Meshuggah - now my drumming seems trivial :(

JohnnySomersett said:
A negative opinion is not an insult. If you've ever expressed a dislike for anything you risk 'insulting' someone by your definition. Making fun of mapex Saturns could be 'insulting' to the man who designed and the people the made (probably with dedication and skill) the product...and I know you're guilty of that!
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But it seems you're bashing him for the type of music he plays, I could spend all day here bashing musicians that I think don't deserve their status based on their lack of musicality but they're not gonna read this and quit playing and earning.

Thomas Haake is a very accomplished and skilled musician, as far as I know hes not an immoral person so yeah you can demonize him but the biggest question is why? hes a clown? does he amuse you? the way he talks?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWINtUCshxY
 
I opened this thread because I thought the band in the title had a cool name. Read some interesting comments on the drumming. Then I watched the YouTube video of that guy and also one of the actual band. They are all clearly clowns. That is not my opinion, it's a proven fact since both videos made me laugh and comic entertainers can be called clowns. In fact, I'm still laughing at their antics, and I'm 3 pages of this thread past watching the videos.

Johnny, I agree completely with you. I don't think your statement was particularly nice, but it seems to me that BFY and ALP have gotten their panties in a bunch because you aren't being politically correct enough for them and candy coating your opinion with qualifiers like "In my humble opinion".

What you wrote was clearly a statement of opinion. Anyone who wants to discuss the historic origins of why we call liberals leftist should have been more than capable of understanding that. They could also simply have ignored your post, rather than choosing to derail an interesting thread about rhythm and drumming skills.

I guess we'll just have to deal with the fact that Meshuggah has a following of Meshugene on this board.
 
TWerner said:
I opened this thread because I thought the band in the title had a cool name. Read some interesting comments on the drumming. Then I watched the YouTube video of that guy and also one of the actual band. They are all clearly clowns. That is not my opinion, it's a proven fact since both videos made me laugh and comic entertainers can be called clowns. In fact, I'm still laughing at their antics, and I'm 3 pages of this thread past watching the videos.
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It is absolutely your opinion. I find them to be musicians who are expressing themselves and ought to be respected as such, rather than your choice to mock them for what you don't like. "Comic entertainers" =/= "clown", especially when their intent is not to comically entertain you. I think you are presenting a flawed argument- often, people who present flawed arguments are ignorant. By your logic, that means that you're ignorant- yet I don't think that, I just think you're presenting a flawed argument, and that's my opinion.

(and last I checked, this thread had two pages)
 
abapicaltaenia said:
I find them to be musicians who are expressing themselves and ought to be respected as such
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Exactly Abap.

Why not just cut our fellow musicians a bit of slack? I can't sit through more than 10 seconds of Meshuggah and I'm too old for their horror movie image but those guys can play and they are obviously passionate about what they do.

All this reminds me of the older generation whining about the Beatles, Hendrix, Janis Joplin etc. Freaks, longhairs, weirdos, clowns ... history repeating.
 
JohnnySomersett said:
If you want to go historically literal then, yes, that is it's true etymology but you and I both know that it has a common usage to convey what I said it means. No need to get but-picky when I was just trying to explain something to someone not from our country. No need to be contrairy.

A negative opinion is not an insult. If you've ever expressed a dislike for anything you risk 'insulting' someone by your definition. Making fun of mapex Saturns could be 'insulting' to the man who designed and the people the made (probably with dedication and skill) the product...and I know you're guilty of that!
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If you want to insult someone then just do it. No need to recite your resume as a humanitarian and then cloud the waters with talk of history and etymology and pretend like you weren't taking the piss out of them.

If you wanna call someone a clown then just do it and do it with conviction and without apology.

Cheers :)
 
Magenta said:
That isn't an appropriate way for grown-ups to behave, I'm afraid.
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Err sorry if I wasn't clear but that's not what I meant.


Nobody should insult anyone. I was just pointing out that if you insult someone you shouldn't then pretend that you didn't.

Sorry I thought that was clear.
 
LimpyLoo said:
Err sorry if I wasn't clear but that's not what I meant.


Nobody should insult anyone. I was just pointing out that if you insult someone you shouldn't then pretend that you didn't.

Sorry I thought that was clear.
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Apologies, I did wonder but my almighty hangover made things a bit fuzzy! Note to self: wait till it clears next time.
 
For the record.

It's got nothing to do with being 'politically correct' (a terrible term, incidentally) or anything to do with my political beliefs. Having a left-wing social or economic agenda bears no relation on whether or not I think people should sit there throwing out unqualified insults on a forum that specifically denies posters the right to do that.

Johnny posted something stupid and I called him on it. He then posted up a statement that was factually incorrect. So I called him on that too. It's quite simple.

Whether or not you want to believe it, you don't have 'free speech' on this forum. And you are not entitled to simply throw insults around because you feel like it. Whether or not that is the case outside of this forum and your beliefs therein are utterly irrelevant - as are my, or your political beliefs.
 
I can admire their instrumental virtuosity, but I honestly can't listen to Meshuggah without cracking up. Especially when the singer starts "growling". Having read interviews of the band members, I am certain none of them would be insulted by the fact that their music makes me laugh, or that I called them clowns.

This thread was interesting at first because it started off discussing the rhythmic complexities of a math-metal band. Johnny stated his opinion of the band. That was not an insult to anyone here, but some of you decided to take it personally. In my opinion you acted like little kids. You aren't even in the band, so you clearly got suckered into responding and derailed the thread.

It's been entertaining watching you try to act like that isn't the case. Kind of like the Meshuggah video I watched. Fun for a bit, but don't you think it's getting old? I do.

What do you say we now let this thread get back to discussing lowdowner's topic, so he can get some encouragement and advice on how to play drums?
 
My initial posting was about the slight feeling of 'I don't think i'll ever get to this point' when watching someone who has a lot of technical ability - and whether you find it dispiriting or energising!

I've never heard of My-sugar-y or whatever before now, although I think there's a lot of energy in their sound and wouldn't dismiss it at all. It's growing on me actually...

I'll just get back to my funk and keep quiet in future :)
 
TWerner said:
I can admire their instrumental virtuosity, but I honestly can't listen to Meshuggah without cracking up. Especially when the singer starts "growling". Having read interviews of the band members, I am certain none of them would be insulted by the fact that their music makes me laugh, or that I called them clowns.

This thread was interesting at first because it started off discussing the rhythmic complexities of a math-metal band. Johnny stated his opinion of the band. That was not an insult to anyone here, but some of you decided to take it personally. In my opinion you acted like little kids. You aren't even in the band, so you clearly got suckered into responding and derailed the thread.

It's been entertaining watching you try to act like that isn't the case. Kind of like the Meshuggah video I watched. Fun for a bit, but don't you think it's getting old? I do.

What do you say we now let this thread get back to discussing lowdowner's topic, so he can get some encouragement and advice on how to play drums?
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Call it what you like but:

also, I reserve the right to insult whomever I choose without apology. The guys in Meshuggah come across as a bunch of clowns.
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Is insulting. Johnny even disclaims as such.

The real issue I take is not him saying things like that but then adding a political element to our revocation whilst getting his definitions factually incorrect. Arguing a political point is one thing, arguing a political point from a position of ignorance is another entirely.

I don't feel the need to defend Meshuggah particularly. No more than I feel the need to defend any other band that might be polarising. I do, however, have the right to defend my position when somebody starts trying to score points against me by generalising about my political beliefs and how they apparently affect my dialectic approach from a point of ignorance. That is the issue.
 
lowdowner said:
My initial posting was about the slight feeling of 'I don't think i'll ever get to this point' when watching someone who has a lot of technical ability - and whether you find it dispiriting or energising!

I've never heard of My-sugar-y or whatever before now, although I think there's a lot of energy in their sound and wouldn't dismiss it at all. It's growing on me actually...

I'll just get back to my funk and keep quiet in future :)
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I used to feel that way when I watched my cousin playing with Warren Haynes at some of the smaller venues they would do.
Don't keep quiet just because your thread got derailed! It was a good topic.
 
TWerner said:
I used to feel that way when I watched my cousin playing with Warren Haynes at some of the smaller venues they would do.
Don't keep quiet just because your thread got derailed! It was a good topic.
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I didn't think it would be so controversial! :) Serves me right for spending too much time on this forum and not enough time practicing - then the question wouldn't arise anyway! :)

But thanks for your comment!
 
lowdowner said:
I didn't think it would be so controversial! :) Serves me right for spending too much time on this forum and not enough time practicing - then the question wouldn't arise anyway! :)

But thanks for your comment!
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Yeah definitely don't let another drummer's skills get you down on your own playing, mate. First time I saw that clip of Mark Guiliana playing with Brad Mehldau I thought "yup, time to quit." And then I learned it was completely improvised and then I was like "yup, definitely time to quit."

But instead of quitting I started studying really hard. I started practicing 2-3 hours a day. I came up with like 20 MG-esque Syncopation variations. I even took a lesson with MG.

Anyway, I'm really happy with my playing now. I hope you take this feeling/experience and use it for good. Be constructive with your blues they say.


Cheers
 
lowdowner said:
I didn't think it would be so controversial! :) Serves me right for spending too much time on this forum and not enough time practicing - then the question wouldn't arise anyway! :)
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The subject isn't controversial. And, yes, it was a good topic until Johnny and TWerner derailed the thread by trivialising other musicians and accusing people of being "left wing" or "politically correct" on a drum forum.

All they had to say was the only ones who need the mad double bass skills of extreme metal drumming are metal drummers without throwing mud around.


lowdowner said:
My initial posting was about the slight feeling of 'I don't think i'll ever get to this point' when watching someone who has a lot of technical ability - and whether you find it dispiriting or energising!
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It's amazing how high the technical standard of playing is these days. Everyday guys playing drum covers on YT have the kind of chops that only the top players had in earlier days of rock. I used to feel dispirited seeing players who were technically light years ahead of me but now it's just normal.

Still, to my ear, the new breed are not as musically expressive as players of the past. I feel that's been somewhat sacrificed for the sake of bigger chops and trickier grooves.Same thing seems to have happened with movies, which are now technically stunning but most of it ain't exactly Casablanca.

But that doesn't make them clowns ;-)
 
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BacteriumFendYoke said:
For the record.

It's got nothing to do with being 'politically correct' (a terrible term, incidentally) or anything to do with my political beliefs. Having a left-wing social or economic agenda bears no relation on whether or not I think people should sit there throwing out unqualified insults on a forum that specifically denies posters the right to do that.

Johnny posted something stupid and I called him on it. He then posted up a statement that was factually incorrect. So I called him on that too. It's quite simple.

Whether or not you want to believe it, you don't have 'free speech' on this forum. And you are not entitled to simply throw insults around because you feel like it. Whether or not that is the case outside of this forum and your beliefs therein are utterly irrelevant - as are my, or your political beliefs.
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Really? Are you still playing that card? You and I (and probably most people who's read this thread) know full well that me using the 'left-wing' / 'lefty' colloquialism was not commenting on your bloody political leanings. It's selective ignorance to keep barking on about it when it's already been established that everyone knows what I meant. Stop pretending you don't know what I was getting at, it's making you look stupid. I can tell from your vocabulary and grammatical structuring that you're not, but what you're saying makes it appear so!

As for 'unqualified', well, I'm as qualified as the next person to have an opinion of my own, even if it is 'insulting'.

You have the right to be offended, just as much as I have the right to offend. Get over it.
 
Back on topic, please.
All parties involved made themselves clear (enough).
Let's discuss some more important stuff instead of splitting hairs.
 
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