Playing live, with a click

Just so I understand, why do you use a click in the first place? If all you are wanting it for is to set a tempo, use a metronome. Make the band follow you. In rock music, 2 and 4 are very strong beats.

Sorry. Shouldve said a metronome that makes a click sound
 
I had heard that a lot of upper level players/bands use a click in order to make their product more consistent and eliminate discussion about tempo. Until now, I assumed that these players used it live but,

And this is correct.

Many top bands use a click live. If one wants to be a working drummer for hire for big tours, playing to a click live is often a job requirement. Some pros I know who get hired for touring tell me they don't remember the last time they got hired for tour job that didn't require a click live.

Backing tracks are a big part of so many bands now, even if it's just for a few songs. And even bands that don't use backing tracks might want that "studio" consistency, or just to take the subjectiveness out of it.
 
And this is correct.

Many top bands use a click live. If one wants to be a working drummer for hire for big tours, playing to a click live is often a job requirement. Some pros I know who get hired for touring tell me they don't remember the last time they got hired for tour job that didn't require a click live.

Backing tracks are a big part of so many bands now, even if it's just for a few songs. And even bands that don't use backing tracks might want that "studio" consistency, or just to take the subjectiveness out of it.

After I learned this when I looked at bands live, I started noticing they usually all have ear buds on.
 
After I learned this when I looked at bands live, I started noticing they usually all have ear buds on.

In ear monitors don't necessarily mean they have a click going into their ear buds.
But it does make it easy for the drummer and/or band to use a click if they chose to use one.

In recent times, I've noticed many name bands no longer count off songs, because the count off is from a click track going through their in ear monitors to the entire band.
 
Could be an urban legend but someone was telling me about an A lister tour where there is a tech under the stage who's job it is to tap the click up or down to chase the drummer. That the drummer has trouble following the click and with so many other parts sequenced or flown in samples, they have to chase him with the computer.
 
Could be an urban legend but someone was telling me about an A lister tour where there is a tech under the stage who's job it is to tap the click up or down to chase the drummer. That the drummer has trouble following the click and with so many other parts sequenced or flown in samples, they have to chase him with the computer.

I wouldn't doubt it. On the flip side, I remember reading that Neil Peart is so locked in that he doesn't use a click track, even though the band has lots of sequenced parts. They said Geddy and Alex would trigger the start of most of the sequenced parts, but Neil was so "dead on" in his timing that it always worked.

Chris
 
Unless you are synched to video or backing vocals I wouldn't recommend using a click live. I know it seems like a cool idea, but it can be a much bigger headache than its worth.

Amen and amen. We started occasionally using backing tracks at my church this year, and to me that is the only live situation where a click makes sense. We use Aviom monitors, and there have been several occasions where I've muted the "rhythm" guitar player mid-song because he was having trouble keeping up.

I played a gig earlier this year where I was filling in somewhere, and only knew a couple of the musicians. They wanted to play with a click. Fine. So in the first song (in rehearsals), the rhythm player cannot keep up with the click. I dump it and we proceed. A couple songs later, there is a breakdown where only the rhythm guitar plays. The same guy who couldn't play to the click earlier (and who was very nice, by the way, so this not a knock on him as a person) asks how he's supposed to play that part without the click. It just didn't make sense to me. Honestly, if a player can't find the inherent rhythm of the song and maintain it, even when the drums are out, I don't consider him much of a player, and if I have a choice, I'd rather not work with him at all.
 
I wouldn't doubt it. On the flip side, I remember reading that Neil Peart is so locked in that he doesn't use a click track, even though the band has lots of sequenced parts. They said Geddy and Alex would trigger the start of most of the sequenced parts, but Neil was so "dead on" in his timing that it always worked.

Chris

Neil used to use a click track for years on Red Sector A live but I noticed in the last tour he did not. I also wonder how much sequenced stuff they do anymore gets triggered by another band member. I know Geddy seems to do a lot with his Taurus pedals but I haven't watched that closely.

Oddly enough, I think his time has loosened since he studied with Freddie Gruber. I know he talks about that in the dvd A Work in Progress. Before that he was definitely a machine when it came to time.
 
Neil used to use a click track for years on Red Sector A live but I noticed in the last tour he did not. I also wonder how much sequenced stuff they do anymore gets triggered by another band member. I know Geddy seems to do a lot with his Taurus pedals but I haven't watched that closely..

Yes, you used to be able to tell which songs had a click because he would put on this big headphones for Red Sector A and a few others. Now with in-ear monitors, it's just a matter of changing what's being fed into his montors.

Some where on yourtube there is a 6 part documentary about doing sound for Rush, and the extensive mixing that goes for Neil's in ears. And somewhere in that, it is discussed how they don't use a click even though there are extensive sections of sequencers that are triggered by Geddy or Neil himself.

The part that blows me away is at the end of Spirit of Radio, Geddy hits a button and the piano part comes in for the end. How the heck are they in perfect time for the the sequencer to come in and be locked in perfect time with the band is beyond me.
 
Could be an urban legend but someone was telling me about an A lister tour where there is a tech under the stage who's job it is to tap the click up or down to chase the drummer. That the drummer has trouble following the click and with so many other parts sequenced or flown in samples, they have to chase him with the computer.

Might have been Alex Van Halen in his heavy drinking days before he got sober.

Also in the mid-late 80's, there were various attempts to make midi-devices that would speed up or slow down a sequencer to conform to the drummer instead of the drummer conforming to the sequencer. In Modern Drummer there were ads for a product called the "Rushin Dragin" that claimed it would sense what the drummer was playing and adjust a sequencers tempo.

Although by all accounts, the product failed miserably, as did other attempts to make similar devices.

But the point being, at the time in the mid 80's, the thought or desire to have a click speed up/slow down and chase the drummer was still with-in the idea of normal. Where as today, it would not be.
 
I'm fine with using a click/metronome to quickly call up a tempo on a setlist and start the tune off in the right meter.. but for playing live - no click! Same goes for playing to a sequenced backing track.. it can be disastrous on stage if the band gets out of sync with the 'music machine' (usually because of volume issues; a band member can't hear the track and goes off, followed by chaos!). To me live playing .. means playing live!
 
Also in the mid-late 80's, there were various attempts to make midi-devices that would speed up or slow down a sequencer to conform to the drummer instead of the drummer conforming to the sequencer. In Modern Drummer there were ads for a product called the "Rushin Dragin" that claimed it would sense what the drummer was playing and adjust a sequencers tempo.

Although by all accounts, the product failed miserably, as did other attempts to make similar devices.

But the point being, at the time in the mid 80's, the thought or desire to have a click speed up/slow down and chase the drummer was still with-in the idea of normal. Where as today, it would not be.

It's pretty standard technology now. And that could be what Rush does to have their tracks sync'd with Neil even when he doesn't use a click. Pretty much every DAW software I know of has a tap-to-tempo function. I know on MainStage 3, which I am using now, you can map the tap-to-tempo to a MIDI note or trigger or something. So, let's say you are playing something like Red Sector A that has quarter notes on the kick drum for most of the song. You could route the kick drum to the tap-to-tempo function, and the sequencer will be in time with the drummer instead of the other way around.
 
Not that this matters much, but if I remember right, the article about Rush and Neil having perfect timing was back in the '90s for the Test for Echo tour. I remember reading it in a "Mix" or "EQ" magazine.
 
Not that this matters much, but if I remember right, the article about Rush and Neil having perfect timing was back in the '90s for the Test for Echo tour. I remember reading it in a "Mix" or "EQ" magazine.

Yeah Neil is a drumming robot. I read an interview with Geddy once where he said that Neil would practice his drum parts at home, go into the studio, nail it on the first take, then pack up his stuff and go back home.
 
I ALWAYS use a click live.

The drummer sets the tempo and everyone has to follow it.
If someone in the band is struggling then they need to practice with you and learn to play follow the leader.

The ONLY time you will ever see me on stage without a click is if a song has particular tempo changes that don't fall within exact half time or double time of what the original tempo is, and that isn't often.

In recent times, I've noticed many name bands no longer count off songs, because the count off is from a click track going through their in ear monitors to the entire band.

Makes for a better stage show.
Wish I could always have it that way, but most of the time I'm the only one with in-ears. I hate counting with the Hat during a brake that might only have a guitar playing, but if I didn't the tempo would go to shit by the time the band has to come back in.
 
I ALWAYS use a click live.

The drummer sets the tempo and everyone has to follow it.
If someone in the band is struggling then they need to practice with you and learn to play follow the leader.

The ONLY time you will ever see me on stage without a click is if a song has particular tempo changes that don't fall within exact half time or double time of what the original tempo is, and that isn't often.



Makes for a better stage show.
Wish I could always have it that way, but most of the time I'm the only one with in-ears. I hate counting with the Hat during a brake that might only have a guitar playing, but if I didn't the tempo would go to shit by the time the band has to come back in.

Each to there own, and I am not having a pop, but if rigid tempo is your bands thing, why dont they save on a drummer and go for a drum machine?

Also , where would "Cant get Enough" by Bad Co be without the count in?

Personally I think there is too much polish and not enough musicality in a lot of gigs I have seen over the last few years. A lot of very good musicians going through the motions, and trying to be perfect and not feeding off the rest of the band. That's a better stage show, to me anyway.
 
It's possible to play with a click and not sound rigid. The ones that sound rigid are the ones that get ahead or behind the click constantly and are making small adjustments throughout the song. That doesn't sound good, and it's because they are not good at it, not because of the click.

Personally, I don't find speeding up or slowing down to be a good thing at all, unless it is purposeful (for example "Gun" by Soundgarden).
 
It's possible to play with a click and not sound rigid. The ones that sound rigid are the ones that get ahead or behind the click constantly and are making small adjustments throughout the song. That doesn't sound good, and it's because they are not good at it, not because of the click.

Personally, I don't find speeding up or slowing down to be a good thing at all, unless it is purposeful (for example "Gun" by Soundgarden).

EXACTLY!

I have had a lot of compliments on my click abilities, especially from people who are anti-click guys. If you keep things steady you can still have that organic flow with the band.
Just because I'm working with a click in my mix doesn't mean I'm not playing off the Bassist.
And if I want to give some push and pull to a song I'll play a little behind the click in a verse and then a little ahead in the chorus. It's a minor change that give you that "organicness" without compromising tempo.
 
All depends on what is agreed amongst the band.

If everyone agrees to the click, then be sure to record live scratch tracks to correct other members who are not complying( or, heavan forbid, yourself!)...or bring up the idea of NOT using it in the case where more 'breath' is wanted...

...either way, its a communication issue far before it is a technical/ability issue.
 
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