Professional responsibility

Dave_Major

Silver Member
Morning gang, I couldn't think of a better title so it's not another pro rant!!!

I'm filming videos for my local drum store to try and increase their web presence and also my own 'brand' for want of a better term. I'm doing it with 3 other teachers from the local area and sitting chatting to them I noticed something very very odd.

None of them had done any research or had any prior knowledge of the other guys on YouTube and the net. None of them knew who Mike Johnston is. No one knew drumeo or any of the other decent YouTube teachers.

They seemed very disconnected from the world that we are trying to enter into.

To me it's basic market research and despite being sent links they hadn't checked them out to see the vibe and ideas we want to put across.

Took me a little by surprise as to the how in their own bubble they were.

So my question is should teachers ,especially, be aware of new market changes, new drummers, new books and DVD's and media that come out (one didn't know about Hudson Digital Downloads and when i told him about it he said that sounds like a great idea!)
in order to keep themselves relevant and up to date?


just a thought.

D
 
It strikes me that in any other sphere, keeping up with developments/trends/new material would be termed "continuing professional development". The clue is probably in the name. In my day, when I was a schoolteacher, I would attend further training sessions at least once a month and these were always well-attended, even by the most experienced teachers.

It doesn't mean that any teacher should jump on the nearest bandwagon, or that they should necessarily make any changes at all to what they do and how they do it, but it makes sense - to my way of thinking at least - to be aware of the bigger picture, and I would have thought that most would be keen to find ways to make their job easier.

Out of interest, what is the demographic of these other guys?
 
Hey magenta, few i'm not alone in this thinking!!

Age wise they are all 40 or there abouts and all in settled teaching jobs in schools or colleges.

Still i think (especially the college aspect) they should be up to date with new bands and drummers who their students are into.


Dave
 
It's shocking how out of touch they are.

I understand it. It's comfortable to have a pedagogy which works for you and your students. But new stuff comes out all the time. Staying connected means you hear about it. If something hits your radar that works better than what you've been doing, you switch. You at least try it.

Every professional needs to stay current on the state of the art in his profession, lest the profession pass him by. It's true in rocket science, teaching (whether privately or in a structured group setting), hell, even in my profession (brewing)!

I may be speaking out of turn here, but in my opinion if you don't stay awake and aware of what's going on in your profession, you can hardly call yourself a professional.
 
Maybe they "have been there done that". And don't feel the need to check out the newer stuff.

There isn't that much new anyway. "Gospel chops" is linear drumming and one could do lots of stuff, if not all the stuff with a couple of older books:)
 
Maybe they "have been there done that". And don't feel the need to check out the newer stuff.

There isn't that much new anyway. "Gospel chops" is linear drumming and one could do lots of stuff, if not all the stuff with a couple of older books:)

Nothing new under the sun at all.

It's not the concepts it's the players, leading lights in online things. NOne of them know about subscription based websites or any trends in the market currently.

It's one thing to not teach the latest book or whatever it's another to be totally unaware of it

D
 
Yes. I think it's important as a teacher who is teaching a wide array of age ranges and styles to stay current with methods and players within the style they target to teach.

Speaking from experience - I'm a dinosaur from not doing this from a teaching perspective. I'm out of touch with many current methods, techniques and styles. No one knows this better than me which is why I've pretty much have stopped teaching altogether.

Since I don't do this for a living, I also don't have to care.
 
There's really nothing wrong with the tried and true pedagogy. Where do you think these new guys got their info from ? The tried and true methods. As for not knowing some of these Youtube teachers you're referring to, so what. If a guy has a full studio of students why does he care how a guy is teaching on youtube. Not if he's a teacher worth paying he shouldn't. The best teachers are not found on youtube or through websites. You study with a teacher to study to learn from them.
 
There's really nothing wrong with the tried and true pedagogy. Where do you think these new guys got their info from ? The tried and true methods. As for not knowing some of these Youtube teachers you're referring to, so what. If a guy has a full studio of students why does he care how a guy is teaching on youtube. Not if he's a teacher worth paying he shouldn't. The best teachers are not found on youtube or through websites. You study with a teacher to study to learn from them.

Agree unless......they are recording videos for YouTube and have been asked to check out links and see what others are doing.

Would be like me starting a drum shop and not knowing about new brands.

D
 
I may be speaking out of turn here, but in my opinion if you don't stay awake and aware of what's going on in your profession, you can hardly call yourself a professional.

Spot on. Staying abreast of current developments is part of being a professional. How professional is a doctor if they never pick up any of the literature once they get out of med school? Heck, many of the tools used in my field didn't even exist when I was in college.

OTOH, I am not a believer in change for the sake of change. Some people jump on every latest fad and gadget whether or not it's good, simply because it's new. Not a fan of that. In this instance, if you're going to do a video for a drum web presence, it seems strange to me that the people involved wouldn't be curious to see what's already out there. You're just setting yourself up to look incompetent if you're unaware. I mean, you and your students might be happy with whatever system you're using currently, but you should at least be familiar with the other stuff, at the very least, know that it exists!
 
it is our responsibility not only as educators but as professional musicians to have our finger on the pulse of what is happening in our field ...
... this doesn't mean we have to like all of it or any of it for that matter....but not being aware is completely irresponsible

in todays market ... an educator that out of touch will absolutely be left in the dust

there is a whole new breed of music educators right now .... and those old stale, stubborn, out of touch , outdated codgers need to either smell the pot roast or get out of our kitchen Dave

you and I are nurturing the next generation
 
... in todays market ... an educator that out of touch will absolutely be left in the dust

Completely agree.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that things seem to be moving at warp speed in terms of new approaches, etc.... That probably has to do with more on-line presence and awareness than ever before as well.

I feel as if I'd be doing any student a disservice at this point by taking them on with the method I'd apply. So, I don't do it. I recommend them to others instead of wasting their time and money.

Lastly, I'd like to follow up by saying that ironically I was thinking of this very thing this morning before I stumbled on this thread - not from a teacher perspective - but from a student perspective.

I've had the privilege to have studied with some amazing people. I do know for a fact though, a couple of these people never "budged" from their angle or even widened their listening to things much beyond what influenced them (jazz from the 20's - 60').

I then studied with a professor who was more up-to-date (still in the same style) and it was totally refreshing and could not of more emphasized the fact that the former teachers were very entrenched in their paradigm.

Not that their paradigm is invalid or inappropriate - but it was obviously missing some of the evolution of the music and more specifically the instrument.

Someday I hope to be able to get back to that one professor when I am able to commit to the time demands he rightfully requires. I'm not in that position now, but I sure wish I was.

As a lifetime student - I want to work for and give my money to the person who is indeed aware of the evolution, can explain and teach it.
 
Completely agree.

I may be wrong but it seems to me that things seem to be moving at warp speed in terms of new approaches, etc.... That probably has to do with more on-line presence and awareness than ever before as well.

I feel as if I'd be doing any student a disservice at this point by taking them on with the method I'd apply. So, I don't do it. I recommend them to others instead of wasting their time and money.

Lastly, I'd like to follow up by saying that ironically I was thinking of this very thing this morning before I stumbled on this thread - not from a teacher perspective - but from a student perspective.

I've had the privilege to have studied with some amazing people. I do know for a fact though, a couple of these people never "budged" from their angle or even widened their listening to things much beyond what influenced them (jazz from the 20's - 60').

I then studied with a professor who was more up-to-date (still in the same style) and it was totally refreshing and could not of more emphasized the fact that the former teachers were very entrenched in their paradigm.

Not that their paradigm is invalid or inappropriate - but it was obviously missing some of the evolution of the music and more specifically the instrument.

Someday I hope to be able to get back to that one professor when I am able to commit to the time demands he rightfully requires. I'm not in that position now, but I sure wish I was.

As a lifetime student - I want to work for and give my money to the person who is indeed aware of the evolution, can explain and teach it.

great post Dave

it got me thinking about a few things

one being studying with Elvin .... pretty intensely from 96 to 99.... then periodically from 99 til he passed

as we know... Elvin wasn't really a "teacher" ... he was more of a mentor or some sort of guru sort of spiritually guiding
to me he was way ahead of the curve and I stole so many of his tactics

he was all about... the music the music the music.... F everything else ... play the music ... F books ... stop thinking about technique... if you are making the music sound good then you are using proper technique .. stop trying to name it ... get in the vein ... get in the vein of the music!!!!

that was all such an amazing breath of fresh air to me... but a breath that came in the form of a 150 mph wind ... I mean my hair was blown back .

he wasn't about... ok here's how you do it.... he was more about.... you know how to do it already, its in you... just do it!!!
he was about listening ... hey you hear that ?.... you hear what he just did?.... why do you think he did that ?
....or.... what did you feel when you heard that ?
... or..... he would play something for me and say .... do what I just did but do it how you would do it

he didn't mean to play what he played.... he meant harness the same bull he just roped but do it as yourself ...

that stuff is amazing to me

unless my student is like 8 or under.... I refuse to spoon feed them... I don't think hand holding helps anyone

Elvin would always tell me... you already know what to do , you are only questioning it because you are not confident in it because you are afraid what I will think of it

.... and he was 100% right

he used to tell me about how Monk would teach....he said Monk would not speak during lessons ..... at all.... he would play then get up from the piano and motion his hand toward the stool for the student to play what he played.... if the student did something unsatisfactory to Monk he would make them get up and sit down and play it again ....
he said that Monk would do this to force them to pay attention .... to force them to teach themselves via observation .... they both believed that proper observation was the best teacher

these tactics not only build aware musicians but they build character and confidence

spoon feeding information has never helped anyone in the long run ... and I felt that many of my teachers would use words like "wrong" and "incorrect" and try to spoon feed me these minute details that I can honestly say did not help me one bit

a really good teacher guides you to eventually be able to develop your own ideas .... develop your inner teacher by trusting your instincts ..... like sort of a self feeding machine

learning an instrument is about 1% physical and 110% mental

sorry for the novel
 
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Excellent topic -

I have noticed that my teacher has a general disdain for things I bring him from the internet - very similar to how my doctor reacts when I go see him with an elbow injury that I have diagnosed myself via WebMD...

JM
 
We're living in a neat age.

With the internet, new drummers are attaining an incredible degree of virtuosity at a speed that us old times find astounding. As some have pointed put, the purpose of in-person instruction has changed a bit.

Musical instruction in my youth was more of an academic exercise. I had a guitar teacher with a curriculum and lesson plans that would make me play parts to a metronome and chart my progress to make sure I did my homework. To quote the teenage me, "It sucked". When I wanted to learn a part, there was no youtube. Almost everything was done by ear, as sheet music can only give you the timing and notation. Picking and other complexities had to be reverse engineered.

Today, my drum instructor is more of a mentor, guide, and coach. When it came time to fix my flams, he made sure my stick control was right, and gave me direction, and then had me work off of the internet for the next two weeks. Why have one teacher when you can have seven different teachers, and seven different perspectives, and a single mentor to help you filter out the BS from the gems. Either way, I think it's wonderful that he embraces the net, and I'm glad I can now properly play "My Sharona".
 
Maybe those teachers should spend some time in forums like this, where information is shared to the nth degree. At almost 58, and a long way from taking lessons, there's no reason I would need to know about Drumeo or Cobus, etc. But, I do, and that's thanks to the folks here.

As soon as others start knowing more than I do, I'm out of a job. So, I keep my ear to the ground, and my eye to the screen, just to keep up.

Bermuda
 
It is good to be "Up to date" but if there is a great teacher/mentor who specialises in teaching beginners and giving them the basics and the fundamentals of drumming in a way thats easy to understand, who motivates and inspires there students, then why change? The student, after exhausting all that teacher can give them, can then move on to another teacher that majors in the next step they want to take.
 
It is good to be "Up to date" but if there is a great teacher/mentor who specialises in teaching beginners and giving them the basics and the fundamentals of drumming in a way thats easy to understand, who motivates and inspires there students, then why change?

I don't think it's a question of the teachers needing to know in order to teach, it's a question of them knowing what's going on in the drumming world and what their students may be exposed to.

It's like me knowing about blast beats. I can't do them, I can't imagine being asked to do them, I don't necessarily listen to music with them... but I know about what they are. And really, that's the extent for me. But, at least I know, and that adds to my knowledge of my chosen career.

Bermuda
 
Weird that this came up because I was just watching this video the other day and it deals with a lot of Daves questions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q81ZHLHDrQ


A few points from it, Igoe thinks that it's pointless teaching students stuff like snare drum solos if they won't actually have any real world need for it. He's glad to teach it if they do need that skill. He also says if teachers aren't using video technology with their students they are "dinosaurs".
 
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