Groove and studio recording

Serious question here. How does one get groove on a studio recording when you record like this"

1. Lay down scratch track with main players and get primary drum tracks
2. Rerecord rhythm
3. Rerecord leads
4. Record vocals
5. Rerecord bass

I like to believe I get into the groove when playing live, but when using the process above a lot of that gets lost due to all the new parts having different timing, however small. For example we still have a song in mix that has some timing issues that are not present on the scratch due to the rhythm guitar pushing and pulling the tempo.

This is just my own approach and I'm sure it's not the only one or even the best, but thought it might be useful.

9 times out of 10 I will record the drums without any backing or guide whatsoever. The way I see a track is the drums are the foundation, the very first building blocks. For me to make these as good as I can, I have the track playing in my head with the groove that I believe it should have and try to achieve this on the set. I've often found backing and guide tracks to be distracting in this respect apart from the very few bass players I have found that actually improve my feel.

Whatever approach you take, you need to be at your most comfortable.

Interesting question. Best case scenario...the drummers time and feel are so complete, that the standalone drum track is enough to make you want to shake it down.

I would think if a rhythm guitar track is laid over a rock solid, water tight drum track...any push and pull from a guitar would not stop the forward motion of the groove, because the drums are rock solid. It would imply a different feel for a second, but in reality the groove never faltered. Best case scenario.

If you are implying the rhythm guitar is making the drums sound like they're dragging or something, not sure what to say. That's just perception.

I record drums again while listening to the new rhythm guitar track (and other new tracks). Then I might copy and paste a composite drum track using good parts of the old and new drum tracks.

If you are recording the drums first and the track involves the whole band grooving, with deliberate push pull, call and response, playing up set dynamic levels etc. then it is vital to get the other players providing the guide tracks to really play like they mean it, using the sounds / set up/ tones they will use for real ; even if it's not their part being recorded.

I would motivate the others by explaining that a good drum track will really support everyones parts, but in order to achieve this you need this help.

Get your fellow musicans really motivated to give you their A performance for the guide tracks so that you have a chance to really nail all the phrasing, gear changes etc. no computer programme can fix this. It must be sorted at source....feel is everything.

Good luck

You can fix any groove problems with Beat Detective, but you probably can't fix the guitar parts with it.

Those micro timing issues are usually most evident in transitions. It sounds like the guitarist needs to redo parts, with an engineer or producer over their shoulder.

Your description of the process implies that everyone comes in and records cold. Unless there's music provided, that's rarely (if ever) the case, and even then, there'd be sufficient run-throughs.

Here's the process you failed to mention:

A. Writer writes a song.
B. Writer may create a demo (with or without live drums.)
C. Writer and musicians work up the song in rehearsal.

(B and C may be swapped.)

Then...

1. Lay down scratch track with main players and get primary drum tracks
etc.

It is during rehearsal that parts are massaged, so that the players are ready to go when it's time to record. The days of working up arrangements and parts in the studio are long gone (unless it's one of the musicians' home studio.)

In any case, nobody is expected to nail grooves and parts without a certain amount of run-throughs, otherwise, every successive part adds something different and tends to necessitate the re-recording of the part before that, and so on, until hours have been needlessly spent chasing everyone else's parts.

At some point in the process, before the red light goes on, parts are established. Nobody is expected to cook up perfect parts on the fly, and on the clock.

Bermuda

Bermuda has (of course) nailed it.

When I was recording other people, my process was always the same in the studio (well, most of the time).

Other than the writing/preparation stage:

i) Record scratch track
ii) Drum overdubs/corrections
ii) Re-record bass
iii) Re-record keyboards (if any, especially if they are being used as 'rhythm')
iii) Re-record guitars
iv) Vocals

To be more specific, I would generally record rhythmic instruments first and anything heavy in the bass part of the spectrum. Then I'd move on to the lead instruments.

It's not always necessary to record a scratch track. Sometimes the drummer nails it with a metronome, you clean it up (if necessary/appropriate) and then go through the same process. Scratch tracks are only really useful (in my experience) if the band want to go off-grid slightly and push/pull the tempo. It does help sometimes to have a whole band playing through a song to get the appropriate energy but it's not always necessary depending on the song. I also think that scratch tracks should usually be played with a click (to at least the drummer) so that you can make timing corrections relatively simply later on.

I'm talking about material that has been played many, if not hundreds of times in practice and a live setting than entering a studio to record. We tweak the material over a long period of time. The song I posted in the other thread was such an example. We have played it for almost 2 years, but added the breakdown about 6 months ago as it was 'lacking something'. Even the breakdown has been played 20 times live, the main song closer to a hundred.

Bass usually comes last for us since our bassist isn't all that great at bass. Really good singer and songwriter, but not so much with the strings. The rhythm and lead guitars drive our music so much more.

I can play with click tracks, but the other members have had so many problems. The bassist absolutely refuses, but that is a complete other issue.