Starting at the Beginning.....After 6 years

westicle

Senior Member
I've been playing for about 6 years now and I've never really learnt any proper technique.

I've recently been re inspired with my drumming and I'd like to go back and do what I never did in the first place - actually practice and work on some fundamentals.

I play matched grip, my left is WEAK and I can't decide whether I like playing palms down or palms facing each other. I'm leaning towards palms down as my left tends to circles less when I'm playing fills if you know what I mean.

I'd like to work on building up my left hand, independence and I want speed and accuracy in my hands for when I need it. I'm also trying to work out where to place my arms - I tend to have them out in front of me as I stress and tense to play a fast roll but my gut is telling me they should hang by my side.

So..........where do I start?
 
get a teacher mate, its worth the money. No such thing as a free lunch in this world.
 
This is excellent advice... And if you're at all reluctant to get a teacher, remember that you don't have to commit to regular lessons.

Even if you see a teacher for a few one-off sessions, it will be extremely valuable (assuming you see a good teacher).

Watch a lot of video of good drummers playing and pay attention to what they do (especially hand technique)

Set up some mirrors around your kit to give yourself a sense of what you look like when you play

Take video of yourself playing and analyze both the sound you're producing and what you look like while you do it. It is incredibly useful.
 
I mean, if you want to get good you need to be able to do loads of things, haha. You don't necessarily need a teacher, but you do need the right materials and foundational aspects of drum theory to get anywhere. You need to understand note values, and tempos, and subdivions .I'm no pro yet, I think my understanding of music theory is much better than my actual facility. I guess that sucks, but at least it sets a point to which facility needs to be worked up.

And the biggest thing is how much time you spend on it daily. If you spend 6 hours a day for a year doing the right exercises, chances are you'll be able to get creative with it and it complement other instruments.

I am inexperienced though and have never played with people but this is my opinion at the moment anyway
 
If you don't have proper technique and need to work on fundamentals, you must get a teacher.

You can't teach yourself proper technique if you don't know what that is. You need that outside guidance to correct any mistakes you may be making.

Short of that, record yourself (audio and video) and scrutinize every detail of your playing. Again, that's difficult if you don't know what you're looking for.
 
You can't teach yourself proper technique if you don't know what that is. You need that outside guidance to correct any mistakes you may be making.

Bingo!!

Especially with respect to the fundamentals. There is a wealth of good stuff out there, but there is also a wealth of misinformation and bad advice. The many avenues one can take can be extremely confusing if you don't know what piece of information is actually relevant to your current situation.....just look at your "palms down or palms facing' dilemma....this type of thing really shouldn't be a 'one or the other' situation. Both are beneficial, depending on the application. A good teacher will have this type of scenario sorted from the get go, you'll gain a greater understanding of what it is you're doing and you'll see improvements in no time.

You've spent 6 years plowing through under your own steam and by your own admission you're still lacking. Don't waste anymore of your time.....follow the advice of those who have suggested a teacher and do it now.
 
Like others have said, getting a teacher would be the first step.
But this detail also caught my attention.

I can't decide whether I like playing palms down or palms facing each other. I'm leaning towards palms down as my left tends to circles less when I'm playing fills if you know what I mean.

You said you were leaning towards palms down, which is probably what you should be doing. Playing with palms facing each other (or french style grip) is VERY VERY bad for the wrists UNLESS you're using your fingers for most of the motions. If you're using your wrists and playing french style, that is just asking for wrist sprains, tears, and other injuries.

If you are using your fingers, then you're probably fine.
 
And the biggest thing is how much time you spend on it daily. If you spend 6 hours a day for a year doing the right exercises, chances are you'll be able to get creative with it and it complement other instruments.

And if you spend 6 hours a day practising incorrectly?
 
Thanks all there's some great advice there.

Someone mentioned amount of time practicing....well I don't practice and I have about 4 hours of band rehearsal a week with the occasional gig thrown in.

It looks like getting a teacher is the way to go and then putting in some time practicing. That's exactly what I want to do - find out some exercises/stuff to work on and then make the time to work on it.
 
If you don't have proper technique and need to work on fundamentals, you must get a teacher.

You can't teach yourself proper technique if you don't know what that is. You need that outside guidance to correct any mistakes you may be making.

Short of that, record yourself (audio and video) and scrutinize every detail of your playing. Again, that's difficult if you don't know what you're looking for.

Although I agree with you, the biggest problem I find is that just about every teacher I've been to has a slightly different take on technique. Some say use index finger, some say use middle, some say first joint, some say second joint, some say more wrist some say more fingers some say more arm... It's a bit of a maze, and it seems as some point you just have to put the hours in and learn your own hands.

The biggest shock I got was getting Henry Adlers Buddy Rich Rudiments book/DVD. To my astonishment, when he explained striking the drum he went against everything most people seem to say and played french grip (or at least started sort of flat, and rotated his right hand *outwards* to make the strike, rather than doing the waving motion).

And that's just the hands... Then there's the feet: bury the beater, no don't bury the beater! Float on your pedals, no don't float on your pedals!

Sorry just having a bit of a rant, but it is confusing and frustrating sometimes. This is the problem when there's no totally right or wrong way to do something. So what's someone who is worried about practising the wrong way to do? Well - I can only think of one thing, practise them all! And then keep practising what feels good and seems to work.
 
Although I agree with you, the biggest problem I find is that just about every teacher I've been to has a slightly different take on technique. Some say use index finger, some say use middle, some say first joint, some say second joint, some say more wrist some say more fingers some say more arm... It's a bit of a maze, and it seems as some point you just have to put the hours in and learn your own hands.

The biggest shock I got was getting Henry Adlers Buddy Rich Rudiments book/DVD. To my astonishment, when he explained striking the drum he went against everything most people seem to say and played french grip (or at least started sort of flat, and rotated his right hand *outwards* to make the strike, rather than doing the waving motion).

And that's just the hands... Then there's the feet: bury the beater, no don't bury the beater! Float on your pedals, no don't float on your pedals!

Sorry just having a bit of a rant, but it is confusing and frustrating sometimes. This is the problem when there's no totally right or wrong way to do something. So what's someone who is worried about practising the wrong way to do? Well - I can only think of one thing, practise them all! And then keep practising what feels good and seems to work.

Very interesting thoughts Mark. I tend to go with what feels best with my body - sitting high and burying the beater just feel right to me so I go with it.

I actually had a single lesson with the guy I'm thinking of going back to about 3 years ago. It was him that put the idea of palms down in my head. Prior to that I had been watching another 'speed demon' friend play and he used French grip so I was copying that.

I guess trying a little bit of everything and seeing what feels right with my own body is the way to go.

I'm a little surprised but very interested by the answers I'm getting. I really thought the first thing people would suggest is rudiments.
 
Like others have said, getting a teacher would be the first step.
But this detail also caught my attention.



You said you were leaning towards palms down, which is probably what you should be doing. Playing with palms facing each other (or french style grip) is VERY VERY bad for the wrists UNLESS you're using your fingers for most of the motions. If you're using your wrists and playing french style, that is just asking for wrist sprains, tears, and other injuries.

If you are using your fingers, then you're probably fine.

But that means Tommy Igoe, and every player who uses French on the ride cymbal (like most do) are screwed. Watch Tommy on Groove Essentials.. he plays just about every groove on the hats using French grip (except when he's breaking it down and explaining it).

To be honest I don't agree with what you're saying. I think as long as you're relaxed it will not hurt your wrists. I find it is more wrist rotation than actual wrist bending. A bit like turning a door knob (as JoJo Mayer sais in his DVD).

Also watch some Buddy Rich, he uses French a fair bit, his hands seem fine in the 1986 DVD...

This is exactly what I mean - *vastly* conflicting info everywhere. One person saying French will mess your hands up, and then you see many old great players using it.
 
I find it is more wrist rotation than actual wrist bending.

Exactly. Correct French grip involes a slight bend to the wrist so that the action in the forearm is rotational. Played that way you could do the action all day long. Problems arise when guys keep the hand and wrist straight, then you lose the rotation and start bending the wrist in a way it wasn't designed to bend.

To somewhat try and adress your previous post. Do a degree I think you're right and your body is the greatest dictator to your movements of all. For the most part these "techniques" that we refer to, that have been given fancy names like Moeller or push/pull etc......they are actually nothing that needs to be "learned" per se. They are natural actions that the body is predisposed to anyway. Stay relaxed, don't force the body to move in a way it wasn't designed to do and let everything flow naturally and I'd argue you're well underway to "good technique" anyway. :)
 
Exactly. Correct French grip involes a slight bend to the wrist so that the action in the forearm is rotational. Played that way you could do the action all day long. Problems arise when guys keep the hand and wrist straight, then you lose the rotation and start bending the wrist in a way it wasn't designed to bend.

To somewhat try and adress your previous post. Do a degree I think you're right and your body is the greatest dictator to your movements of all. For the most part these "techniques" that we refer to, that have been given fancy names like Moeller or push/pull etc......they are actually nothing that needs to be "learned" per se. They are natural actions that the body is predisposed to anyway. Stay relaxed, don't force the body to move in a way it wasn't designed to do and let everything flow naturally and I'd argue you're well underway to "good technique" anyway. :)

Yes - the naming almost seems like a distaction to just getting your head down and working your socks off. I sometimes find myself constantly researching technique and every slight variation of an idea, rather than just sitting with a pad and trying to execute a rudiment over and over *as relaxed as I possibly can*..

I am far from qualified to be sure about such things though.... I'm a hack trying desperately hard to become a proper drummer!
 
But that means Tommy Igoe, and every player who uses French on the ride cymbal (like most do) are screwed. Watch Tommy on Groove Essentials.. he plays just about every groove on the hats using French grip (except when he's breaking it down and explaining it).

To be honest I don't agree with what you're saying. I think as long as you're relaxed it will not hurt your wrists. I find it is more wrist rotation than actual wrist bending. A bit like turning a door knob (as JoJo Mayer sais in his DVD).

Also watch some Buddy Rich, he uses French a fair bit, his hands seem fine in the 1986 DVD...

This is exactly what I mean - *vastly* conflicting info everywhere. One person saying French will mess your hands up, and then you see many old great players using it.

i don't think french grip is inherently bad for the wrists. i believe daredrummer was trying to say that it could be bad if you did it incorrectly. that goes for a lot of techniques. if done incorrectly they could cause pain or other problems. (another reason why having a teacher is good.)

you're right that there are a lot of techniques, but each one has its application. some are better than others for different things. it's good to have a quiver of techniques you can draw from when you need them.
 
Very interesting thoughts Mark. I tend to go with what feels best with my body - sitting high and burying the beater just feel right to me so I go with it.

I actually had a single lesson with the guy I'm thinking of going back to about 3 years ago. It was him that put the idea of palms down in my head. Prior to that I had been watching another 'speed demon' friend play and he used French grip so I was copying that.

I guess trying a little bit of everything and seeing what feels right with my own body is the way to go.

I'm a little surprised but very interested by the answers I'm getting. I really thought the first thing people would suggest is rudiments.

Thats exactly why you should get a teacher. It will end confusion, you just need a good method to follow. Cause it all works for most people, and you will in time become adept to play these things. trad is the most foreign thing I learnt, it feels so comfortable its un real.
 
But that means Tommy Igoe, and every player who uses French on the ride cymbal (like most do) are screwed. Watch Tommy on Groove Essentials.. he plays just about every groove on the hats using French grip (except when he's breaking it down and explaining it).

To be honest I don't agree with what you're saying. I think as long as you're relaxed it will not hurt your wrists. I find it is more wrist rotation than actual wrist bending. A bit like turning a door knob (as JoJo Mayer sais in his DVD).

Also watch some Buddy Rich, he uses French a fair bit, his hands seem fine in the 1986 DVD...

This is exactly what I mean - *vastly* conflicting info everywhere. One person saying French will mess your hands up, and then you see many old great players using it.

Yes you're probably right about the wrist rotation. But I was mainly referring to wrist bending, as you said. If you're using french and you're bending your wrist a lot in a downward motion, then that is most likely not good.
 
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