The Big Kits vs. Small Kits Debate

Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

i guess i dont feel confortable with so many things around, i like to see how many different sounds only 1 cymbal or a drum can make. also prefer to master my rigth foot on bass and left on hihatinstead of playing double bass or pedal, just to have to different foots( like playing traditional instead of matched grip)

the double bass drum thing makes me remember what papa jo jones said to charlie persip when he was experimenting with 2 bass drums :
"How can you try to play two drums when it takes a lifetime to master one?"

i think that is THE big question
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I prefer very large kit. Moreover I am trying to apply Bozzio's melodic approach for playing both, solo and with Kostarev group.
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Only once we have gig with small kit and I felt very incomfortable during playing.
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Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Small kits save space and money, big kits are more versatile. If you ain't worried about space and money than why not just play a big kit? Who thinks the drums are cool anyway? :p

Having a bigger kit doesn't necessarily make you a better drummer. In fact to a certain degree you could benefit more by starting out an a small kit, and sticking with until you have learn roughly all you can on those drums. Then upgrade it.
I suppose it all depends on the style of playing, for example jazz doesn't require many drums. On the other hand something like "metal" could require lots of toms or cymbals,
douple pedal etc...
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I suppose it all depends on the style of playing, for example jazz doesn't require many drums. On the other hand something like "metal" could require lots of toms or cymbals,
douple pedal etc...

There are no hard and fast rules either. Tony Williams used a 7 piece kit with 5 cymbals, and I believe Art Blakey in later years used a rather large kit. Of course Louis Bellson with big band jazz uses a large double bass kit, and has used even larger kits in the past. For metal, Chris Pennie uses a 4 piece kit and he actually used to use a 3 piece, just a bass, snare, and floor tom.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

For me, it still mostly comes down to ease of transport/setup. And a 4-piece kit with hats and two rides is plenty for my style of drumming. If I can't easily fit everything into the back of my hatchback Scion, then it's too much.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Hi all

Interesting forum. For me, I found that I had bought 2 kits for playing in 2 bands. I had a small jazz kit and a large rock kit. Ended up selling the jazz kit! Now I have hopefully found some versitility in one kit. I use a Premier Cabria 22bd, 12, 14, 16 toms and 14 sn. + I have a 10 sn that doubles as a tom and I have bought an 18 floor tom to convert into a small bd. All matching. This way I can adjust my kit for the venue or style of music. 18bd, 10sn + hat and 18 ride great kit for really small gigs. I also find changing set up helps with my playing/sticking/improvisation as I do not become complacent with the drums. Keeps me on my toes! Try doing a 4 bar rock fill with just a snare and bass drum... great fun!

Big T
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

the less "equipment" one has does not necessarily make him more creative...couldnt it also be that the more "equipment" one has, the more he has to be creative with? some drummers can be very creative with smaller kits: krupa, bonham, rich, roach. and some drummers can be just as creative with larger kits: peart, portnoy, cobham, beauford..when bill bruford added simmons to his kit, did it make him less creative. its personal preference. just like seven string guitars, six or twelve string bass, or chapman stick. adding midi triggers to ones kit certainly enhances the possibilities in which to be creative, and more sounds to add more textures...creativity comes from the mind, not the amount of equipment
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Big kit vs small kit debate???

Why.....?


Nevermind.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

the difference between the best today....and the best from yester year is this
beautiful technique and could get a number of sounds out of there simple drum set....and
can get great sounds, (along with great technique) out of their big drum set...

thats it!...i am a simple kit owener, but generally the big kits are to get more sounds, dont mind the skil aspect...(even though a small kit forces you to experiment, a big kit doesnt).....but its making music that bit broader...no?
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

There is a LOT of creativity involved when you have a big kit!

...how to explain the big purchase to your wife, how to get the whole thing to the gig, how to convince other drummers that you're not compensating for other areas in your life...
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Before I ever became interested in being a drummer, I watched and listened to Neil Peart on his massive kit, Steve Smith playing a 9 pc with Journey, Keith Moon and Kenny Jones both with large double bass multi-tom kits with The Who, and the list goes on and on.

So I've always gravitated toward larger kits. But then the reality of lugging that stuff around from gig to gig sets in, coupled with not always having much stage space, and I've spent most of my playing days using a 5pc kit with a handful of cymbals.

I've often tried to strip down even further, but the need for an extra cymbal or that 2nd rack tom becomes to strong when I'm working on new music, and I never quite get it down. LOL.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

For all practical purposes I use a 5pc with 2 crashes, a ride and some hats. I wouldn't want to gig with much more. I'm considering adding my own rack to manage my mics and monitoring though.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

For all practical purposes I use a 5pc with 2 crashes, a ride and some hats. I wouldn't want to gig with much more. I'm considering adding my own rack to manage my mics and monitoring though.

While people with small kits argue with people with large kits, most drummers are like you and me and play mid-sized kits of 5 to 8 pieces. I think people who are passionate about small kits are desperate to make some kind of creative statement, while people who are passionate about large kits are trying to compensate for lack of ability or confidence.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

Who else besides me likes a small kit with massive drums?
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I've been playing a 5-piece (2-up 1-down) for years. I just bit the bullet and dropped the second rack tom, after weeks of agonising, and moved the ride into the classic spot.
I love it!! Feels so right. Should've done it ages ago. Looks good too.
Still, I'm wondering about a 2nd floor tom - - - - ;o)
I'm playing classic rock, folk-rock and some dancy stuff. If I got into a prog band, I'd probably add a couple of small toms on the left. But the ride stays where it is!
Small kit for now, big kit if the music/band requires it.
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

There is a LOT of creativity involved when you have a big kit!

...how to explain the big purchase to your wife, how to get the whole thing to the gig, how to convince other drummers that you're not compensating for other areas in your life...

ya, i never thought about that!......
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

while I have respect for guys who play on small kits, I can't help but wonder what they would be able to accomplish with more. The smallest kit i've seen played on professionally is the 3 piece used by the guy in Pretty Girls Make Graves. He gets some very creative work done on those drums.

I have always used 5 piece kits. started 2 up 1 down, then switched to 1 up 2 down which i prefer. as i've progressed with my playing i've started adding more. I don't do it because I feel like I need to prove anything, I do it because thats the options I want to have available. Just because I now have a 7 piece with a bagillion cymbals doesn't mean i need to use every single drum in every single song. but if i want to, i can.

honestly, for me the size of the kit is not based on how many drums there are per se, but how many cymbals here are. i'm a very big cymbal guy, the more i have the happier i am. with the drums, you can tune to basically whatever sound you want. but its the cymbal selection that really makes the kit. whether you've got a complete set of dry cymbals, z customs, bright cymbals, or a mixure of them all; its the cymbals that really define the drummer for me. there are just so many options. when i played 5 piece with 1 ride, 1 set of hats, and 2 crashes it was considered moderate. when i upped to 2 hats, 5 crashes, and a few chinas i suddenly had a massive kit, but i never added any drums.

bu yeah back to the original point, i prefer bigger kits to a point. terry bozio would be well above that point. alex van halen's 84 kit would be pushing it. something like tony royster jr. works for me. good amount of drums but a baglillion cymbals ftw!!
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I've been playing a 4pc. for about 1.5 yrs. now and I really felt a difference when I minimalized the number of drums I was surrounded by. It changed my playing entirely and helped me focus on the groove, without as many distractions.

Now I've got a monster kit coming and I'll be doing the 3-up, 2-down thing. At this point I'm genuinely craving the extra "voices" instead of simply using them because they were there.

I've thought about it quite a bit though. What sort of benefit is there to having a few more toms? Not a whole lot, really. By using less I gained better control of dynamics and learned to pull more sounds from fewer toms. I didn't necessarily miss the extra toms and I realized how much better my filling was sounding by centering it around the snare.

I think the real benefit is the change in the physical movements of the body. With more options, I feel my patterns will become more complex.

Or, I'll just get sick of the idea after a few days and whittle it back down to a 4pc. again. :)
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

I think people who are passionate about small kits are desperate to make some kind of creative statement, while people who are passionate about large kits are trying to compensate for lack of ability or confidence.

That sounds a bit ham-handed to me. Here's my take:

The small-kit crowd seems to operate on the notion that a really good drummer could play anything in the world on a coffee can, and anything more than that is a waste of space. They have simply bought into a notion popular with non-drummers (and VERY popular with soundmen) that drumming is and never need be anything more than "boom-BAP-boom-boom-BAP!", and thus all you REALLY need are kick, hat and snare . That's absurd.

By the same token, the big-kit crowd is assuming the superiority of tonal variety without much consideration for the rhythmic variety asserted by "small-kit K.O.", although not with as much vigor, and I think most of us are guilty at some point in our drumming lives of dragging a monster around for looks or whatever even if we didn't admit it at the time, even to ourselves. Big kit players can convince themselves of a need for anything regardless of the musical reality at work.

I play both as it suits me, and I'm trying to go down the same road as Bozzio here, so I am staring down the barrel of a 22-piece kit soon, and all of the challenges inherent in the transportation and playing of such a thing. I like smaller kits as well, and I'm working on compositions that deal with the limitations and the possibilities of those kits, but there is a different focus for each one. With the huge kit, my approach is much more about melodic expression along the lines of a mallet player than a drummer, so much of the textural stuff takes a back seat to the melody. Similarly, the small-kit compositions are the reverse and rhythm and dynamics are what sets up the drama of the piece. I can play a nice solo on a 2-pc. kit, but it will be fundamentally different from the nice solo on a 22-pc. kit by its very nature.

I think the small-kit crowd has a valid point if traditional drumset drumming is what's being called for. Most of those situations are going to be pretty straight-ahead and most drummers won't get too far away from the kick, snare and hats/ride there. However, the big-kit crowd makes a fine point: there is a four-piece kit lurking within every large drumset, and it does you no harm to carry it and not use it, versus needing it and not having it.

As far as Bozzio, Collins and others like them are concerned, keep in mind that they are the only one on stage when doing a solo drum show, so the only thing they are making up for is the lack of a band, which is of course, the whole point of what they are doing. I have no doubt that there still exists some yo-yo out there who thinks his bitchen' quad-bass monster will make up for his inability to keep solid time or identify a paradiddle, but most of us are smarter than that (I hope).

And I don't care about dead horses. These threads are fun from time to time!
 
Re: THE BIG KITS VS SMALL KITS DEBATE

3. And lets face it, we would all have huge kits if we had roadies....How can you even compare Bozzio or any other pro drummer with anyone of us? I went to a 4 pc just because just to save my back. It has nothing to do with music, just physics.

When I was struggling in an original band where no one would even help me load in, I used 4 rack toms, 3 floor toms, 3 snares, 3 roto-toms, two bass drums, and a set of bonogs (tuned higher than the 4 racks). Yup, a 15 piece kit. I also had 22 cymbals, 4 cowbells, a set of temple blocks, 2 gok blocks, a set of ago-go bells, a tambourine, and wind chimes.

When I joined my current band, I used a six piece with 7 cymbals and an electronic percussion pad set-up.

I got a tech, and soon switched to a 5-piece with 4 cymbals.

I still have a tech, and am considering switching to a 4 piece.
 
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