...for the jazz cats ...

I feel like this album doesn't get its due in discussions about the Wayne Shorter discography. It probably has something to do with being recorded in 1965 but not released until 1979.

It's right up there with Wayne's best, as far as I'm concerned. Hearing McCoy and Tony together is fascinating. Tyner's usual drummer, Elvin, is about as stylistically different from Tony as you can get, but the way Tony plays with him here works out great.

Tony's playing and drum sound have never been better, imo. At this young stage of his career, Tony was very much like Jack in that he never seemed to repeat himself or play licks.


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Yeah!

So guess who I'm seeing live with his quartet tomorrow night?

Yes, Wayne Shorter Quartet at DSO Orchestra Hall. I'm fired up for this one. It will be my first time seeing Wayne and this quartet.

I bet many of you are jealous. Except Anthony, who's probably sitting in for Brian Blade on drums.
 
Speaking of...

Last night, I got to witness the great Wayne Shorter Quartet. I'm not a spiritual man, but it was a spiritual experience. Wayne can really still play. And I have to admit, I got a little freaked out by being in the presence of one of my all-time heroes.

Brian Blade is a master. I don't think I have ever seen a drummer more in-the-moment and in such a sustained state of pure rapture. The empathy between the band members is astounding. I think this is one of the finest improvisational groups around. They are definitely not resting on their laurels.

I can't recommend seeing this group strongly enough. They received multiple standing ovations from an appreciative audience. A really great night I got to share with my daughter.
 
Speaking of...

Last night, I got to witness the great Wayne Shorter Quartet. I'm not a spiritual man, but it was a spiritual experience. Wayne can really still play. And I have to admit, I got a little freaked out by being in the presence of one of my all-time heroes.

Brian Blade is a master. I don't think I have ever seen a drummer more in-the-moment and in such a sustained state of pure rapture. The empathy between the band members is astounding. I think this is one of the finest improvisational groups around. They are definitely not resting on their laurels.

I can't recommend seeing this group strongly enough. They received multiple standing ovations from an appreciative audience. A really great night I got to share with my daughter.
I saw them last year. Brian hit his drums so hard, his drum-tech had to readjust his floor tom twice. Wayne wanted to play the whole night, but the other band members had to almost carry him off stage. It was an awesome concert.
 
Yeah! I was just checking coming here to share that piece. It truly was a special night!
 
It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertai...jazz-fest-announces-more-headliners/83154286/
 
It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertai...jazz-fest-announces-more-headliners/83154286/

Not yet sure what my plans will be for that weekend Larry but if I can make it over, I'd love to hang. Thanks for the invite!
 
So a month later... cool, Spleen!

Anyway, I dug out this old classic that I haven't listened to for a while. It's on the "out" side for sure, which I dig.

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I got to see Jack DeJonette last night in concert.

I haven't seen a drumming musician in person of his level since Buddy Rich battled Shaughnessey on the Tonight Show in 1978....so it's been a while.

What an eye opener.
So inspiring.

Now I'm curious......which drumming musician of that kind of caliber was the last YOU saw.....and what kind of effect did it have on you?
 
It's weird checking in here and seeing the last post was from me over a year ago.

They've announced the 2016 lineup for the Detroit Jazz Festival. And it's a good one.

Any local cats planning to check it out later this year? If so, hit me up via PM and maybe we can connect. I pretty much live there for the duration of Labor Day weekend.

http://www.freep.com/story/entertai...jazz-fest-announces-more-headliners/83154286/

Got a good bit of family near detroit and out in saginaw. I'll try and arrange a trip out there during this to check it out. Will PM if I can get it arranged. I'll send you my rider.
 
How do you approach practice for playing this kind of free form? I have a close friend who loves free jazz and I try to accompany him, but I keep running into a wall as far as what to play.

The criticism always comes down to playing more melodically, but I have a tough time putting it into practice playing in this aspect. Currently I am focusing mostly on Stick Control and Master Studies, but that's more on overall drumming than improving free jazz. Listening always helps, but I always end up swaying towards the styles of jazz I like.

It's the first time I am listening to this recording and it flows great, thank you for sharing.

So a month later... cool, Spleen!

Anyway, I dug out this old classic that I haven't listened to for a while. It's on the "out" side for sure, which I dig.

81lnM2--YoL._SL1400_.jpg
 
Much of Ornette's earlier stuff, including this record, is what some now call "free bop"-- by which they usually mean bebop without normal form and harmonic structure. Most of what the drummers play is more or less normal bebop vocabulary, but since the music doesn't always adhere to the usual phrase lengths, and they're not soloing over the form of the tune, the drum stuff functions somewhat differently.

If you listen to Sunny Murray with Albert Ayler, or John Coltrane's Interstellar Space, or some of Paul Motian's playing, you'll hear another way of playing free, which doesn't have the time stated directly-- it's more textural, and the time is more of a zone than an exact pulse. There's a David Murray/Milford Graves duo record you might also look up on youtube.

As far as learning to do it and getting better at it, there's really no way to practice this kind of thing-- you have to do it. Since it is supposed to be free jazz, maybe you have some freedom to try some things, and see what works for you-- you don't have to stay totally within bebop vocabulary. Put the emphasis on listening to the people you're playing with rather than listening to yourself or figuring out what you're going to play.
 
Hi, I understand you are making a thread with the Jazz guys on the site.

My name is Alex Sanguinetti, I¨m a drummer and drum teacher from Valencia, Spain

Here a VIDEO of mine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0XzNlIdu8

AlexSanguinettiRocky_zpsf2d880d1.png


Best regards to all!

Alex Sanguinetti

...just came across this thread...

...hi alex, nice playing/drums/cymbals...if you don't mind, what type of ride are you using on your right (on your home page video feed)?...k istanbul?...weight?...stamp type?...sounds a bit like cobb's ride on kind of blue (at least to me)...thanks...
 
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...just came across this thread...

...hi alex, nice playing/drums/cymbals...if you don't mind, what type of ride are you using on your right (on your home page video feed)?...k istanbul?...weight?...stamp type?...sounds a bit like cobb's ride on kind of blue (at least to me)...thanks...

Thank you fo the nice words!

THAT ONE VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t0XzNlIdu8 is an old Sabian, 20 inches, all my cymbals are under 2000 grams. Has plenty tape. The one I use more often is 20 Manhathan Ride HHX (1900 g).

Best regards!

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That makes sense, thank you. Textural phrasing as in Interstellar Space is what I am especially having a hard time dealing with since what I'm playing tends to sway towards becoming more random than free, not providing that feeling of time zone well enough. Stockholm sessions seem easier to follow maybe because I am more familiar with bop phrasing.

My understanding is that there isn't a specific practice method you can apply to improve free textural jazz playing and you just end up getting better at it the more you play with a group instead of practicing alone.

Unfortunately it also happens to be the slowest method as you can't focus on nailing the swing pattern or flam rudiments alone and see improvements in your playing directly.

Much of Ornette's earlier stuff, including this record, is what some now call "free bop"-- by which they usually mean bebop without normal form and harmonic structure. Most of what the drummers play is more or less normal bebop vocabulary, but since the music doesn't always adhere to the usual phrase lengths, and they're not soloing over the form of the tune, the drum stuff functions somewhat differently.

If you listen to Sunny Murray with Albert Ayler, or John Coltrane's Interstellar Space, or some of Paul Motian's playing, you'll hear another way of playing free, which doesn't have the time stated directly-- it's more textural, and the time is more of a zone than an exact pulse. There's a David Murray/Milford Graves duo record you might also look up on youtube.

As far as learning to do it and getting better at it, there's really no way to practice this kind of thing-- you have to do it. Since it is supposed to be free jazz, maybe you have some freedom to try some things, and see what works for you-- you don't have to stay totally within bebop vocabulary. Put the emphasis on listening to the people you're playing with rather than listening to yourself or figuring out what you're going to play.
 
For that more textural thing, just spend some time moving your limbs in an uncontrolled way-- do it for awhile, and your playing starts to organize itself-- things start to emerge that you couldn't have arrived at any other way. I think to do it effectively you should be aware that even just moving your limbs randomly, you're generating a kind of tempo feel/area/zone. Just listen to yourself and be aware that that is happening, and what you're doing will start making sense. You can also focus on certain areas of the drum set-- if you hang on one of the tom toms or just the cymbals for awhile, that will help create some longer phrases or sections. Repetition is also good-- whatever first random thing you do, keep doing it, and let it develop-- until you feel you have a good reason to do something else.

It also helps to understand that you're composing as you do this-- you're not just making random space junk. Realize that as you're screwing around making noise, you're creating a normal piece of music with a beginning, middle, and end.

Hope that helps. Search for some videos of Billy Mintz, Milford Graves, Rashied Ali, Paul Motian, Tom Rainey, or whoever, too-- you can get an idea of how this music tends to develop, and of what you can get away with.

I went ahead and wrote up a blog post on this subject-- elaborating on this a little bit.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to write that post, I am going to try to put these ideas to use in the upcoming sessions.

Trying to move things in an uncontrolled way after focusing on control training for so long seems interesting, but it will definitely open some doors for me.
 
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