Why is it so hard for the band to follow me?!?!

I Love when my Jazz band speeds up during the solos and then they blame me for it :)
The keyboard player is notorious for it. He speeds up during his solo and the bass player soon gets suckered in and off we go! When we come back to the head I make it a point to return to the starting tempo just to subtly point out what has happened.
 
Oh man, is this so true. I played a gig recently in which the singer was so far off the beat on a 6/8 slow tune I had to just tune him out. After the show, he was totally surprised when I brought it up to him.

Ugh....

Singer/songwriters seem to be especially prone to this, in my experience.

I think people who are generally used to playing alone feel that their time IS time ... so when they get in a room with other musicians they just do what they do in the room alone by default and don't understand how to listen .

it sounds crazy ... but listening... in the sense of the word that we are talking about... is a learned skill
 
Exactly.

IME, singers have the absolute worst time.

I experienced a similar thing at my church. I used to only use a metronome for a couple tunes, but the singers would always rush or drag. Not completely different from us as beginners; if they have a lot of notes to sing crammed into a bar, they rush through that and come out speeding up, if there is a lot of space, they tend to drag.

I showed my worship leader this when he had just the singers go through a song. I tapped along with them on my met. I literally showed him where they sped up.
 
It's not that they won't follow time, its that they can't comprehend playing with a set time.
If you've ever recorded with a click and found that you need to stop every take to remove the click out of each players phones until they only hear the drummer (who still has the click in his phones), you will understand that some players just can't play with a click. It screws them up.
When they get loose, they force the tempo and it wreaks havoc with the timing.
When there are too many overdubs, the drums which initially had a good feel, sound held back.

I can concur. As a guitarist, there are certain songs and melodic parts where having the click track in-mix is as annoying as having Gomer Pile sitting next to you clapping on the one and the three. Clicks make things difficult for musicians that intuitively anchor on the backbeat. It gets easier with experience.

To the OP:

What happens when your rhythm section plays alone/acoustic without a click, conductor, or other modern technology?
 
Not only do I agree with Tony on that some people don't know how to play in time, some people start rationalizing it. And for whatever reason, worship teams seem really, really prone to attract people with poor rhythmic skills.

I occasionally have to drum behind a husband/wife team; he only knows one strumming rhythm and has never strummed on beat 3 to save his life, and loves to speed up. She is a torch song singer who, if given free rein, could take a song that starts at 140 bpm to 65 bpm by the final measure.

At one point, trying to be helpful, I pointed out that "the band's" time was dragging (coincidentally, it was a vocal passage). Her response: "I'm used to playing with the youth band who doesn't have a confident drummer."

Anyway, to the OP: some great advice here. Just make sure you're rock-solid on your time. I would think you're really the only one who needs a click, but everyone else needs to be keeping the same time even if they can't hear a click. And the easiest way to do that, is to follow the rhythm of the guy who does have the click.
 
They are only listening to themselves. They have to learn to listen to everything. Peace and goodwill.
 
Oh man, is this so true. I played a gig recently in which the singer was so far off the beat on a 6/8 slow tune I had to just tune him out. After the show, he was totally surprised when I brought it up to him.

Ugh....

Singer/songwriters seem to be especially prone to this, in my experience.

Haha. I've heard this one too, from a prominent drummer playing with a well known artist and also from younger drummers who played with off-time singers in college.
 
So my worship leader makes me play along to a metronome live during rehearsals and services... Which I have no problem with since I only ever practice at home along to a met.. But there's just one problem...

The band doesn't know how to follow a drummer!

Ugh it drives me insane! Usually I just count off to the beat then turn the darn thing off ASAP because its so difficult... But sometimes I actually try to keep time by playing along to the met for as much of the tune as possible but it is soo hard.

The worship leader always tells me the band will follow my time-the metronome's time- but I usually lose everyone by the first chorus and by that time I have no choice but to shut it off and follow the leader/rest of the band..

Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.

Bottom line, it's really hard to play along to a click when the band doesnt follow you xD lol... I'm sure all of you have dealt wiht this at some time or another, but I just needed to blow off some steam xD


Play music, not math. Everyone sit down, listen to the tune, maybe even play along quietly. Get familiar with the way the curves are. Then play it for real.

Toss the metronome in that situation.
 
Which I have no problem with except for the fact that after each tempo-challenging go at a tune the leader looks at me and says "we sped up/slowed down here" at the exact spot where they all took off from my time.

That would be unacceptable to me. I would immediately put the click through the PA and tell them to play to it without me. Then point out what a crap job they did at each point where they had to chase the click.
 
Well just hold on a moment.

How long have you been playing? I ask because after playing for 4-5 years I played in a worship band and there were timing issues. Now I've been playing for 9 years - we don't have any timing issues.

Guess what - I'm better than I was!

I think a drummer with excellent timing can play with an authority that drags everyone along, or rather those that use their ears.

Davo
 
There are two main things in music that all should work on:pitch and time.

Problem is that most instruments focus on the 1st one and the drummer /sometimes the bass player focus on the second one.
Have all members of the band practice with a metronome by themselves. Give them a list of all the songs with the tempo written next to it and see if it helps .
Note: it will most likely take a loooong time for that.
 
That would be unacceptable to me. I would immediately put the click through the PA and tell them to play to it without me.
I did that with a band once when we were all miced up at a practice and wearing headphones. I think that they went about 5 measures before they went off from the click.
It came about after I asked them if they practiced with a metronome and they all said that they didn't. They were all surprised at how hard it was to stay with the click. It was a good lesson and we all learned from it.
I believe that tempo is the whole bands job. It is wrong for musicians who vary the tempo to blame only the drummer. We become the scapegoat.
 
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Since your in a Worship band, I can relate to you :D Now obviously, this is the rest of bands problem not yours, but it is still your responsibility to keep the time and make sure everyone is on beat. This is what I would do... Try to incorporate a very simple pattern that they can follow easily. For example, Try to use the four-on-the-floor pattern often. And make sure you are hitting it hard enough that the whole band can hear it loud and clear. And, since your dominant hand is usually going to be on the ride or hats, hit them nice and hard. I mean smack that thing! Make sure you almost always have something on 1,2,3, and 4. Even on fills(Well, mabe). also, Ask the sound guy if he can hook something up to where the whole band can hear the click- not just you. That is what we do at our church. We have what is called a loop (ooOOOOHhhhh aaaAAAHHhhhh). Basically how that works is you have to download a special stereo track, and the actual background track is going through the left side and the click is going through the right side(or vice versa). We use a 3.5mm to rca (R and L) adapter, and then use two rca to 1/4" adapters and hook it up to two different channels-So the click, and the background track are two separate channels on the mixer. So the audience can hear the band with the background track (not the click), and the band has the click coming through their ears. I'm sure your sound guy can hook something like this up, except in a mono setting (just the click). There is one downside though, The band has to have in-ears/personal monitors/earbuds. Otherwise you'd have to put the click through the stage monitors... And that would bleed into the main mix.... You get my point.
 
I did that with a band once when we were all miced up at a practice and wearing headphones. I think that they went about 5 measures before they went off from the click.
It came about after I asked them if they practiced with a metronome and they all said that they didn't. They were all surprised at how hard it was to stay with the click. It was a good lesson and we all learned from it.
I believe that tempo is the whole bands job. It is wrong for musicians who vary the tempo to blame only the drummer. We become the scapegoat.

Appropriately for this thread: AMEN!!
 
Sometimes the situation or the personalities are good enough to get you to persevere with dodgier musos.

When a band has weak time, it can still sound okay if the drummer plays strong, loud and clear beats like a human metronome. Big, fat, obvious simple money beats with a clear 8th note hihat pulse to keep them on track. Strong crashes on the one. Simple, strong quarter and 8th note fills will cue everyone for changes.

It's not exactly Elvin Jones or Vinnie, but simplifying helps the total band sound if the band is wobbly. Drama queen vocalists and finger-focused keyboardists may seem like they don't listen, but they will notice a big, fat money beat (unless they're really whacky). They have busy minds and their heads are not clear while they play, so if you simplify then they they can clearly see the relation between drums and their own lines.

Afterwards, of course, they will tell you that you were too fast or slow, depending on whether they felt relaxed or hyped at the time :)
 
Sounds like they aren't listening. "The time is in the room" - Thelonious Monk

I agree you should seek greener pastures.
 
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