Some thoughts on keeping time

I tell my students that their most important job as a drummer is to keep time.

My drum teacher has told me something similar. But he also stressed that with the band he is in that he has to make sure he is keeping time because he sets the tempo for the rest of the band and that the rest of the band members rely on him to be right on the beat.
 
I tell my students that their most important job as a drummer is to keep time.

it is every musicians responsibility to keep time

I'm not saying that this is what you are implying..... but there is nothing more irritating than people regurgitating this false commandment of music that the drummer is the time keeper of the band

why would anyone want to sit in a room full of musicians who are relying on one guy to keep time for them

that sounds absolutely horrific !

we as drummers should make a point to stop spreading this lie .... this false credo that feeds the self importance of poor musicians an creates lacking musicianship
 
it is every musicians responsibility to keep time

Everyone should definitely keep time, but keeping time with the drummer is a better way of putting it. Drums are rhythm based and make the beat of the music, along with the fact that they literally cut through more then any instrument. That's typically why everyone listens for the snare, to keep time, hence why the military uses it as well.
 
Everyone should definitely keep time, but keeping time with the drummer is a better way of putting it. Drums are rhythm based and make the beat of the music, along with the fact that they literally cut through more then any instrument. That's typically why everyone listens for the snare, to keep time, hence why the military uses it as well.


a better way of putting it?

I think not

so when I am in a situation where I feel to properly express what I am feeling at a certain point in a tune I need to completely stop for a few bars I should expect the whole band to fall apart ?

false

I'm sure I have said this enough around here for the past 3 years .... but I'll say it again

once the tune is counted off the time is in the room ..... and everyone behind an instrument in that room is responsible to ride that wave of time together

of course the players are keeping time together ... what else would they do ?

not only with the drummer... but with anyone else playing

when Tony Williams decided to stop mid chorus when he was with MIles .... something he loved to do .... Herbie, Ron , and whoever was taking a solo never missed a beat

in a marching band ..... does everything fall apart when the drum section stops?

time is everyones responsibility and relying on the drummer for your time is novice and quite frankly ridiculous...... there really is no two ways about it

any real musician knows this to be nothing but absolute fact
 
I agree, Tony. You want everyone to be able to function okay without having to be lead by the nose by a living metronome impersonator. Still, I do find I am relied on at times to provide clarity, especially when there's a malfunction - and especially after a malfunction by that bloody drummer :)

I remember an interview by Paul Motian where he said something to the effect that if the band has decent time then "I don't have to do shit". I find that idea freeing. Ringo was great at laying right out and letting the others carry the groove at strategic spots.
 
of course the players are keeping time together ... what else would they do ?

not only with the drummer... but with anyone else playing
Lol I seriously JUST said everyone is supposed to keep time, except it juat happens to be more important on the drummer's behalf.
 
I feel it's my responsibility to keep good time because that's my contribution to making the music feel good. But if others in the band are relying on me to keep time? That's horrible. Just awful. The music will never feel good in that situation.

I've talked about this before, but it's the difference between being locked in with a band where every musician is feeling the time in the same place, and a band that is just following the drummer. The first situation is where the music feels good, people are tapping their toes or getting up to dance; the second situation just sounds bad. To me, it feels like I'm dragging a corpse with me everywhere I go.

Count me among those who says every musician must have good time.
 
I agree, Tony. You want everyone to be able to function okay without having to be lead by the nose by a living metronome impersonator. Still, I do find I am relied on at times to provide clarity, especially when there's a malfunction - and especially after a malfunction by that bloody drummer :)

I remember an interview by Paul Motian where he said something to the effect that if the band has decent time then "I don't have to do shit". I find that idea freeing. Ringo was great at laying right out and letting the others carry the groove at strategic spots.

if I am in a jazz situation with high quality players and a tune gets counted off and I feel the best way to express myself at that point in time is to not play at all..... the band would carry on like nothing happened

there is nothing easier to do in the world for a drummer than to play with a band who knows it is everyones responsibility to keep time

if you feel you are relied on for time then I seriously suggest having a little chat with your bandmates about their responsibilities in the band, the confidence in their own time , and their ability to hold their own in a musical crisis

a musical crisis can turn into beautiful art when all involved understand their responsibilities
 
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it juat happens to be more important on the drummer's behalf.

and you would be 100% completely wrong

and saying things like "lol" discredit anything you say even more to me

time is the equal responsibility of anyone behind an instrument ..... if you believe otherwise than you have a bit to learn

and you will in time .... no pun intended
 
I'm honored to be the guy that gets to just "keep time". It's a privilege. Damn happy to do it sir. Keeping time works beautifully nearly everywhere. When in doubt, keep the time, that's what I say. My latest focus is not incorporating some new fill in the songs my band plays, it's playing what I already do, only with laser focus into feeling Every. Single. Backbeat. Every last one, front to back. Not just gliding over them. Actually making every backbeat an event unto itself and deftly placing it in the exact perfect spot, all night long. So it's more of a strong mental commitment to each and every single gosh darned beat. I'm loving my new focus, it's like my new goal for every song. The recording we made last night could be my best stuff to date, feel-wise.

I like this. I've been looking into groove more lately than fills and such. Been focusing on adding ghost notes and accents to really lay down the groove.
 
At the risk of regurgitating what Anthony and some others have already said, it's everyone's job to make the time feel happen.

In many cases, the group I play with often starts a song without me or I drop out for sections within the song. If it's the drummer's job to keep time - then who is responsible for it when I'm not playing??? The answer - everyone!

I will take Anthony's statement on step further about when the time starts. I think it's even before the count off. It starts when the person who is going to count the song off begins to feel where the count off needs to be at. So to me, the time starts before the song's even counted in.

Musicians who have bad time have a hard time playing with me and I do them.

I could elaborate more but I'll simply stop since I'll probably begin to offend some people.
 
At the risk of regurgitating what Anthony and some others have already said, it's everyone's job to make the time feel happen.

In many cases, the group I play with often starts a song without me or I drop out for sections within the song. If it's the drummer's job to keep time - then who is responsible for it when I'm not playing??? The answer - everyone!

I will take Anthony's statement on step further about when the time starts. I think it's even before the count off. It starts when the person who is going to count the song off begins to feel where the count off needs to be at. So to me, the time starts before the song's even counted in.

Musicians who have bad time have a hard time playing with me and I do them.

I could elaborate more but I'll simply stop since I'll probably begin to offend some people.


100% Dave ....... 100% and then some
 
I completely agree with the below, where in a professional band, it's everyone responsibilty to keep time.

In reality, in an amateur band, the others seem to rely on the drummer to keep time (I have just ran the idea by them yesterday that 'everyone should keep time' which was met with some disagreement,,,)

I know many of you reading this are professional musicians, that's why I'm higighting the 'amateur' aspect....

As a relative beginner (2 years in), I can play to a click or metronome just fine, however when playing with a live (amateur) band, I get 'pulled' out of time slightly... I know I should not but I guess this is a skill that's still work in progress. I always practice with a metronome on my own already and overall I have decent time.

What's also challenging, is the the band members don't like if I play to a metronome when we practice (which I am happy to do and we have tried a few times) - so this leaves me wondering:

What can I, the drummer, do to try to impove an amateur band's time?

(Other than the obvious: improve my own time, which I am working on)
 
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I've often thought that a band should be able to play and practice a song with out the drums, If and when they get that, then introduce the drums. It seems as tho it would teach them to hold it together on there own first rather using the drums as a crutch.

Wile time should be in the room. I view drums not as "the" time keeper but as "the creative subdivision of time", an adjunct to melody, which together make a complete song.
 
I have been drumming off and on for over 30 years, but it hasn't been full-time. I haven't been able to play and practice nearly as much as I should have over the years, but it probably took over 20 years before other musicians stopped complaining about my time keeping skills.
 
This topic reminds me of a Bruce Lee quote I saw referenced on this forum a while back. "A punch is just a punch, a kick is just a kick". Basically before he really understood martial arts, a punch was just a punch, kick is just a kick. As he got the technique, but not the art, he thought that a punch was more than a punch and a kick was more than a kick. As he got the technique, and understood the art, he realized that a punch was just a punch, a kick was just a kick, but that was everything. The fundamentals were the art.

I remember back when I started about 18 years ago, watching the drummer just keep time in the back seemed like a joke. "Anybody can do that. Why did I spend time learning the instrument just to keep time?" But now, I realize, that's what we do, we direct the time and flow. Drums is primarily a time and feel instrument. So following a song dead on the whole way through, with all the appropriate dynamics, changes, smooth transition fills, and overall awareness of the bus you're driving without "getting off the road" is incredibly challenging. People try to avoid it like it's a chore, but time, feel, and tone is the drums. That's what we do.
 
At the risk of regurgitating what Anthony and some others have already said, it's everyone's job to make the time feel happen.

Ain't that the truth. It's so much easier to play with musicians who are aware of timing, consciously, rather than just thinking they're good enough to fit in. Any group I've played with in the past 25-odd years (orchestras, chamber groups, jazz ensembles, rumba groups, bands, whatever) has always benefitted from musicians who keep their own timing and act as a unit, especially if the ship is starting to sink due to sound, acoustical, or technical challenges.

IMHO, every musician should spend a portion of each practice session improving their timing skills, and modern metronome apps make this easier by allowing a percentage of beats to drop randomly.
 
Ain't that the truth. It's so much easier to play with musicians who are aware of timing, consciously, rather than just thinking they're good enough to fit in. Any group I've played with in the past 25-odd years (orchestras, chamber groups, jazz ensembles, rumba groups, bands, whatever) has always benefitted from musicians who keep their own timing and act as a unit, especially if the ship is starting to sink due to sound, acoustical, or technical challenges.

IMHO, every musician should spend a portion of each practice session improving their timing skills, and modern metronome apps make this easier by allowing a percentage of beats to drop randomly.


The reality is tho, at levels other than professional, most musicians struggle with time.

Someone mentioned "Dave DiCenso or Vinnie Colaiuta 'take it out' in some wild fill"... yeah they do, but the musicians they're playing with (are most likely) proficient at keeping time, as in- they're pros.



OK, here is a question for you.

Can anybody learn to keep time well enough to be a good time keeping drummer ?
When I say "anybody" I mean everybody and anybody.
Or are some people unable to learn how to keep time.

Its clear 'some people' are more sensitive than others, meaning those more sensitive could be more susceptible to being influenced by another, and even go as far to say 'at risk' of being influenced.

Example: So Im a drummer, with what I believe to be good time and Im playing a song with the band and we're grooving along and we hit the chorus and all of a sudden the bass player gets excited and starts rushing the time/groove. Is being able to hold steady time going to change the way the bass player plays? Does my role automatically change from 'musician' in the band to 'babysitter'?

Its not the drummers responsibility to keep time for anyone. If the bass player (guitar, whoever) rushes, or is all over the place, its not the drummers fault, that bass player is then a musician who struggles with time.

If a guitar player is soloing and is counting on the drummer (or anyone else) to bring them in on the one, that guitar player then is a musician who struggles with time. So echoing the previous posts, it 'is' every musicians responsibility to keep time, their own time.

If one being a 'sensitive musician' feels the need to 'go with' those who struggle implying that's what needs to be done to keep the band sounding good/cohesive, there's your grey area. Bend, or not to bend? If the drummer bends too much, they'll then get blamed for not keeping the time in check. If they don't bend at all, they will get complimented for being solid, keeping good time.

When Im at the kit with a suspect band/musicians its all about me first, Im listening to myself 'first', the most. I listen to the other musicians out of the 'side of my ear' so to speak... Im listening to them, but Im not listening to them over myself, Im listening to how they play with me myself and I, never do I play babysitter, that's a role that will come back to burn you.

If you're lucky enough to be sensitive, you're naturally inclined to pick up signs (usually a vibe/feel) about who feels where the time is. The song for example if started too slow needs to be bumped up a little, or if too fast needs to slow down will get attention of other band mates, they'll communicate the need, this is a collective transmission, if someone's not tuned in, not on the bands frequency its going to be a long night/gig and probably no fun.

There's two frequencies being transmitted by each band member onstage, one is the bands collective frequency, the frequency used to transmit what's best for the group as a whole/band. The other is the ego frequency and generally used to transmit what's good for the transmitting musician. The two can overlap, but when one is using the ego freq more than the collective freq, static is soon to follow.

Being sensitive could be seen as a gift, being overly sensitive could be seen as a curse. Being insensitive is seen as unprofessional. If you're not particularly gifted, one 'can' develop ones awareness capabilities, enough so to get by/succeed, its called being professional.




I tell my students that their most important job as a drummer is to keep time.

To students I like to pose it as a question; Is it more important to be in time, or on time? gets them thinking about both instances.
 
Is that true? I don't know, it's a real question. How do symphony orchestras handle time? It seems to me they watch the partitions more than the chef d'orchestre, if they don't simply have their eyes closed to better concentrate. If many of these people have trouble keeping time, how can an amateur orchestra produce a decent concert? I would think/hope most musicians ARE able to keep time. You don't buy a violin just to fiddle with in your bedroom for a few years, then start to play in a bar to find out you can't keep time and blame it on the drummer. Would that make the difference? Do violinists do time keeping exercises?
 
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