounts from the '80s are still catalog items.
Just sayin', they've been doing this a long time, and there are solid reasons they're still around (and it's not because of all the old guys playing vintage Ludwig kits.)
Anyway, I still don't understand the supposed need to contact the manufacturer when there's a simple problem that can and should be remedied by the direct seller. The idea that Ludwig had to be chased down because GC failed to get it done, is a very poor reflection on the persons at that GC store.
BTW, thank you Jeremy for stopping by, and kudos to GC for a terrific Musician's Expo today! I got to chat with some of the folks I deal with at various companies, saw some local drummer friends, caught up with Glenn, not to mention unheard-of prices that make the Stupid Deal Of The Day look like a ripoff! ?uestlove Breakbeat kit for $250? YOW!! 6.5" Black Beauty for $499?? YOW YOW!! 10" Gretsch Catalina snares for $59?? YOW etc etc.
Sorry...
Bermuda
D
drumming sort of person
Guest
I have been disappointed with Guitar Center pretty much 90% of the time. Useless, uninformed, poorly trained employees who never keep their promises and can't deliver on the most trivial of requests.
Pretty strange that Ludwig makes it so complicated to get in touch with them. I purchased a new Gretsch snare recently and had to contact them about a bolt that broke. I sent them an email, they replied within 24 hours, and had a bunch of replacement parts sent to me within a few days.
Pretty strange that Ludwig makes it so complicated to get in touch with them. I purchased a new Gretsch snare recently and had to contact them about a bolt that broke. I sent them an email, they replied within 24 hours, and had a bunch of replacement parts sent to me within a few days.
D
drumming sort of person
Guest
It may not be the norm to you, but in the age of the Internet it most definitely is. AND, most manufacturers or head-offices APPRECIATE it when customers contact them with their issues.
As for Remo, I have had problems in the past with some products. They have a forum on their website where you can post questions/issues. I did just that, and I was soon in contact with their customer service on the phone.
If I have a problem with goods or services, I always contact the source. I do the same when I have a GREAT experience with any goods or services.
I actually had a bad experience with Ludwig's customer service many, many years ago, but I wouldn't hold that against them anymore. Same thing with Drum Workshop, whom I have also forgiven and have redeemed themselves with very responsive customer service.
Any company that avoids their customer will not be in business for long. I'm pretty sure Guitar Center is close to the end. Hopefully some other company takes them over and revamps the whole deal.