Another Reason To Use a Teacher

joeybeats

Silver Member
Just git hit head-on ... what a train wreck. Just realized why my ride spang-a-lang, spang-a-lang sounds a tad different from what I hear on most of the recordings. I'm accenting the 1 and 3, not the 2 and 4. Would have been a bit different had I been with a teacher from the giddy-up.

I have no idea to what extent I'll have to start over regarding the independence issues, but I suspect it'll be a horror movie of some sort. And after three years of working my fanny off to get it together. You guy's know what I mean regarding the hard work it has taken to get all that comping down. Dawson's, Reed's, Riley's, Igoe's ... so many exercises and charts. I am shocked how dependent all of that is to the very subtle difference in the movements of shifting the accent from 1 and 3, to 2 and 4. I'm an idiot. Joey
 
Don't necessarily go from one extreme to another (accenting 1,3 to accenting 2,4). One very popular interpretation of the jazz ride cymbal pattern is to play all four quarter notes at an equal volume and the skip beat just a bit softer (not too much though). The accent on 2 and 4 comes from the hi-hat. Sometimes accenting 2 and 4 on both the ride cymbal and hi-hat can be overkill.

I think that finding a teacher is a great idea. Please let us know where you live and hopefully one of us can suggest a teacher near you. Look for someone that fits your needs, even if you need to travel a bit to get to the lessons.

Jeff
 
Thanks for the reply, Jeff.

I have the contact info of the top instructors in my town. Leaving for China this weekend, so I'm sure you see my problem with scheduling. I will check in for a lesson or two when I return.

Reference the ride accent, I was reading the following page. Any thoughts from you?
http://www.paulwertico.com/articles/jazzridecymbal1.php

Regarding playing all four quarter notes with the same accent, I did read that in Riley's The Art of Bob Drumming, but then saw a youtube lesson from him and noticed that he was playing the 2 and 4 accent. Just looked for it, but couldn't find it, I think it was high tempo and finger technique.

Again, I was just amazed how dependent all of my jazz playing is to that ride movement of mine, with the improper accenting of 1 and 3.

Thanks again. Joey
 
one thing i've learned about the jazz ride pattern from my teacher, who is a phenomenal jazz player, is that there are all kinds of ways you can play it. you can accent on all four quarters, or on 1 and 3, or on 2 and 4. you can tighten it up or loosen it up. your can play it with a sixteenth note feel. you can play it near the edge of the cymbal or nearer to the bell. there's all kinds of things you can do, and if you listen to jazz recordings you can hear that different players have their own unique ways of playing it. so don't think you're playing it "wrong" just because you're doing one thing or another.
 
So, accents on 1 and 3 is acceptable in jazz? I'll roll that around before I take on a complete overhaul of my ride work. Thanks.

Let me see if I can't explain my problem a little better. Like most of you, I had to train my left foot and ride pattern to just become second nature so I could play without thinking about it as I read music or otherwise comp with the snare/bass. I created little exercises for myself, like playing the written groups of two, four or eight measures backwards or otherwise mixed up out of order. I even broke down the individual 4/4 measures into half's and played them all mixed up so I could get the reading and playing down. I thought I came up with every permutation of the eight notes in a 4/4 jazz measure. After practicing for the past three years, I finally got it down where I can read and play whatever I see with both my foot and left hand. But now, doing it as I attempt to move the accents at any real tempo from the 1&3 to 2&4 or all four quarter notes I feel like I am starting over.

Do you people actually have the ability to read the exercises in Reed, Dawson or Riley books and just switch it up between ride accents 1&3, 2&4 or all four quarter notes? Easily and at will? Can most do that? Is that something I should even be spending time with? Thanks. Joey
 
I have spent a lot of time working on my ride technique lately. I used to not be able to play very fast at all. Then I learned the free stroke and the Moeller, and I started playing a driving style that combined up, full, and down strokes, with, as Jeff said, equal volume on the quarters. This is great for slow to medium tempos, but it can sound a little rigid, and it's nearly impossible to play at high temps.

Then I went to John Riley, and he showed me his technique. I put a little video of it up on my YouTube page. It is a great technique, very natural.

But what I want to say to you is this: none of your work is wasted. Drumming is a journey, and the lesson you learned from working on your own, and then getting with a teacher, is such a valuable lesson it itself! Meanwhile, you have discovered all sorts of things in your solo studies which will blend with the more formal training to shape your unique style over time.

Remember, you have all your life to learn drumming!...at least....

Casper
 
I think it's important to be able to play all sorts of accents all throughout the measure over the typical jazz ride pattern. If you listen to great guys like Bill Stewart you can hear how (when he's really going at it) his ride pattern is always shifting to complement his other limbs. For just straight-ahead, groove-oriented tunes, I think accenting all 4 quarter notes and giving the skip note a light touch works great. To me, it just helps push the music along, almost like "4-on-the-floor," except I have actually come across players who hate it when you play the kick on quarters. I was told by a judge at a jazz festival after my solo performance that "I haven't seen anyone do that for 50 years, and plus, it sounds bad." That's rubbish, of course, but anyway accenting the ride on quarter notes seems to give a similar kind of depth and drive to the groove. It links it all together.

Okay, I've rambled quite enough.
 
Greeting's from China. Had a couple days at home to sit at the kit and start working through the issues. Not as bad as I thought it would be. Sat on the plane for a long time and ran the exercise through my mind, sitting there working out with no kit. I think that helped me understand the space and movement needed to accent the jazz spang, spang a lang, spang a lang, all three ways discussed in this thread. I think I could accent any way I wanted now if I had a set! Strange but true. Things will be fine. Thanks for all the input. Joey
 
Just a quick observation as I sit here in my hotel room listening to Art Blakely play with Monk and Coltrane on Nutty and Epistrophy. He is playing the ride with the accent on the 1 & 3. Anyway, maybe I'm hearing it wrong, just thought I'd throw it out there for you to check out. No drums for two weeks and I'm ready to get back to my kit. Four more days and I'm home. Joey
 
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