Where are you comping at with your left hand?

martinbr

Member
Hey jazzer's out there, was just wondering what beat in the bar line are you comping with when keeping time backing someone up? As a rule of thumb, I thought it was always on the & of 2 or & of 4, but I have a tendacy to move the accents around. Basically I am trying to listen to the soloist and comp behind him, but some times it sounds a little draggy in certain parts of the bar.

Any exercise books that are good for this other than the standard ones that i use like Reed's syncopation, Chapin's modern jazz drumming 4 way cordination book.
thanks,
Martin
 
There is no rule for what notes you're supposed to comp on. You mentioned the book Syncopation, but how are you using it? One of the fundamental ways to practice jazz comping with that book is to play the written part with your left hand against a swinging ride cymbal beat. As you can see, that means playing on a lot more than the & of 2 and the & of 4.

For ideas, I suggest listening to the music. Lots of it. Check out different drummers and try to imitate their approach. Eventually, you'll take different things from different drummers and come up with your own style and it will sound like you.
 
this question is begging for the the most long winded answer in the history of message boards

but I'll just say two things

listen to the music..... a lot ... thinking that comping only happens on the "and" of 2 & 4 tells me that you have not listened nearly enough to play this music

listen.... when something you like pops out at you transcribe it and learn it

I promise you that if you do that so many light bulbs will go on that you will have to take out a loan just to afford your electric bill
 
Like the others have said, do a lot more listening. Miles's records from the mid 50s would be a good place to start.

The books are fine, but I would also just learn to play single notes in sync with each of the notes of the cymbal pattern, and in the space between the quarter notes and the 8th notes-- the & of 1, and the & of 3. Once you can do each of them accurately, try to mix them up randomly. Get fluent with that-- and doing it with the bass drum-- and you'll be good to go for playing bebop. You can add fancier stuff later.

I've written a lot about this subject on my blog. You might start here and here-- as you'll read there, the & of 3 is a real traditional punctuation. You might also find this way of thinking helpful as you get your coordination together.

I'm in favor of doing everything out of Reed, but another good book is Rick Mattingly's Creative Timekeeping. I don't practice out of John Riley's book, but it's good to have, and there's a lot of good explanation in it.
 
Tony and Todd are the dudes on this forum on this subject in my experience but I'll weigh in anyway!

The 3 books mentioned, Chapin - Art of Bop - and syncopation

This is just my experience but they are all good but do very different things.

Chapin teaches you physically how to play jazz. It stretches your co-ordination and gives you some ideas but I found it very limiting in terms of applying to a band situation.

John Riley AoB is great at showing you why you play certain phrases and also gives you a nice was of progressing and increasing your vocabulary and facility but again it only gives you the options/phrases.

It doesnt help knowing how to fit it in to music. You can play exercise 3 from page 1 at this point because jazz is so reactive and in the moment.

The lightbulb for me was using syncopation in conjunction with Alan Dawsons book. WOW! everything made sense and my playing got transformed. Syncopation is just a lead sheet and lead sheets is what I get given in bands and now I had a thousand ways of interpreting the sheet.


I think you can't launch straight into syncopation without having worked through the technicalities which is where the other books come in.

Stick at it and as Tony says...transcribe! Loads! or google 'insert drummer name' transcription and thousands of things will come up....lots from Todd's awesome blog.

D
 
Lots of good suggestions, and thank you. Most of this I have done. I am not a beginning jazz drummer, though I have a long way to go. I have worked extensively out of the stick control book with the first couple of pages with a ride patterns going, ect.., Have done the short note long note exercises in Syncopation. I see I just need to do some more of this, and just sit down with some CD's and analyze some drumming styles. I have always loved Billy Higgins comping. It's like he is almost doing a shuffle with his left hand in where he lays down his accents.

Which brings me to my next question. Do you guys think it's just as effective to just get copies of drum transcriptions and learn them or do you think it's better if you do it yourself? I just don't have that much time of the day to be sitting down and transposing something, in which it's something I have never done anyway vs getting a copy of like for example, Philly Joe Jones transcriptions to analyze. What is the most effective? This stuff is endless.....
thanks,
Martin
 
Which brings me to my next question. Do you guys think it's just as effective to just get copies of drum transcriptions and learn them or do you think it's better if you do it yourself? I just don't have that much time of the day to be sitting down and transposing something, in which it's something I have never done anyway vs getting a copy of like for example, Philly Joe Jones transcriptions to analyze. What is the most effective? This stuff is endless.....
thanks,
Martin

I think it is fine to find a copy of a transcription.... but there is no substitute for transcribing something yourself

it will fine tune your ears and get you in touch with the intricacies and tendencies of who you are transcribing ..... more often than not a jazz players drumming is more about his inflections within how he is reacting to others than the notes he is playing ... you don't really get that off a piece of paper

you should be able to recognize who you are listening to by their ride beat alone as if it was the sound of a familiar persons voice

go listen endlessly to some of the masters that speak to you and become familiar with their stamp.... become familiar with what made them who they are ... get in touch with their dialect so that you can start to figure out what yours is
 
It's funny about transcribing stuff. Have you guys ever transcribed a part by listening and then later saw video footage and realized the sticking was all wrong? I find that whole exercise fascinating. I think it's valuable to learn how a drummer approaches everything and be able to cop it. I also think getting some of that stuff wrong actually helps you develop your own style and sound.
 
It's better to do them yourself, but there's no law that says you have to do them at all. Just listen a lot and pick up what you can.

I agree

as much as I enjoy transcribing .... and it definitely has helped me greatly over the years

... listening extensively is the only true way to learn to speak the language

not unlike the way a baby learns to speak from listening and repeating long before they can read

It's funny about transcribing stuff. Have you guys ever transcribed a part by listening and then later saw video footage and realized the sticking was all wrong? I find that whole exercise fascinating. I think it's valuable to learn how a drummer approaches everything and be able to cop it. I also think getting some of that stuff wrong actually helps you develop your own style and sound.

completely

figuring things out the way that is comfortable to you helps develop your own voice
 
I think it is fine to find a copy of a transcription.... but there is no substitute for transcribing something yourself...

martinbr,

I think this answer is the correct one to your question, I will add another reason no one (I think) mentioned why is so important to do YOUR OWN transcriptions, many (if not most) transcriptions are incorrect therefore if you study from a transcription YOU ARE NOT "CONTROLING" (doublechecking) YOURSELF you might study the wrong thing.

A very intersting thing is that they are USUALLY WRONG where the most interesting part is, this happens because in general that is the most sophisticated (in speed, subdivision or whatever) spot.
 
Ok, so I am sold that I should be the one transcribing. How do you start? I know very little about writing music out. I know how to read pretty good, but writing, I have never done a transcription.

Are you guys using a slow down utility to do this? Are we talking hours upon hours to transcribe one tune. Maybe you guys have all the time in the world, but I have a another life which includes other responsibilities to make a buck than sitting down and transcribing a tune just out of the satisfaction to say that I did it vs just practicing a transcribed piece already written out. Granted it may be written out a little wrong, but they all can't be wrong.

I am not trying to be a smart ass here or anything, just trying to get a idea what I am getting myself into if I try to do this.
thanks,
martinbr
 
Using programs to slow down the music is fine. You don't have to transcribe a whole tune, start simple, it can be an 8 or 4 bar break, or maybe just two bars in which Max plays some really cool comping you like. You can either write it down and learn it later or just get it by ear, both approaches have their advantages. I advise you to start with something you really, really like that is also within reason, for example maybe check out Art Blakey and Max Roach before jumping to Elvin and Tony.

Also you don't have to just transcribe drummers...pianists have really cool comping ideas that translate beautifully to the drums, so transcribing the rhythms of other musicians might be valuable as well.
 
Also you don't have to just transcribe drummers...pianists have really cool comping ideas that translate beautifully to the drums, so transcribing the rhythms of other musicians might be valuable as well.

beautiful advice William

transcribing piano and sax licks has opened my ears and expanded my ideas greatly

avery healthy thing for your ears
 
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I have to say that I was never much of a transcriber and even less to learn my transcriptions.

But the things I have been involved in have meant I need to transcribe lots and then learn em.

My ear has developed so much that I can transcribe quicker and hear things clearer now.

D
 
I have picked up most of my ideas from CD's. I use to love and listen to those Old Dextor Gordon lp's with Billy Higgins on them. Swinging like a MoFo.....
 
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